Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi '18-19 Season Part II
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joestevens29
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- Apr 30, 2009
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Then maybe he should just send him to the AHL
That's really about the only way to get him in without putting someone on waivers.
To do that now would look pretty bad. Would have been ok with it 4 games ago. Give him some stuff to work on, have coaches work with him closely and then bring him back up, and see if he’s improved where needed.
I believe he'd already be an elite player in many different teams. In fact his numbers while playing at top top6 during his 2nd season were very good, but of course many fans don't see it that way. This doesn't mean he's ready as a player in every aspect, and that's more obvious at difficult times, but at his best he's played some excellent hockey.
He started his 2nd season strongly and nobody (except for McLellan) knows why he was demoted from the top6 at that time. Some fans are frustrated for different reasons and for some it's because he's stood out at his best, but hasn't been able to stay at that level for long enough. That inconcistency is not that unusual with young players and I believe a different kind of an attitude from the coach would've helped a lot. Whatever issues Pulju may have I believe it's mainly mental, at least there's no problems with his work ethic.
I'm sorry but he would be an elite player already if he was on any other team? Pulju has yet shown one single glimpse of elite level play. Not one.
50% Corsi, 48% SCF, 36% HDCF
He has an even Corsi but gives up way more high danger chances than the opponent.
It's your opinion and not a surprising one to me. Anyway, I guess it can be seen as a good sign if he's never shown a glimpse of elite level play but he's been seen (not you obviously but almost everyone else) as having a few terrific games and he's been the best goal scoring winger for most of the season
As always it depends on the point of view. His corsi% and fenwick% are 5th and 4th amongst the forwards, so if you count out the first line that doesn't look so negative to me. But I look from one angle and you from the opposite one, which is fine and I hope you feel the same about it.
My bad, thought I saw stats that showed he was on the plus side. He definitely lost the battle in his last couple games which may have tilted it worse than it was. Thanks for the correction.
I'm more looking at the scoring chances.It's your opinion and not a surprising one to me. Anyway, I guess it can be seen as a good sign if he's never shown a glimpse of elite level play but he's been seen (not you obviously but almost everyone else) as having a few terrific games and he's been the best goal scoring winger for most of the season
As always it depends on the point of view. His corsi% and fenwick% are 5th and 4th amongst the forwards, so if you count out the first line that doesn't look so negative to me. But I look from one angle and you from the opposite one, which is fine and I hope you feel the same about it.
He is 9th for forwards in Scoring Chances For % which would make him 3rd on a 3rd pairing. And he is dead last on High Danger Chances for by almost 2 percent.
With Pulju it's not the total amount of chances he is giving up, it's the high amount of Grade A chances that are given up when he is on the ice.
A wingers responsibility defensively usually doesn’t contribute to high quality scoring chances against. You’re also dealing with fairly small sample sizes. Not saying he can’t or shouldn’t be better, his few games with Drai were a ugly display of hockey by his line.
His numbers with Strome looked quite good. However they looked bad with everyone else, Draisaitl included. Also, everyone's possession numbers seem to leap up with Strome this year so it's hard to tell if him and Strome worked together or if Strome is just some possession saint. Stromes scoring chance percentage goes from 58% with Pulju to 65% without. (Pulju drops to 36 without Strome). The high danger chances are similar except Puljus number drops to 26% in the high danger category.
Strome has been better away from Pulju and Pulju has been substantially worse away from Strome
Last year. Pulju was 9th in chances for %, 10th for high danger, 9th for Corsi, 10th for Fenwick, 9th for goals for percentage.
His percentage healthily puts him as a 3rd liner the last season as well, however not one of our better ones.
Yeah Strome has been the definition of bad puck luck this year. He’s been really good. The little bit of time Puljujarvi got with Draisaitl was in games that Draisaitl was playing some terrible EV hockey, and you could tell they weren’t clicking well in the DZone or neutral zone together.
Seems odd that Todd was so insistent on playing Puljujarvi exclusively in the bottom 6 in preseason and said his plan was to have him with Strome, then he quickly changes it because Drai’s line was getting murdered at EV, then JP is the one who has the very short leash. Wish he would have left him with Strome.
I will note. Last year Pulju did have good numbers with McDavid however, his numbers with Draisaitl were pretty medicore and Draisaitls numbers were much better away from him.
So putting him with McDavid could make sense however, I think with the effort he isn't putting in right now, that's a terrible message to send to the team as THIS YEAR players who aren't putting the work and effort in are having messages sent left and right.
And before the Strome and Yamamoto haters come in, it's clearly not about offensive production but about play away from the puck and the defensive side of things.
So putting him with McDavid could make sense however, I think with the effort he isn't putting in right now, that's a terrible message to send to the team as THIS YEAR players who aren't putting the work and effort in are having messages sent left and right.
And before the Strome and Yamamoto haters come in, it's clearly not about offensive production but about play away from the puck and the defensive side of things.
We've talked about these things before. There are a lot of stats and some of them may not be good and often there's a reason in the player. But the less there are games+TOI the less meaning things were the occasions are low mean. But I'm not downplaying what you said. I haven't seen those stats, just paid attention to his corsis which were better than I expected at this situation. I mean they've been even better most of the time I've checked, but I thought they'd be lower this time. What kind of stats each of us bring and emphasize tells a lot about the way we look at the player.
I'm just hoping Puljujarvi would actually get a chance to show what he's got now, as there's going to be endless arguments about stats (which are small sample size in any case) and individual shifts. Sometimes that can be fruitful, but when it's done repeatedly between the few of us from different sides it can get boring quite easily. That's why I'm ready to leave this here from my part.
He came into camp in amazing shape and everyone noted he had worked on things that he was asked to work on. Yet he didn’t get a minute of top 6 time on preseason, that also doesn’t send a very good message. At the same time it’s hard to argue with what Rattie and MCDavid did in the preseason. I just think it would be a shame for the organization to completely write him off before giving him a real chance in the top 6. Hopefully he can work his way back up the depth chart because it only took a couple games for him to go from being promoted to the 2nd line to being benched for 4 games.
It also only took him two games after the great preseason to be dropped to the 4th line. I wouldn't be totally against that under some other cirmumstances, but the double standards have been an issue in McLellan's Oilers all the time. Anyone can feel however they like about Pulju, I even understand negative feelings to some extent, too, but I feel one has to be McLellan's brother or something if he hasn't noticed any problems with those double standards.
I feel McLellan has been better this year with holding all players accountable and sitting those who aren’t playing well. It does seem that Jesse’s leash is still the shortest. Could be that the plan was to only have him sit until the team lost a game, I’m betting even Todd didn’t think we’d be winning this many in a row. I support him in keeping a winning lineup rolling. I also didn’t mind him putting Caggiula back in as an exception to that rule once he got healthy, as I have loved the way Drake has played this season.
Jesse just needs to work his ass off in practice, and play well when he gets his chance. He might not get many more with the Oilers because both the coach and GM know that their jobs are on the line.
frag2
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- Mar 8, 2006
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Didn't JP prefer to start with Strome anyway? I mean, unless Strome is gonna, god forbid, become our 2C...
Yeah you may very well be right. I also understand he doesn't want to change the winning combination, although he did do some changes and they just didn't include Jesse. But McLellan has the right for that, and to be honest I haven't minded too much that the benching got longer under these circumstances. The situation is sad and that may worsen the chances for things to work out in the Oilers, though.
It's not like I never understand Todd, but I feel there's been far too many questionable moves earlier so I'd be very surprised if Pulju doesn't feel the coach is picking him out.
I believe he said he liked playing with Strome. I know that there have also been multiple interviews saying he wants to be an impact player and play on the top lines.
I’m betting JP would say he likes playing with anyone, and I’m sure some things still get lost in translation.
I honestly look at Chiasson right now
Started a game on the 4th line and looked great, he kept it up in the game, Draisaitls line wasn't generating and he was put there to try and spark it and he did.
It is very possible to have good games on lower lines and prove and earn your place. I feel that's what the team wants from him. They want him to put in the effort and play his game with anyone no matter where they in the lineup he plays.
Started a game on the 4th line and looked great, he kept it up in the game, Draisaitls line wasn't generating and he was put there to try and spark it and he did.
It is very possible to have good games on lower lines and prove and earn your place. I feel that's what the team wants from him. They want him to put in the effort and play his game with anyone no matter where they in the lineup he plays.
FlameChampion
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- Jul 13, 2011
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I dont think thats true. One of the finnish posters said that he was hoping that play with an impact player.
Jason Strudwick (from Jason Gregors) show I believe said that McDavid/Draisaitl didnt like to play with JP because they didnt know where he would be on the ice. So I believe TM tried to find a spot for JP on Stromes line. Who knows. Might not be true. Based on his lack of opportunities and reluctance to be put hin the top 6 to begin with, seems plausible to me. I will say that he has been disappointing this year though.
Not sure if he’s that type of player though.
He definitely struggles to assert himself and have his own identity on the ice.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hyman
Well you got it wrong. Chiasson has had next to nothing to do with the line doing better. Its was Rieder, not Chiasson, and almost anybody realizes that.
Chiasson has actually not been too good on that line. Passable, but pretty much of a plumber elevated. Last couple games Chiasson has not much going.
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