Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi '18-19 Season Part II

[nabob]

He was dreadful most of last season, has played one decent game this season. Every post you make just makes you look like a bigger fool if that’s even possible.

One decent game this season. Yeah you’re wrong there. Just another poster trying to throw shade on a kid after one game that wasn’t good.

 

[nabob]

Some analysis on Pulju's Jets game:

PETRO PRAXIS: Jesse Puljujarvi Forced His Promotion (Video Spotlight)

Yeah he was excellent in that game. Would have to be clueless to say he’s had one decent game all season.

 

[TheNumber4]

So you’ve seen him have 3 good games, 1 excellent game and 1 not so good game. Yet your only comments about him are negative. Not sure why questioning that makes me a target of all your pent up sadness.

Where did I mention how many games I thought he was good in and bad in? I saw him play amazing in 1 preseason game, it got me excited. I saw him disappear for 2 preseason games after that. I've seen him again most invisible this season, and when he's noticeable it's been wacky. Last year my impressions were that he's kind of clumsy. In any case, I have my thoughts about the player based on his PLAY and nothing else. If you want to pretend like a life long Oilers fan who hopes and prays that his team succeeds has a personal vendetta against the teams' 4th overall pick for no good reason, go ahead. Create that narrative in your head and raise your own blood pressure, I don't care. I'm done feeling like I have to justify my HONEST, NON-BIASED opinion of the player to you, cause I don't.

 

[nabob]

Where did I mention how many games I thought he was good in and bad in? I saw him play amazing in 1 preseason game, it got me excited. I saw him disappear for 2 preseason games after that. I've seen him again most invisible this season, and when he's noticeable it's been wacky. Last year my impressions were that he's kind of clumsy. In any case, I have my thoughts about the player based on his PLAY and nothing else. If you want to pretend like a life long Oilers fan who hopes and prays that his team succeeds has a personal vendetta against the teams' 4th overall pick for no good reason, go ahead. Create that narrative in your head and raise your own blood pressure, I don't care. I'm done feeling like I have to justify my HONEST, NON-BIASED opinion of the player to you, cause I don't.

Don’t think it’s my blood pressure that’s high. To say he’s had one good preseason game and then disappeared and been mostly invisible this season is laughable. He didn’t push the coaches hand to promote him in an attempt to get Drai going at EV by being invisible.

I know he looks big and awkward out there at times, like a puppy growing into his big feet or a colt with its legs. Neither of those would be Yak like, if he looked scatter brained, lost in his own zone, or like a bee buzzing around frantically then maybe. Most posters who compare him to Yak do so because Yak was a bust and they want to imply Puljujarvi is too.

 

[PulYou]

From Woodguy:







Woodguy on Twitter

Woodguy on Twitter

Woodguy on Twitter

Something to think about. I am not sure I agree with Woodguy, for I do think that after all "talked, talked and talked about" Pulju's confidence could be little fragile.

At the Bruins game he seemed to start the game strong, but then he makes a pass to a Bruins player at the very first shift and the whole line struggles to get the puck out of the d-zone. After the first shift his game had lost confidence. There were no goals against though, so he was not hurting the game either.

 

[talitintti]

Inconsistency still a huge issue. Occasionally shows flashes of excellence in individual games, but never seems to be able to put it together for an extended period of time.

I wouldn't mind giving him a look in the 1st line now that Rattie is injured.

 

[Soundwave]

I’m Finnish and I’m an Oiler fan, so I am a pessimist.

But I will repeat the same thing I have stated in every Pulju thread.

He doesn’t have the IQ or the finnishing skill to reach the same heights as many other touted prospects/Finns.

Just be happy with 50 points a season with Scooby Doo energy levels and you will be happy. Anything more and you will be disappointed.

With this Oil squad 40 points would be a really good result this year regardless of where he fits or doesn’t fit in the lineup.

Ps. I know you all like to hate Tmac, but I don’t think he will be all that effective on the PP.

I see him being more able to get points and goals from broken plays on which he can capitalize with his physical tools. Positioning, passing and knowing when to commence on kill mode are not his strengths.

Pulju feasts on crumbs, he doesn’t set the table nor can he cook.

Pss. To all the avid Finn fans who want to argue against me and ask for a reasoning. Please don’t. I have a life, at least sometimes.

It sucks, but I think you're probably right.

I see a lot of red flags in his game on the basis of his puck skill, his hockey IQ, and his finish.

I think the Columbus GM, who's Finnish, was really cold on Jesse for a reason, that always struck me as odd, but I can see now why he went with Dubois over Puljujarvi.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

I think there are some people who mostly see the negatives here and they seem to be the people who think they are unbiased. I don't think that anyone of us who like to focus more on the positives have said that Jesse can do no wrong.

Obviously he can and he has. It's just that the people who have a more negative view on the player seem to be seeing only the negative. There are lots of positives to be seen when you really focus on his play.

I'd rather discuss the player than take part in this mostly pointless metadiscussion about the posters - but, alas, here I am taking part in it.

 

[PulYou]

I think there are some people who mostly see the negatives here and they seem to be the people who think they are unbiased. I don't think that anyone of us who like to focus more on the positives have said that Jesse can do no wrong.

Obviously he can and he has. It's just that the people who have a more negative view on the player seem to be seeing only the negative. There are lots of positives to be seen when you really focus on his play.

I'd rather discuss the player than take part in this mostly pointless metadiscussion about the posters - but, alas, here I am taking part in it.

Me too

I try to do better...

 

[Drivesaitl]

To me Your take looks emotional as well as it is ad hominem "there is no critical thinking when it comes to Puljujarvi for some posters".

The word critical means 1) expressing adverse or disapproving comments or judgements, 2) expressing or involving an analysis of the merits and faults of a work of literature, music, or art. It goes both ways...

If one engages in a conversation and views the subject in another perspective, it is not a testimony of lacking critisism. And if one points out evidence based insight, it does not equal as emotional.

Accusing someone emotional and from lack of critisism, when not totally agreeing with someone's point of view, is not a constructive way to engage in conversation.

To me critical conversation is all about I endorse on this board and it is not a proof of being critical, when attacking the partisipants alleged qualities.

And I am not trying to hide it, I am a Puljujarvi fan. Yet I do knowlidge his game yesterday was no what I expect to see from him. It seemed like he was pressing and overly trying.

To draw a conclusive judgement from that is not intellectual though. Same goes with for example last year's slump Lucic was having. There was much more positive evidence from many years he has been around. And now it looks good.

Excellent post, and thanks. You did really well with that rebuttal and I think that you can see the picture quite clearly. That's what I enjoy about your posting is that agree or disagree it always feels respectful, considerate, and just like good, enjoyable discussion. Thanks for that as well.

Your post could be copy and pasted so many times on this or most any forum.

You've also been forthright, admit any bias, not pulling any punches. Although you consistently link confirmation bias sources....

 

[Drivesaitl]

I know a surefire way to get him going: make sure he gets the puck with speed at least a couple times in a game.

The Oilers breakout is pretty weird and the only player they ever try to pass the puck with speed is McDavid. The near side winger just stands there or backs into the neutral zone to deflect dump-ins.

That said, I think he played a pretty solid, albeit quiet game. I think he had about 10 minutes with Draisaitl and Rieder and the whole line didn't get much done offensively. The other three minutes he played was with different line combos... if Nuge hadn't touched that one cross-ice pass from McDavid he would've had a grade A chance to score. Still, I expect more from him.

I literally laughed out loud reading this. Because its so true. The 90's called, Jason Smith and Steve Staios want their bang it on the boards breakout back. So oldschool…

We have elite deluxe sports cars in McD and Drai at the ready and we have Canadian Tire mechanics doing the performance maintenance. We have a game plan not set at all to what we have and we have goalies that don't play the puck well and D that don't play the puck well. Our transition game is a confusing adventure. Its keystone cops whenever McD is not on ice just to hit warp drive. McD is like a cheat code. Just erases most of our bad schemes. But of course only when he's on the ice.

When he's not the scheme is either "pass it to Draisaitl everytime" even when he's double teamed, or if neither Connor or Drai just get it out, bang it out, bang a gong, get it on.

 

[GameChanger]

This is severely expressed though. From my perspective (and its only mine) the supporters here have been respectful, and also not one topic posters and posting on other players as well. This, to me, is very unlike the past Omarkism and related chicanery we have seen in the past on this board from one player supporters. Agree or disagree I have found the discussion here overall at least doable. Theres been respectful comment, point/counterpoint, disagreement, but very cordial for the most part.

Pulju should be playing better than this but the coaching in the last game was just absolutely bizarre. Both Pulju and Draisaitl needed memos on who they would be playing with on any given shift. How does either get traction with zero continuity? Most players suffer with this. Most players suffer when exposed to this.

I'll be flat out with this as well, and its only one game, but Pulju played better than Laine in the Winnipeg game. Small blessings.

I think the dial has been altered and that Pulju is not as good as would be hoped for but he has some tools that would be quite helpful when he more consistently puts his NHL game together. Draisaitl, also, is not the easiest player to work off of. He plays a pretty cerebral offensive game. But still Pulju gets it more than the players we've seen on Drai's line.

A great post from you, thanks. We can have different views, sometimes very different and sometimes not much at all, but it can be done with respect. I actually feel in general we've handled this Jesse conversation quite well. There's been some disputes, even bad ones, but almost all of us have found ways to show our respect towards each other. I feel there's been some growing in most or even all of us, too, which is not a bad thing because as human beings we can never be perfect. Boy that was some pretty serious emotional ***t from me

 

[Drivesaitl]

A great post from you, thanks. We can have different views, sometimes very different and sometimes not much at all, but it can be done with respect. I actually feel in general we've handled this Jesse conversation quite well. There's been some disputes, even bad ones, but almost all of us have found ways to show our respect towards each other. I feel there's been some growing in most or even all of us, too, which is not a bad thing because as human beings we can never be perfect. Boy that was some pretty serious emotional ***t from me

Thanks man. I deserve credo for posting still in Euro time zone. Trying to do my part... I'm still on some whacked out clock and I never even went on the Eurotrip unlike the Oilers...

haha. I get insomnia. I post at the most unusual times sometimes. Started at 4am on a Saturday. That is whacked. its amazing if I make any sense at this time frame.

But yeah, I've enjoyed the exchanges even in disagreement. This thread has been better conducted than any here.

 

[GameChanger]

Now back to defending Jesse I will judge his performance in the top6 when he actually has solid, offensive linemates for at least a few whole games. Line shuffling is usually not a good thing for younger players and there's some reasons why I expect Jesse to suffer more than some others.

Fortunately we've seen some brilliant games as glimpses, so we know it's possible at this level, too. Considering his level as a junior I still think the development part hasn't been optimal and that the lack of proper PP time and consistent top6 time seriously affetcs his stats. See how pretty similar prospects like Rantanen, Aho, Laine, Dubois, Matthews, Tkatchuk and Kapanen are doing in the top6 spots.

Unfortunately Puljujarvi's development isn't at a stage where he could perform at that level no matter what, so he needs help from the coaches. I would say three things would help enormously, and then we could evaluate what he's got to offer:

1. A bit of consistent time with a good offensive center (McDavid, Drai or possibly Nuge), with the TOI of at least around 15 minutes.

2. Some reassurance from the coach that he can push more for his own offensive game without fearing mistakes too much. I hope there's finally a bit more leash, but wasn't excited about the public comment from TM a couple of games ago.

3. PP usage with a good center (who can find him) at his own shooter's place. I believe this would do a lot of good mentally.

 

[PulYou]

Excellent post, and thanks. You did really well with that rebuttal and I think that you can see the picture quite clearly. That's what I enjoy about your posting is that agree or disagree it always feels respectful, considerate, and just like good, enjoyable discussion. Thanks for that as well.

Your post could be copy and pasted so many times on this or most any forum.

You've also been forthright, admit any bias, not pulling any punches. Although you consistently link confirmation bias sources....

Thank You Drivesaitl. I've grown to like and respect You and Your takes as well.

One does not have to agree on everything. If we did, there was no conversation. And because "been around for awhile" meaning I am not a teenager any more, I am just starting to understand how limited our perception can be.

So I try to appreciate when ever there is someone who knows better or has some perspective I was not able to see myself or at least I would like to do so...

And biased source - You can expect some more from me, I already have one in mind...

 

[GameChanger]

Thanks man. I deserve credo for posting still in Euro time zone. Trying to do my part... I'm still on some whacked out clock and I never even went on the Eurotrip unlike the Oilers...

haha. I get insomnia. I post at the most unusual times sometimes. Started at 4am on a Saturday. That is whacked. its amazing if I make any sense at this time frame.

But yeah, I've enjoyed the exchanges even in disagreement. This thread has been better conducted than any here.

Oh, you're actually quite a guerilla to stay up that late. I don't know if you use that saying in English but you get my point. I have some insomnia problems as well, but it's much better nowadays. For me Gaba and melatonin help enourmously (taken just before going to bed) and I've noticed the best way to delay the onset of sleep is to use computers or mobile devices

So for me the problem is if the Oilers have played and I wake up in the middle of the night I can't resist opening the laptop, and that means I won't be able to fall back to sleep for hours. Watching the games is another issue, but this season I select those days carefully or watch the games afterwards.

 

[PulYou]

From Lowetide's blog writer calling himself as armchairgm answering to jtblack:

ARMCHAIRGM says:
October 19, 2018 at 12:51 pm

jtblack: We often use Pastrnak, Nylander and Ratanen as some of JP’s comparables. Well, we can stop doing that now.

Points/60 with skilled centers (TOI together)

DRAFT +1

Rantanen w/ MacKinnon: 0.00 (0:43)
Rantanen w/ Duchene: 0.00 (29:09)
Pastrnak w/ Bergeron: 1.31 (45:49)
Pastrnak w/ Krejci: 2.55 (141:15)
Nylander: NO NHL TOI
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 2.86 (84:01)
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 1.67 (107:28)

Nylander didn’t even make the NHL, Puljujarvi’s numbers were very good in limited minutes.

DRAFT +2
Rantanen w/ MacKinnon: 1.66 (684:55)
Rantanen w/ Duchene: 0.86 (350:34)
Pastrnak w/ Bergeron: 1.96 (61:19)
Pastrnak w/ Krejci: 2.04 (499:06)
Nylander w/ Kadri: 0.00 (4:57)
Nylander w/ Bozak: 0.00 (1.45)
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: 1.87 (256:57)
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: 2.37 (101:22)
Nylander is still at zero.

Puljujarvi’s numbers are close to Pastrnak’s, except TOI. Rantanen, whose production is well below Puljujarvi’s, is getting over 1000 minutes with skill centers! Opportunity is everything here.

DRAFT +3

Rantanen w/ MacKinnon: 2.28 (946:52)
Rantanen w/ Duchene: 0.00 (12:48)
Pastrnak w/ Bergeron: 2.22 (541:19)
Pastrnak w/ Krejci: 1.54 (429:40)
Nylander w/ Kadri: 2.17 (360:06)
Nylander w/ Matthews: 1.82 (624:42)
Puljujarvi w/ McDavid: TBD
Puljujarvi w/ Draisaitl: TBD

So those 1000 minutes Rantanen got in the top-6 paid off the next year, he’s now scoring at a 1st line pace. Pastrnak and Nylander are doing well too. Note, however, that NONE of these players are scoring better in draft+3 than Puljujarvi did in draft+2.

Puljujarvi is at the top of the class. In fact, even JP’s draft+1 results are right up there. He just lacks opportunity.

And the source

Lowetide.ca | New Sensation

 

[TaroTsujimoto]

I hate to say it but yeah I don't see a star player in him. Usually by year 3 a guy who is going to be a star in the league is showing you quite a lot.

It sucks because he was the consensus pick going by the board, but we really needed a much better player with that no.4 pick than this.

When we "go by the book" we get screwed when we don't, we get screwed (skipping on Barzal who probably was the consensus pick at 16).

It's like we always end up turning right when we should turn left and turn left when ever we should turn right.

LOL, well said. You're right, great players show their class from very early on in their NHL careers. Still holding out hope though that Jesse can be a 40 point player on the strength of his physical tools.

I had a bad feeling about the pick when a FINNISH GM passed over Jesse.

 

[Aerrol]

From an Athletic article today giving interesting tidbits on 'tells' in the NHL:

Former NHLer on when a bubble player is in or out of the lineup — “I could always tell when a player was going to be out of the lineup or in the lineup. There was this time when we had a top-six forward injured and we had a kid that was a consistent healthy scratch. Once that (top-six) player was injured, the coach was really pumping him (the bubble player) up; you’d think the kid was his best friend. And sure enough, the kid was in the next game. Then seven, eight, nine games would go by and there was a practice where he couldn’t do anything right and the coach was all over him. He sat next to me and when he came into the locker room, he said, ‘I don’t understand. Why is he so hard on me?’ I told him, ‘You’re gonna be out of the lineup. That player is healthy and so he’s trying to make himself feel better about taking you out.’ Ironically, as I said that, the coach walked by. He wasn’t too happy I was telling him this.”

It'd be nicer to have a name to the source but a great example of how coaches can be ridiculous and screw with young players' confidence. It's bizarre to me to see so much denial of the coach's and organization as a whole's responsibility for player development. It's a two way street but time and time again I see nonsense like 'oh if X prospect was good they'd force the issue'... That's garbage. Only shit organizations live by that idea - all the best ones have obvious and detailed game plans for developing all their top prospects.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Enough of the bickering crap or it will result in thread bans at minimum.

 

[Risingwind]

I think Jesse didn’t realize how much time he had on the play. A more veteran player probably would have taken that extra second on not rushed the pass. Nurse did the same on his one bad turnover that led to the Rieder penalty in the 3rd. Larsson has pinched and Rieder “covered” but he wasn’t in the spot where Larsson would have been, so Nurses pass went to no one. If he would have eaten the puck and pinned it along the boards it would have been a safer play. Unfortunately even the best players have the odd mistake.

In the 3rd period I thought the team started to play a bit better against the Bruins’ forecheck. If that same situation happened then, I believe he would have held on to the puck and made a safer decision. I agree that a lot of Oilers suffer from these sorts of brain farts, and in general younger players tend to make more errors. If JP gets singled out and punished for this then I think they are just playing to lose. I don’t have any more words in that case.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

He is getting his chance right now, he has to make something of it to have the coach keep him there. Now's your time to shine kid!

 

[agent082]

He is getting his chance right now, he has to make something of it to have the coach keep him there. Now's your time to shine kid!

+/- 0 and a victory was a good start.

 

[Risingwind]

I hate to say it but yeah I don't see a star player in him. Usually by year 3 a guy who is going to be a star in the league is showing you quite a lot.

Scheifle and Wheeler said hi. Especially Scheifle. If the Jets traded him for a 3rd at that point it would be reminiscent of several Oiler trades that don’t need to be listed here.

 

[GameChanger]

I just took a look at some stats and actually Puljujarvi isn't doing that badly in those. He's at least in the top 6 of the forwards in points/60, esp/60, corsis, fenwicks and +-.

He can do better and anyway it's just 5 games, but it's quite nice that even though he hasn't started the season as strongly as I hoped he's doing alright in the stats. Interesting to see where his game will develop if he'll be allowed to play whole games in the top6.