Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi | His Mouth Contain His Tongue Only When He Eats Pizza

[PulYou]

But it remains that Pulju hasn't been these things or exhibited these things much, or at all in the last 2 seasons of his hockey life. Which happens to have taken place here, as an Oiler. I say this because I sometimes wonder if theres any time statute around comments on what a player "is".

The difficulty for Pulju will be that the last time he was feeling like owning hockey, or on top of things was likely 3 seasons ago in Finland. So that he faces the same extreme challenges of any highly touted player that has had ample difficulty rising up at this level.

Not saying it doesn't happen this year, and I'm never saying it won't happen, but that it hasn't. His job is a lot harder now trying to find steam that it would have been 2 seasons ago.

To me this only proves a failure from McLellan & co in developing Pulju...

 

[Aerchon]

Puju should just start developing chemistry with McDavid now. They're going to be playing together for the following 6 years.

First off, a disclaimer. This is not directed at you, I am just using your post as an example.

There are two things that I believe many people overlook or don't understand about the nhl. Cap management, and for lack of a better way to explain it, two way play.

It's very unfortunate for the game but it's just a painful truth. You can not think of players, line combinations, or the team without factoring how it effects the cap. We live in a cap world.

The numbers that I have seen tossed around easily suggest JP would be great with McDavid. JPs play on the ice at 19 from my eye test is already as good or better than Rattie or many XXX bargain bin wingers. If JP played with McDavid and got premium PP time I have little doubt he would succeed in getting a bunch of points.

However getting a bunch of points does not equate to winning. At its simplest most basic level each player/the team has to get more goals than they give up. Obviously it's 100 times more complicated than that but that is a simple summary. You can score 100 goals but if you cheat for that offense regularly and get 200 goals against you will obviously lose. While that 100 goals is certainly impressive and an incredible feat that player would unequivocally suck. Said 100 goal scoring slurper would get paid very well since nhl salaries are primarily based off points.

One of the biggest reasons I really liked the Chiarelli hire was because the Bruins typically develop thier players on the third line. The reason for doing that is to both teach a two way game and manage the cap.

I am a big JP fan and have not seen anything that makes me think he will bust like say Yak. I've seen enough positives that I believe he will eventually be a solid 2 way top 6 winger. While he has not excelled to a Mathews or Liane level I still would not be surprised if he developed into a legit star in his own right.

However. If he does reach star status, especially sooner rather than later, we will not be able to afford him.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, and Lucic all eat up so much cap space the top 6 will always HAVE to have 2 bargain bin wingers you round it out.

Perfect world XXX Strome Puliarvi becomes a premium 3rd line. That means an inflated goal differential. The actual amount of points they get is irrelevant. If everyone on that third line gets 30 points 5v5 and are all +10 or better while playing average or higher quality competition. THAT would be a great third line.

We need a good third line to win. Developing JP in that role to start his young career is a great thing for our team and cap management. Perfect world JP gets second PP time with success and has a solid 3rd production (35 to 40 points is a very good 3rd line production). He was on pace for 15 goals 25 points last year in that role with no PP time. Signs a very reasonable long term deal. After signing said deal can be used up and down the line up, on the top PP etc but we will always need a good third line. Having him and Strome as our mainstays on the third line sounds awesome to me. I really like both those players.

Nuge McDavid XXX
Lucic Draisaitl XXX
XXX Strome Puliarvi
XXX Kharia XXX

In terms of cap management and two way play this is a very good way to move forward over the next 5 years.

Lucic isn't living up to his role at the moment but in today's NHL 6 million isn't outrageous. If he can regain even just most of what he typically can bring he will be worth his cap. Some people don't like Strome but as third liners goes he is a young solid 2 way right shooting center that puts up solid third line numbers.

Very comfortable moving forward with that core of forwards. I really don't understand why anyone would really have concerns about our forward group now or the future. So many intriguing wingers coming up and wingers are traditionally the easiest spot to fill. We are set for the majority of a decade where it really matters for centers.

The defense and goaltending... Now that's where questions abound and we need some serious development or luck to feel truly comfortable moving forward. If Sekera wasn't injured i would not be worried but he is and that leaves a big hole.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

First off, a disclaimer. This is not directed at you, I am just using your post as an example.

There are two things that I believe many people overlook or don't understand about the nhl. Cap management, and for lack of a better way to explain it, two way play.

It's very unfortunate for the game but it's just a painful truth. You can not think of players, line combinations, or the team without factoring how it effects the cap. We live in a cap world.

The numbers that I have seen tossed around easily suggest JP would be great with McDavid. JPs play on the ice at 19 from my eye test is already as good or better than Rattie or many XXX bargain bin wingers. If JP played with McDavid and got premium PP time I have little doubt he would succeed in getting a bunch of points.

However getting a bunch of points does not equate to winning. At its simplest most basic level each player/the team has to get more goals than they give up. Obviously it's 100 times more complicated than that but that is a simple summary. You can score 100 goals but if you cheat for that offense regularly and get 200 goals against you will obviously lose. While that 100 goals is certainly impressive and an incredible feat that player would unequivocally suck. Said 100 goal scoring slurper would get paid very well since nhl salaries are primarily based off points.

One of the biggest reasons I really liked the Chiarelli hire was because the Bruins typically develop thier players on the third line. The reason for doing that is to both teach a two way game and manage the cap.

I am a big JP fan and have not seen anything that makes me think he will bust like say Yak. I've seen enough positives that I believe he will eventually be a solid 2 way top 6 winger. While he has not excelled to a Mathews or Liane level I still would not be surprised if he developed into a legit star in his own right.

However. If he does reach star status, especially sooner rather than later, we will not be able to afford him.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, and Lucic all eat up so much cap space the top 6 will always HAVE to have 2 bargain bin wingers you round it out.

Perfect world XXX Strome Puliarvi becomes a premium 3rd line. That means an inflated goal differential. The actual amount of points they get is irrelevant. If everyone on that third line gets 30 points 5v5 and are all +10 or better while playing average or higher quality competition. THAT would be a great third line.

We need a good third line to win. Developing JP in that role to start his young career is a great thing for our team and cap management. Perfect world JP gets second PP time with success and has a solid 3rd production (35 to 40 points is a very good 3rd line production). He was on pace for 15 goals 25 points last year in that role with no PP time. Signs a very reasonable long term deal. After signing said deal can be used up and down the line up, on the top PP etc but we will always need a good third line. Having him and Strome as our mainstays on the third line sounds awesome to me. I really like both those players.

Nuge McDavid XXX
Lucic Draisaitl XXX
XXX Strome Puliarvi
XXX Kharia XXX

In terms of cap management and two way play this is a very good way to move forward over the next 5 years.

Lucic isn't living up to his role at the moment but in today's NHL 6 million isn't outrageous. If he can regain even just most of what he typically can bring he will be worth his cap. Some people don't like Strome but as third liners goes he is a young solid 2 way right shooting center that puts up solid third line numbers.

Very comfortable moving forward with that core of forwards. I really don't understand why anyone would really have concerns about our forward group now or the future. So many intriguing wingers coming up and wingers are traditionally the easiest spot to fill. We are set for the majority of a decade where it really matters for centers.

The defense and goaltending... Now that's where questions abound and we need some serious development or luck to feel truly comfortable moving forward. If Sekera wasn't injured i would not be worried but he is and that leaves a big hole.

I don't agree with all the points you're making, but I appreciate a well-thought-out post.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Khaira and Strome are hardly chopped liver. Jesse will start out without much checking at all as the main defensive focus will be on Connor's and Drai's lines. Jesse will have free reign to create and score. If he does it I have no doubt that he will get bumped up in the lineup. I just hope that he gets PP opportunities on the top unit.

 

[Drivesaitl]

First off, a disclaimer. This is not directed at you, I am just using your post as an example.

There are two things that I believe many people overlook or don't understand about the nhl. Cap management, and for lack of a better way to explain it, two way play.

It's very unfortunate for the game but it's just a painful truth. You can not think of players, line combinations, or the team without factoring how it effects the cap. We live in a cap world.

The numbers that I have seen tossed around easily suggest JP would be great with McDavid. JPs play on the ice at 19 from my eye test is already as good or better than Rattie or many XXX bargain bin wingers. If JP played with McDavid and got premium PP time I have little doubt he would succeed in getting a bunch of points.

However getting a bunch of points does not equate to winning. At its simplest most basic level each player/the team has to get more goals than they give up. Obviously it's 100 times more complicated than that but that is a simple summary. You can score 100 goals but if you cheat for that offense regularly and get 200 goals against you will obviously lose. While that 100 goals is certainly impressive and an incredible feat that player would unequivocally suck. Said 100 goal scoring slurper would get paid very well since nhl salaries are primarily based off points.

One of the biggest reasons I really liked the Chiarelli hire was because the Bruins typically develop thier players on the third line. The reason for doing that is to both teach a two way game and manage the cap.

I am a big JP fan and have not seen anything that makes me think he will bust like say Yak. I've seen enough positives that I believe he will eventually be a solid 2 way top 6 winger. While he has not excelled to a Mathews or Liane level I still would not be surprised if he developed into a legit star in his own right.

However. If he does reach star status, especially sooner rather than later, we will not be able to afford him.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, and Lucic all eat up so much cap space the top 6 will always HAVE to have 2 bargain bin wingers you round it out.

Perfect world XXX Strome Puliarvi becomes a premium 3rd line. That means an inflated goal differential. The actual amount of points they get is irrelevant. If everyone on that third line gets 30 points 5v5 and are all +10 or better while playing average or higher quality competition. THAT would be a great third line.

We need a good third line to win. Developing JP in that role to start his young career is a great thing for our team and cap management. Perfect world JP gets second PP time with success and has a solid 3rd production (35 to 40 points is a very good 3rd line production). He was on pace for 15 goals 25 points last year in that role with no PP time. Signs a very reasonable long term deal. After signing said deal can be used up and down the line up, on the top PP etc but we will always need a good third line. Having him and Strome as our mainstays on the third line sounds awesome to me. I really like both those players.

Nuge McDavid XXX
Lucic Draisaitl XXX
XXX Strome Puliarvi
XXX Kharia XXX

In terms of cap management and two way play this is a very good way to move forward over the next 5 years.

Lucic isn't living up to his role at the moment but in today's NHL 6 million isn't outrageous. If he can regain even just most of what he typically can bring he will be worth his cap. Some people don't like Strome but as third liners goes he is a young solid 2 way right shooting center that puts up solid third line numbers.

Very comfortable moving forward with that core of forwards. I really don't understand why anyone would really have concerns about our forward group now or the future. So many intriguing wingers coming up and wingers are traditionally the easiest spot to fill. We are set for the majority of a decade where it really matters for centers.

The defense and goaltending... Now that's where questions abound and we need some serious development or luck to feel truly comfortable moving forward. If Sekera wasn't injured i would not be worried but he is and that leaves a big hole.

Excellent post, you have outdone yourself here. This being a side that doesn't get looked at either enough.

Indeed, if I could go on, the Oilers already made that mistake with Draisaitl of elevating their own next contract outcome with that player. This is one of the dangers of rotating in highly touted players with the best player in the world. The reality is the Oilers can't keep doing that and manage their cap situation. This is something that comes to my mind once in awhile but you explained it breathtakingly. Its a pleasure to read posts like this.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If Jesse has a solid year on the 3rd line like 20-20-40ish we can bridge him or sign him on a reasonable deal longer term. If he goes 30-30 with Connor, we're looking at at least $6 million AAV.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

As HockeyHistorian wrote, totally aggree with him. And to @Burnt Biscuits - You may got it conserning Bouchard, but in my opionion, You don't have a clue when assessing Pulju...

I think you like most fans on here, take an overly optimistic outlook on a young player with promise and lack the ability to objectively evaluate, it also seems that you are much fonder of Pulju than even your average Oiler fan. Also for someone who "lacks" the ability to assess Pulju, I called it well in advance of the draft that he was a significant notch below Laine, when the majority opinion was the two were very close, like the 2A and 2B in the draft, with some outliers even arguing that he was even superior to Laine. I also called his rather pedestrian rookie and sophomore seasons, where others were penciling him in for 45-50+ points or more. Much like Yakupov before him, many in Pulju's camp don't want to rest any blame with the player himself and instead outwardly project all blame onto the coaching staff.

To me this is the first season, I actually have hopes that Pulju can contribute in a fairly noticeable and positive fashion. I'm hopeful that Pulju is now a 20G 20A guy, but I'll have to downgrade or upgrade that projection based on he plays in the pre-season.

 

[guymez]

I think you like most fans on here, take an overly optimistic outlook on a young player with promise and lack the ability to objectively evaluate, it also seems that you are much fonder of Pulju than even your average Oiler fan. Also for someone who "lacks" the ability to assess Pulju, I called it well in advance of the draft that he was a significant notch below Laine, when the majority opinion was the two were very close, like the 2A and 2B in the draft, with some outliers even arguing that he was even superior to Laine. I also called his rather pedestrian rookie and sophomore seasons, where others were penciling him in for 45-50+ points or more. Much like Yakupov before him, many in Pulju's camp don't want to rest any blame with the player himself and instead outwardly project all blame onto the coaching staff.

To me this is the first season, I actually have hopes that Pulju can contribute in a fairly noticeable and positive fashion. I'm hopeful that Pulju is now a 20G 20A guy, but I'll have to downgrade or upgrade that projection based on he plays in the pre-season.

Here is the problem as I see it when a poster is a bigger fan of the player than he is of the team. Its too easy to see everything through a lens that only looks for blame outside of the player.
Its a lot like the Yak days on this board in that regard. The emotional attachment to the player clouds good judgment.

The ONLY justifiable criticism that I can see with how Jesse has been handled is the pack of PP time. Outside of that Jesse's situation is entirely Jesse's fault.
Its time for Jesse to man up....make something happen. Force the coaches to play him higher up in the lineup.

The Laine comp is nothing but wishful thinking. Laine was NHL ready...Jesse wasnt.
Laine was able to help his team win games right away...Jesse wasnt even close to doing that in his first or 2nd season.

Jesse can still be a valuable player but the Laine comp BS has to end. Its just not supportable.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

It's true that I mainly follow the Oilers because of Pulju, but that's only because I think he is a special player. There are countless players who have deserved more of a chance than they did and their careers dwindled because of poor management.

I still feel that Laine and Pulju are essentially same level prospects - Laine just has one weapon that has worked right from the start - his shot. Pulju, however, is a much better 2-way player and forechecker.

I know the facts, but I've watched both players for a long time. The biggest difference I see is their deployment.

 

[Nate070]

That6n

It's true that I mainly follow the Oilers because of Pulju, but that's only because I think he is a special player. There are countless players who have deserved more of a chance than they did and their careers dwindled because of poor management.

I still feel that Laine and Pulju are essentially same level prospects - Laine just has one weapon that has worked right from the start - his shot. Pulju, however, is a much better 2-way player and forechecker.

I know the facts, but I've watched both players for a long time. The biggest difference I see is their deployment.

That's not true at all

 

[GameChanger]

Here is the problem as I see it when a poster is a bigger fan of the player than he is of the team. Its too easy to see everything through a lens that only looks for blame outside of the player.
Its a lot like the Yak days on this board in that regard. The emotional attachment to the player clouds good judgment.

The ONLY justifiable criticism that I can see with how Jesse has been handled is the pack of PP time. Outside of that Jesse's situation is entirely Jesse's fault.
Its time for Jesse to man up....make something happen. Force the coaches to play him higher up in the lineup.

I see your point and in many cases I'd agree with you, maybe a bit in this one, too. However, I have to say some fans have also forgotten or neglect some of the things that must have hurt Jesse's development.

And when it comes to the PP usage being the only justifiable criticism... It's fine as your opinion but I really don't think you're right in this case. At least outside the stats there's no one and only truth, but there's been several cases where some 90% of the writers have felt strongly Jesse hasn't been treated properly. So no, it's not just the fans of Jesse who have felt like that.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

That6n

That's not true at all

My feelings are true. The rest is up for debate.

 

[Bank Shot]

It's true that I mainly follow the Oilers because of Pulju, but that's only because I think he is a special player. There are countless players who have deserved more of a chance than they did and their careers dwindled because of poor management.

Do you really think so?

I think anyone that gets drafted top ten in an NHL draft gets way more chances than they earn.

I think anyone that gets drafted top ten and fails to make it as a full time NHLer just lacks whatever it takes.

There are tonnes of stories about great players that started on the 4th line with minimal ice time and worked their way up. Seems like most of the instances I see of fans complaining about prospect's being ruined its because they aren't being given cherry minutes.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

Not saying Pulju = Laine, but simple deployment stat showing poor usage and development tactics:

Laine

2016-17
GP 73 PPTOI 197.8 Minutes

2017-18
GP 82 PPTOI 246.6 Minutes

Puljujarvi

2016-17
GP 28 PPTOI 22.6 Minutes

2017-18
GP 65 PPTOI 48.3 Minutes

I think the whole "earn your PP time" argument is trash as well.
You want weapons like a great shot and one timer on a PP, not a grinder like Caggiula whiffing on every pass (only on there because hey nice forecheck hustle there in practice, Drake).

Laine's success from that PP spot in his draft year was immediately molded into an NHL plan to utilize that skill.
Pulju's success from that PP spot in his draft year was completely ignored and not deployed at the NHL level with passers available like Connor and Drai.

Our development always places more emphasis on what a player cannot do first instead of helping them translate the skills that they excel at to the NHL level. Too often trying to turn players into something they either are not or they need more time and experience before making it a part of their more complete game later in their experience. The first thing you do with a player like Pulju to build his confidence? Make him believe that left half wall shot is going to be a big part of his success. But we don't see him there ever. Even the PP time he gets, he's in the bumper position completely covered while our perimeter passing can't get shots through.

Now I'm very curious to see what Viveiros will do with the PP units this year. But I doubt anyone can say what we saw on the PP last year was competent. Jesse's absence from it was not the be all killer of course, but not even trying him is at the very least questionable usage.

 

[guymez]

I see your point and in many cases I'd agree with you, maybe a bit in this one, too. However, I have to say some fans have also forgotten or neglect some of the things that must have hurt Jesse's development.

And when it comes to the PP usage being the only justifiable criticism... It's fine as your opinion but I really don't think you're right in this case. At least outside the stats there's no one and only truth, but there's been several cases where some 90% of the writers have felt strongly Jesse hasn't been treated properly. So no, it's not just the fans of Jesse who have felt like that.

Fair enough we disagree.

In your mind what is it that the team did incorrectly with Jesse?

 

[Aerrol]

Not saying Pulju = Laine, but simple deployment stat showing poor usage and development tactics:

Laine

2016-17
GP 73 PPTOI 197.8 Minutes

2017-18
GP 82 PPTOI 246.6 Minutes

Puljujarvi

2016-17
GP 28 PPTOI 22.6 Minutes

2017-18
GP 65 PPTOI 48.3 Minutes

I think the whole "earn your PP time" argument is trash as well.
You want weapons like a great shot and one timer on a PP, not a grinder like Caggiula whiffing on every pass (only on there because hey nice forecheck hustle there in practice, Drake).

Laine's success from that PP spot in his draft year was immediately molded into an NHL plan to utilize that skill.
Pulju's success from that PP spot in his draft year was completely ignored and not deployed at the NHL level with passers available like Connor and Drai.

Our development always places more emphasis on what a player cannot do first instead of helping them translate the skills that they excel at to the NHL level. Too often trying to turn players into something they either are not or they need more time and experience before making it a part of their more complete game later in their experience. The first thing you do with a player like Pulju to build his confidence? Make him believe that left half wall shot is going to be a big part of his success. But we don't see him there ever. Even the PP time he gets, he's in the bumper position completely covered while our perimeter passing can't get shots through.

Now I'm very curious to see what Viveiros will do with the PP units this year. But I doubt anyone can say what we saw on the PP last year was competent. Jesse's absence from it was not the be all killer of course, but not even trying him is at the very least questionable usage.

Excellent post.

"Our development always places more emphasis on what a player cannot do first instead of helping them translate the skills that they excel at to the NHL level."

This in particular has been a massive problem for as long as I've been a fan.

 

[Barrsy]

Do you really think so?

I think anyone that gets drafted top ten in an NHL draft gets way more chances than they earn.

I think anyone that gets drafted top ten and fails to make it as a full time NHLer just lacks whatever it takes.

There are tonnes of stories about great players that started on the 4th line with minimal ice time and worked their way up. Seems like most of the instances I see of fans complaining about prospect's being ruined its because they aren't being given cherry minutes.

This is bang on. The likes of Yak have no excuses. None.
If Jesse doesn't become a 1st/2nd liner, its on 1 guy.

 

[Mr Positive]

Not saying Pulju = Laine, but simple deployment stat showing poor usage and development tactics:

Laine

2016-17
GP 73 PPTOI 197.8 Minutes

2017-18
GP 82 PPTOI 246.6 Minutes

Puljujarvi

2016-17
GP 28 PPTOI 22.6 Minutes

2017-18
GP 65 PPTOI 48.3 Minutes

I think the whole "earn your PP time" argument is trash as well.
You want weapons like a great shot and one timer on a PP, not a grinder like Caggiula whiffing on every pass (only on there because hey nice forecheck hustle there in practice, Drake).

Laine's success from that PP spot in his draft year was immediately molded into an NHL plan to utilize that skill.
Pulju's success from that PP spot in his draft year was completely ignored and not deployed at the NHL level with passers available like Connor and Drai.

Our development always places more emphasis on what a player cannot do first instead of helping them translate the skills that they excel at to the NHL level. Too often trying to turn players into something they either are not or they need more time and experience before making it a part of their more complete game later in their experience. The first thing you do with a player like Pulju to build his confidence? Make him believe that left half wall shot is going to be a big part of his success. But we don't see him there ever. Even the PP time he gets, he's in the bumper position completely covered while our perimeter passing can't get shots through.

Now I'm very curious to see what Viveiros will do with the PP units this year. But I doubt anyone can say what we saw on the PP last year was competent. Jesse's absence from it was not the be all killer of course, but not even trying him is at the very least questionable usage.

I disagree.

Laine was drafted ahead of JP for a reason. It also makes sense that he'd get tons of PP time since at least he's got that rocket of a shot.

Ultimately, your argument only makes sense if you are willing to say that if we had Laine and Winnipeg had JP, that the two players would have their fates reversed. I don't think so. Jp is just a different kind of player. He can't be the same kind of role player as Laine so he has to play the game right way before he shows any value. I still believe that he can be great, but it's just a fact that he's a lesser talent than Laine, and that's not shame on him. Lots of players are worse than Laine.

I also don't buy the argument that coaches seemingly have it in for players, or that they wouldn't try JP many times in every different spot. Remember that what we see is just a part of it. Most experimentation like that would occur in practices, so to me it's likely that JP just never showed much. There's a lot more to success than just having good tools.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The PP argument I get but the rest I don't.

This org has constantly pushed players into tiles they were not ready for and it hurt them. Now we want to force a player into the top 6 when he isn't ready cause he needs to start building chemistry or just deserves a big look just cause?

Slow and steady works for lots of players. Seguin in Boston. Yes they messed up by trading him but the development worked. They had him on the third line doing occasional top 6 duty. Then after he was traded he did a bit more lower work and then forces the issue. Now he is paid almost 10 a year.

Yes JP needs confidence. But if he can't excel against lower competition then he won't build some being shut down and made silly by tougher ones.

 

[Bank Shot]

Excellent post.

"Our development always places more emphasis on what a player cannot do first instead of helping them translate the skills that they excel at to the NHL level."

This in particular has been a massive problem for as long as I've been a fan.

What you are highlighting here is exactly what the Oilers did with guys like Gagner, Eberle, and then 5-6 years later everyone complains that these guys never really developed a defensive game.

I think guys are less likely to develop well if you just hand them the keys to the kingdom.

And I think the onus is largely on players to improve. If they show well in practice and with the icetime they are given they will be given larger roles.

If a coach thinks a player can help them win they will play that player more.

Kucherov played 12 minutes a night with 1 minute of pp time in his rookie season. Didn't seem to hurt his development any.

The NHL is very fair. Guys get icetime based on how they perform. If Puljujarvi earns his icetime he'll get as much as he can handle.

 

[Aerrol]

What you are highlighting here is exactly what the Oilers did with guys like Gagner, Eberle, and then 5-6 years later everyone complains that these guys never really developed a defensive game.

I think guys are less likely to develop well if you just hand them the keys to the kingdom.

And I think the onus is largely on players to improve. If they show well in practice and with the icetime they are given they will be given larger roles.

If a coach thinks a player can help them win they will play that player more.

Kucherov played 12 minutes a night with 1 minute of pp time in his rookie season. Didn't seem to hurt his development any.

The NHL is very fair. Guys get icetime based on how they perform. If Puljujarvi earns his icetime he'll get as much as he can handle.

Imo you're not separating two distinct ways the Oilers have failed at developing our players:

1. Rushing players into roles they're not ready for.

2. Failing to develop players strengths.

The Oilers have done both (and a whole swack of other things on top of them). Gagner for instance is a great early example of telling him to focus on getting bigger and working on board work. Those help but he really should have been working on his shot and skating (both shiftiness and acceleration). This would be focusing on his existing strength as a skilled offensive player rather than trying to turn him into a defensive two way centre.

He ALSO was thrust into more responsibility than he could handle.

 

[guymez]

The PP argument I get but the rest I don't.

This org has constantly pushed players into tiles they were not ready for and it hurt them. Now we want to force a player into the top 6 when he isn't ready cause he needs to start building chemistry or just deserves a big look just cause?

Slow and steady works for lots of players. Seguin in Boston. Yes they messed up by trading him but the development worked. They had him on the third line doing occasional top 6 duty. Then after he was traded he did a bit more lower work and then forces the issue. Now he is paid almost 10 a year.

Yes JP needs confidence. But if he can't excel against lower competition then he won't build some being shut down and made silly by tougher ones.

Its a funny thing. I have had more than a few posters object to the position that Jesse has been mishandled but outside of the PP I havent seen 1 supportable argument.
No evidence...no facts....no anything. Just posters suggesting that they feel it to be true.

Doesnt matter how strong it is that you feel about your feelings....feelings do not replace facts and evidence.

 

[Bank Shot]

Imo you're not separating two distinct ways the Oilers have failed at developing our players:

1. Rushing players into roles they're not ready for.

2. Failing to develop players strengths.

The Oilers have done both (and a whole swack of other things on top of them). Gagner for instance is a great early example of telling him to focus on getting bigger and working on board work. Those help but he really should have been working on his shot and skating (both shiftiness and acceleration). This would be focusing on his existing strength as a skilled offensive player rather than trying to turn him into a defensive two way centre.

He ALSO was thrust into more responsibility than he could handle.

Gagner never really got better at playing defense, so maybe its on him for not following the development plan?

As he found out there is not much space in the NHL for a 40ish point one way player. Had he developed a sound two way game, every team would have time for him. Do you really think working on playing a two-way game stunts offensive talent? How does that work exactly?

It seems you think that NHL clubs have more control over a player's development than they actually do.

They watch and give suggestions, but it's up to the players to put in the work to reach their goals. NHL clubs aren't dictating to players exactly what to work on and for how long. They give some feedback during exit interviews and a development coach drops in a few times over the season with some feedback but that is about it.

It's up to the players to work on what they need to work on to develop.

And Gagner clearly worked hard on his skating. It improved substantially from his rookie season when it was awful, but he could never get over the hump to become a plus skater and that's likely just a physical limitation more than anything.

It seems like you are hanging way too much blame on the Oilers for something that is mostly out of their control. They are tightly regulated by the CBA how much time they can mandate players practice.

It seems to me that if you are a prospective NHL player the best thing you can do is work on being a dependable and reliable player all over the ice. That way you will always get your minutes and you won't need to depend on the coach putting you into the perfect situation for your strengths to shine.

I think a big problem for many NHL prospects is that they are the stars at the junior level and can walk over the opposition based on talent, and then they arrive in the NHL and EVERYONE was a former junior star. Now unless their offensive skill set is just heads and tails above everyone, they need to rely on a lot of other things to separate themselves from the pack. If offence was your junior calling card (like Gagner), but you're clearly not a special offensive talent at the NHL level you better get damn good at something else as fast as you can.

 

[Mr Positive]

@Bankshot
imo Gagner was ruined by a bad developmental philosophy. That was the era that we drafted Plante. Everything was a about being big and physical. Gagner started off lean and nimble, but gained muscle and added grit to his game, but it just was never true to himself. The extra weight probably contributed to his ankles weakening, and when he got ankle injuries it officially ruined him as a potential top line talent. I hope Yamamoto stays small. The NHL has hit the point where it really doesn't matter how small you are. The NHL reacts to head shots so harshly that it doesn't matter. Speed and agility are now rewarded.

That was an aside though. For JP, I hope he concentrates on skating, but skating smart, unlike Yakupov. Unlike Yak though, I feel that JP has a very, very high hockey IQ. He just has to adjust to the NA game, and it is coming along. He's had up and down progress but the general trend is up.

 

[Aerchon]

Gagner was a player i thought for sure would improve.

He didn't. His defense was putrid. The few times he worked at it he lost his offense. Could never figure out how to do both at the nhl level. Should have been moved to the third line winger and PP specialist like he was used in CB.