Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part IV

[BoldNewLettuce]

It's both disappointing and refreshing that the org coudnt find a spot for him.

So long as he doesn't take it personally and trains well he should be a beast real soon.

 

[GameChanger]

The point I was making was more about being elite at first assists, and I cannot say that I saw that in watching those clips. I saw someone who with a bit of skill, a bit of luck, a good shot and with some help from McDavid got several first assists in a short period of time. I would not draw any conclusions from that to be honest.

On the other hand Puljujarvi created a lot of chances that didn't get into the net due to his line mates failing to score. And he hit the posts a few times at the start of the season so he was also a bit unlucky. Also Chiarelli mentioned that Jesse creates as many opportunities as anyone else in the team. Yes the sample size is not very large, but 28 games, even with not that many minutes still tells something, it's not only luck we're talking about. If we were talking about just luck there'd be no point in looking at any scoring stats until mid season. However, I do agree with you to some extent, but not completely.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

http://www.suomikiekko.com/2017/05/...ssa-jarkytys-mista-jalat-muutamassa-paivassa/ some quotes: "Puljujärvi was shockingly bad for team Finland (headline)", "easily the worst player vs Sweden", "looked completely lost out there", "all the glory has gone surrounding him", "he was supposed to score goals. Hard to see that based on these games", "timing was off and he was way too slow"...the media was the main reason I didn't want him to participate. It's just ruthless here (doesn't matter if a player is 18 or 28 years old: they will eat them alive). I wonder what it will do to his confidence if he doesn't meet the unfair expectations set by them and majority of the fans. Even Laine got criticized last year for only scoring against "weaker" teams.

 

[GameChanger]

http://www.suomikiekko.com/2017/05/...ssa-jarkytys-mista-jalat-muutamassa-paivassa/ some quotes: "Puljujärvi was shockingly bad for team Finland (headline)", "easily the worst player vs Sweden", "looked completely lost out there", "all the glory has gone surrounding him", "he was supposed to score goals. Hard to see that based on these games", "timing was off and he was way too slow"...the media was the main reason I didn't want him to participate. It's just ruthless here (doesn't matter if a player is 18 or 28 years old). I wonder what it will do to his confidence if he doesn't meet the unfair expectations set by them and majority of the fans. Even Laine got criticized last year for only scoring against "weaker" teams.

That's a pretty strong selection of the quotes you liked to choose. Many people have also written that e.g. Rantanen wasn't any better and that all the players coming from NA were bad, so jet lag may have had something to do with that. I saw the first game and there Pulju wasn't any worse than many other players. Also after that game there was not too negative opinions either, as Pulju didn't fail either. He just didn't produce offensively, but that was the same with almost the whole team.

Laine was also criticised last year for the mistakes he kept making, not only for not scoring against weaker teams. Laine also played with Barkov and Jokinen and joined the national team with a huge hype, so I think the expectations were higher. So I don't think the expectations are as high to Pulju, which may be a good thing.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

That's a pretty strong selection of the quotes you liked to choose. Many people have also written that e.g. Rantanen wasn't any better and that all the players coming from NA were bad, so jet lag may have had something to do with that. I saw the first game and there Pulju wasn't any worse than many other players. Also after that game there was not too negative opinions either, as Pulju didn't fail either. He just didn't produce offensively, but that was the same with almost the whole team.

Laine was also criticised last year for the mistakes he kept making, not only for not scoring against weaker teams. Laine also played with Barkov and Jokinen and joined the national team with a huge hype, so I think the expectations were higher. So I don't think the expectations are as high to Pulju, which may be a good thing.

I selected the quotes that described that writing, which was overly negative as a whole. As for the bolded part; I think they unfortunately are based on what I've heard (talking about casual fans and media; for us they certainly aren't as high and shouldn't be). Somehow people don't expect as much from Rantanen, he's been talked very little.

 

[CupofOil]

I don't mind if some people don't believe in Pulju, but sometimes it feels many guys do have short memories, at least when it comes to these things.

Somebody wrote that Puljujarvi failed to produce with McDavid. As corrected earlier, McDavid and Pulju had four games together, in which Pulju scored four points (should've been five as one point was clearly robbed). The actual PPG rate he had (1.25) would've been the best in NHL and that was without PP time, and the 1PPG rate would've put him at #1 in all of NHL at 5on5 stats, so it's not correct to say Pulju didn't produce with McDavid. Of course, and I emphasize again of course, it's just four games and I'm not saying Pulju would've kept that rate, especially without PP time. But I think already those four games should show that with good line mates and regular ice time Jesse might've been able to score a very nice amount of points already this year. I believe at least about what Sebastian Aho had, around 50 points.

I think people forget too easily that there was a good period of games when fans we're consistently suggesting him to the 1st line, and when he got there, he did fine. So in my opinion Pulju has already showed he can definitely be of use to the Oilers next year, but he just needs to be able to turn that highest level to his basic level. If the Oilers were planning to keep him in AHL for the whole season (as someone suggested) I think it'd make much more sense to sell him to another team.

I don't know what some people saw in his game that deserved promotion to the top line (it's like Yakupov all over again) but I didn't see any indication from his NHL time that he was ready to be a full time NHLer in any capacity.
He played scared (understandably), couldn't handle the puck at all, turned the puck over a lot and looked like bambi on skates. He did make some nice defensive plays and he played hard but he looked out of his league in general.

Most of us around here were calling for him to be sent to the AHL since the beginning of the season. I didn't watch him in Bakersfield but by many accounts, he had his struggles down there too. The kid has to put in a lot of work this offseason to be truly NHL ready by next fall which is fine, most prospects aren't ready to crack the NHL at 18 and it's made even tougher with the culture and language barrier that he had to overcome.

 

[GameChanger]

I don't know what some people saw in his game that deserved promotion to the top line (it's like Yakupov all over again) but I didn't see any indication from his NHL time that he was ready to be a full time NHLer in any capacity.
He played scared (understandably), couldn't handle the puck at all, turned the puck over a lot and looked like bambi on skates. He did make some nice defensive plays and he played hard but he looked out of his league in general.

Most of us around here were calling for him to be sent to the AHL since the beginning of the season. I didn't watch him in Bakersfield but by many accounts, he had his struggles down there too. The kid has to put in a lot of work this offseason to be truly NHL ready by next fall which is fine, most prospects aren't ready to crack the NHL at 18 and it's made even tougher with the culture and language barrier that he had to overcome.

Maybe that was your opinion, but I don't think you are remembering things quite correctly. In general the talks about AHL really started when Jesse was sitting more than playing. The same is true with the talks about him being scared on the ice. I remember this well as at that time I was following the game topics closely. I didn't see his last games in NHL, but obviously he struggled then, expect for the one game where he played over 10 minutes. I also remember he had a couple of more difficult games after his minor injury during the season. All this can be checked on this forum and some positive game reviews should still be found on the net. By this I'm not saying he didn't have any weaknesses to improve.

I agree with your last sentence, though. The AHL stint started positively, with reports about him being above anyone else. Too bad that didn't last game after game, but I guess it's quite natural especially with a young guy with limited English skills.

 

[GameChanger]

I selected the quotes that described that writing, which was overly negative as a whole. As for the bolded part; I think they unfortunately are based on what I've heard (talking about casual fans and media; for us they certainly aren't as high and shouldn't be). Somehow people don't expect as much from Rantanen, he's been talked very little.

I see your point. The expectations were huge when Pulju joined the national team. Many people were expecting him to be a carrying force. However, I think these expectations were lowered a lot during the three games he played.

It's got nothing to do with the amount of basic talent, but I was also surprised that people seemed to expect more from Pulju than e.g. Rantanen or almost any other forward in the team. I suppose it's the magic memories from the last year's U20s that does it. After all, Rantanen had a great season in Colorado and he is older (though still young) and more experienced than Pulju.

But if Rantanen, Filppula and even Aho (to a lesser extent) had a difficult time I think we need to be more patient with Jesse as well. We also need to remember that many things were new again and they were playing against very good teams. However, I do expect more from all the players I mentioned.

 

[Draiskull]

so is Puljujarvi cut from Team FIN?

 

[GameChanger]

so is Puljujarvi cut from Team FIN?

I think he was the 13th forward in the practise, while Sallinen was out of the roster. So Pulju should be playing at some part of the Championships, but it also depends on how the team is doing and if there's more players coming from NHL.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Maybe that was your opinion, but I don't think you are remembering things quite correctly. In general the talks about AHL really started when Jesse was sitting more than playing. The same is true with the talks about him being scared on the ice. I remember this well as at that time I was following the game topics closely. I didn't see his last games in NHL, but obviously he struggled then, expect for the one game where he played over 10 minutes. I also remember he had a couple of more difficult games after his minor injury during the season. All this can be checked on this forum and some positive game reviews should still be found on the net. By this I'm not saying he didn't have any weaknesses to improve.

I agree with your last sentence, though. The AHL stint started positively, with reports about him being above anyone else. Too bad that didn't last game after game, but I guess it's quite natural especially with a young guy with limited English skills.

I'd say it was more than an opinion. Jesse had trouble receiving and handling pucks from day 1. He looked as you did say scared alot and didn't use his body along the boards, losing many of forchecks. Many fans were calling for him to be sent down way before the 3min shifts started.

As for remembering things correctly. Look at Lagu's breakdown of JP's assists. #4 he calls JP's assist a "good shot". That was his infamous"wtf slap pass" 5 ft from the net that was going 10ft wide.

I also remember JP taking a shot 3ft from the net and hitting Maroon in the mind as he was sitting 2ft to the side.

 

[ijuka]

so is Puljujarvi cut from Team FIN?

He was just terrible and completely useless in the EHT tournament last weekend with 0+0 score so it wouldn't surprise me.

It's amazing how much trouble he had with the simple, truly basic things like handling the puck, passing and especially receiving passes.


To be honest, that doesn't bode well. It's possible that if he gets to play he'll have a stronger performance at the world championships but after that awful performance I am not holding my breath.

I'd say it was more than an opinion. Jesse had trouble receiving and handling pucks from day 1. He looked as you did say scared alot and didn't use his body along the boards, losing many of forchecks. Many fans were calling for him to be sent down way before the 3min shifts started.

I remember this time pretty well and yes, many were calling for him to be sent down. And to me, there indeed should only have been two options: Either give him the best possible chances by playing him with McDavid with a lot of ice time or just send him down right away. What they did by keeping him up and playing tiny minutes with a miniscule role was IMO terrible. If he wasn't good enough to get PP time and a true top 6 role, then send him down immediately.

This decision could have cost him a lot.

 

[CupofOil]

Maybe that was your opinion, but I don't think you are remembering things quite correctly. In general the talks about AHL really started when Jesse was sitting more than playing. The same is true with the talks about him being scared on the ice. I remember this well as at that time I was following the game topics closely. I didn't see his last games in NHL, but obviously he struggled then, expect for the one game where he played over 10 minutes. I also remember he had a couple of more difficult games after his minor injury during the season. All this can be checked on this forum and some positive game reviews should still be found on the net. By this I'm not saying he didn't have any weaknesses to improve.

I agree with your last sentence, though. The AHL stint started positively, with reports about him being above anyone else. Too bad that didn't last game after game, but I guess it's quite natural especially with a young guy with limited English skills.

The sending him down to the AHL talk was going on the entire time and many including fans and media were surprised that he wasn't sent down earlier. This chatter didn't just go away once he got a bit more playing time. If anything, that talk intensified as it was quite obvious that he was in over his head.

He wasn't a total disaster and displayed a pretty good feel for the game with his defensive acumen but the game was moving way too fast for him. I think he should have been sent to the AHL right after preseason but since Versteeg spurned the Oilers, they were kind of stuck with forcing him on to the roster.

 

[bobbythebrain]

The sending him down to the AHL talk was going on the entire time and many including fans and media were surprised that he wasn't sent down earlier. This chatter didn't just go away once he got a bit more playing time. If anything, that talk intensified as it was quite obvious that he was in over his head.

He wasn't a total disaster and displayed a pretty good feel for the game with his defensive acumen but the game was moving way too fast for him. I think he should have been sent to the AHL right after preseason but since Versteeg spurned the Oilers, they were kind of stuck with forcing him on to the roster.

This is an accurate depiction imo. JP did look good defensively. But when he had the puck was an entirely different story.

The convo's in those games was so lopsided. Like that "slap pass" I mentioned. After the game many were praising him for a great game and how he got points and he was a natural fit for McD.
Others were like what did I just see? Send him down already.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Jesse's old coach Marjamäki, who is not coaching the Finnish national team, said to papers that Pulju didn't receive any sort of feedback for the first few months in the AHL (He probably talked to him, and didn't pull this out of his ass). He also said that he knows Pulju well and knows that he needs daily feedback.

Why are they ignoring the boi?

 

[bobbythebrain]

Jesse's old coach Marjamäki, who is not coaching the Finnish national team, said to papers that Pulju didn't receive any sort of feedback for the first few months in the AHL (He probably talked to him, and didn't pull this out of his ass). He also said that he knows Pulju well and knows that he needs daily feedback.

Why are they ignoring the boi?

Interesting. Personally I think it would be wise for EDM to get him another NHL Fin to play with for the transition. If I were Chia I would be hard in on Armia to put on JP's wing on the 3rd line

Armia-Cags-JP

 

[ijuka]

Jesse's old coach Marjamäki, who is not coaching the Finnish national team, said to papers that Pulju didn't receive any sort of feedback for the first few months in the AHL (He probably talked to him, and didn't pull this out of his ass). He also said that he knows Pulju well and knows that he needs daily feedback.

Why are they ignoring the boi?

Yeah, this is pretty worrying as well. I think that he could have improved much faster if people just told him what he should do. This would be something I'd expect out of a development team like AHL, even if an NHL coaching team couldn't be bothered(But they really should).

I feel like he's the type of a player with mediocre individual thinking and that he needs to be told what to do. He's kind of like myself in that regard, I feel. I'm really good at doing what I'm told and I easily improve that way, but when no one tells me what I'm doing wrong I can't really pinpoint it. So I can understand that feeling, and also can understand that it might be tough for others to realize how important it is.

 

[joestevens29]

Jesse's old coach Marjamäki, who is not coaching the Finnish national team, said to papers that Pulju didn't receive any sort of feedback for the first few months in the AHL (He probably talked to him, and didn't pull this out of his ass). He also said that he knows Pulju well and knows that he needs daily feedback.

Why are they ignoring the boi?

I don't know that I believe that considering his coach from the AHL was on local radio every week and talked about the things they were working on with Jesse.

 

[GameChanger]

The sending him down to the AHL talk was going on the entire time and many including fans and media were surprised that he wasn't sent down earlier. This chatter didn't just go away once he got a bit more playing time. If anything, that talk intensified as it was quite obvious that he was in over his head.

Out of curiousity, I checked the game topics which confirmed that at least here people often saw it in a different way. There were several games with very positive comments. Sure he's had better and worse games. A quick googling also gave the following picked comments:

Edmonton Journal:

(First a lot of talk about excellent corsis and other underlying stats...)
Nothing anywhere in there to suggest the 18-year-old is remotely hurting the team, even as those production numbers are nothing special. The eye supports those numbers, as J.P. has looked good-to-excellent on the defensive side of the puck for a player of his tender age, and has shown occasional flashes of brilliance with the disc on his blade.

Oilonwhyte.com:

Puljujarvi has had moments of greatness and has proven to be capable of playing in the NHL.

Puljujarvi has also been a factor on the third line, and also contributes on the power-play. He’s a big body that needs to add more physicality, but he definitely brings speed into the lineup.

Though he is not getting as much ice time, there are circumstances and flashes of his play that make him useful up with the Oilers. He’s not making too many mistakes, and he is giving 100 percent effort night in and night out. Edmonton shouldn’t fix what isn’t broken, and therefore, should keep him in the NHL.

McLellan:

“He’s got his legs back in LA. He was quick, on the puck and he got excited to play with Connor. Like any 18 or even 20-year-old in the National Hockey League, they have to find consistency. There’s nights when he’s very dangerous and others when he’s not.”

And again at Oilonwhyte.com (before the 1st line stint):

Puljujarvi, on the other hand, has probably been one of Edmonton’s three or four best players over the past week.

The 18-year-old Finn has the speed to keep up with the Oilers captain and possesses a powerful one-timer that is tailor-made for McDavid’s incredible on ice vision and otherworldly playmaking ability.

And like Kurri, Puljujarvi plays a solid two-way game and possesses and has a dangerous shot from the top of the circle.


I'm now ready to leave this topic as it's okay that not everyone agrees with me. I just wanted to point out that he has had NHL level games or if not quite a few people have been wrong. Please don't take this too seriously, as I'm not here to start a war. I know there are different opinions and that's fine.

 

[LaGu]

Out of curiousity, I checked the game topics which confirmed that at least here people often saw it in a different way. There were several games with very positive comments. Sure he's had better and worse games. A quick googling also gave the following picked comments:

Edmonton Journal:

(First a lot of talk about excellent corsis and other underlying stats...)
Nothing anywhere in there to suggest the 18-year-old is remotely hurting the team, even as those production numbers are nothing special. The eye supports those numbers, as J.P. has looked good-to-excellent on the defensive side of the puck for a player of his tender age, and has shown occasional flashes of brilliance with the disc on his blade.

Oilonwhyte.com:

Puljujarvi has had moments of greatness and has proven to be capable of playing in the NHL.

Puljujarvi has also been a factor on the third line, and also contributes on the power-play. He’s a big body that needs to add more physicality, but he definitely brings speed into the lineup.

Though he is not getting as much ice time, there are circumstances and flashes of his play that make him useful up with the Oilers. He’s not making too many mistakes, and he is giving 100 percent effort night in and night out. Edmonton shouldn’t fix what isn’t broken, and therefore, should keep him in the NHL.

McLellan:

“He’s got his legs back in LA. He was quick, on the puck and he got excited to play with Connor. Like any 18 or even 20-year-old in the National Hockey League, they have to find consistency. There’s nights when he’s very dangerous and others when he’s not.â€

And again at Oilonwhyte.com (before the 1st line stint):

Puljujarvi, on the other hand, has probably been one of Edmonton’s three or four best players over the past week.

The 18-year-old Finn has the speed to keep up with the Oilers captain and possesses a powerful one-timer that is tailor-made for McDavid’s incredible on ice vision and otherworldly playmaking ability.

And like Kurri, Puljujarvi plays a solid two-way game and possesses and has a dangerous shot from the top of the circle.


I'm now ready to leave this topic as it's okay that not everyone agrees with me. I just wanted to point out that he has had NHL level games or if not quite a few people have been wrong. Please don't take this too seriously, as I'm not here to start a war. I know there are different opinions and that's fine.

For me the flashes and consistency stands out, which make perfect sense. The problem this year is that two other 18 year olds tore it up. Remind me of the last time an 18 year old 3rd overall did that.

Anyhow I agree 100% that we did see flashes of greatness. That is why I think his future is bright with the oilers.

Don't leave for too long, I enjoy discussing with you since you never resort to %%%% arguments. Even if we don't see eye to eye it is good to speak with a poster who replies and think about what he/she is writing.

 

[bobbythebrain]

For me the flashes and consistency stands out, which make perfect sense. The problem this year is that two other 18 year olds tore it up. Remind me of the last time an 18 year old 3rd overall did that.

Anyhow I agree 100% that we did see flashes of greatness. That is why I think his future is bright with the oilers.

Don't leave for too long, I enjoy discussing with you since you never resort to %%%% arguments. Even if we don't see eye to eye it is good to speak with a poster who replies and think about what he/she is writing.

Aren't you the person who who credited JP's assist as a "good shot", when infact it was seizure of decision making that ended up in a shot going 10ft wide?

Just cuz people don't agree with you doesn't make them mindless zombies.

 

[ImmuneEH]

Would you guys be opposed to leaving Puljujarvi in the AHL until the deadline next season? I'd rather see what we have in Slepyshev in his final year of his ELC, and bring in Puljujarvi when he's over-ripe.

 

[MessierII]

Would you guys be opposed to leaving Puljujarvi in the AHL until the deadline next season? I'd rather see what we have in Slepyshev in his final year of his ELC, and bring in Puljujarvi when he's over-ripe.

I don't really like to discuss things like this because it's kind of pointless. He either earns a spot or doesn't. Not much to discuss until we see how he does in camp.

 

[Donuts]

just for fun: what would it take to get puljujarrvi to canucks?

#5oa + hutton?

 

[MessierII]

just for fun: what would it take to get puljujarrvi to canucks?

#5oa + hutton?

I think it would have to be an NHL player and a cap dump coming back with pulijaarvi.

Pulijaarvi + Pouliot for Sutter + 5th pick

Something like that