Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part IV

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Why? Is it because he was passed over for Dubois? A move which shocked everyone and had the Oiler scouts and PC giggling like little girls right after Columbus made their pick. CBJ missed the post season his first 2 years as GM, finally making it this season. CBJ also has an excellent scouting staff and the call to draft Dubois was by them with the approval of Kekäläinen. Almost every scouting agency were flipping Laine and JP until Laine took over for good during the last half of their draft year. Laine is looking like a future 50 goal scorer right now and is currently miles ahead of JP but Edmonton is developing JP into Mcdavid's future RW and a 2way, 30-30 type of player.

No, it's because I actually watched them play. It should be pretty obvious by now. CBJ's decision didn't really shock me tbh, it was clear as day they weren't sold to him as a top3 prospect. What comes for scouting agencies that had Pulju over Laine; I hold zero credibility to them what comes to Europrospects. This season Liljegren was over Heiskanen like 95% of the season, when it should've been the opposite.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

And like you said, he's not Draisaitl either. People need to stop pencilling him into the top 6 in 2018. You want him to follow Yakupov's trajectory? Force him into our top 6 before he's ready.

Yeah. It is starting to seem like he needs to go trough a rougher path. He needs a full year in AHL to get rid of his quirks, then ease him into NHL by playing him on 3rd line and pp time, promote when ready.

 

[Zaddy]

Yeah. It is starting to seem like he needs to go trough a rougher path. He needs a full year in AHL to get rid of his quirks, then ease him into NHL by playing him on 3rd line and pp time, promote when ready.

I don't think he needs a full season in the AHL. I expect him to be on the roster next year playing 3rd line minutes and hopefully getting some PP time on the 2nd power play unit.

 

[joestevens29]

At the end of the day everything is really in Puljujarvi's hands right now.

The Oilers would love it if he could come in and be a 20g guy who does more to help you then hurt you, but he needs to figure a few things out on his own this off-season.

As of today I don't think PC really is writing off anything with the guy. He probably however gets some help and doesn't leave a spot for Jesse, but challenges Jesse to force an opening for him.

 

[belair]

I don't think he needs a full season in the AHL. I expect him to be on the roster next year playing 3rd line minutes and hopefully getting some PP time on the 2nd power play unit.

I don't think we'll have the roster spot for him. Unless we're letting Pitlick go to free agency and running Kassian on the fourth line, he's probably gonna be spending a good chunk of the season in Bakersfield IMO. Even if that spot is open he's got some solid competition in Slepyshev for that spot.

The only RW spot I see being open next fall is Eberle's in the instance he has been traded. And if that's the case I'm hoping they'd have a good veteran replacement lined up, not a green JP.

Yet another reason why I want to move Ebs for that Strome/MDC return...a quality line mate for JP to develop with in a scoring role.

 

[CupofOil]

I don't think he needs a full season in the AHL. I expect him to be on the roster next year playing 3rd line minutes and hopefully getting some PP time on the 2nd power play unit.

Unless the Oilers find a scoring center to play 3rd line, I think that's a bad idea. Puljujarvi is the type of player who needs big minutes playing with skill so he can gain offensive confidence. Playing him on a grinding line is limiting his potential and you risk sapping the offensive creativity from his game forever.

What I would do is see where he stands in Training Camp, give him some reps in the top 6 during preseason and if he's not cutting it, give him prime minutes again in the AHL until he's without a doubt ready to make the jump into the top 6. He needs to play big minutes somewhere IMO. They need to be very careful with his development, I fear there is some bust potential if he's not handled correctly.

 

[McFlyingV]

The one benefit if he's not ready next season and spends the year in the AHL (and correct me if I'm wrong), but I believe his ELC year would slide given that he won't be 20 yet, despite his 1st ELC year already being burned. That would mean we'd have him coming in on 2 years of ELC when McDavid is making big money.

Then again, it would not surprise me if he made the team next year. He needs to get stronger on his feet and when protecting the puck. To me thats the one main thing lacking from him being able to make an impact at the NHL level. That and keeping his feet moving. Both are pretty easy to correct with a good 4-5 months of training.

I haven't been keeping up on whether or not he's made the WC team, but I think that will also be a good experience for him getting to play against some NHLers just as a reminder of how good the NHL actually is and what he needs to do to succeed next year.

 

[Stoneman89]

He needs to start off in the AHL next year and dominate. He didn't exactly do that this year. Make it so that the big team has no choice. Bring him up well after he's proven himself. No more throwing guys to the wolves. We have some depth now and we should use it.

 

[Draiskull]

He needs to start off in the AHL next year and dominate. He didn't exactly do that this year. Make it so that the big team has no choice. Bring him up well after he's proven himself. No more throwing guys to the wolves. We have some depth now and we should use it.

yup ...pretty much do what we did to Draisaitl last year.
Start off in the AHL and call up when ready.

 

[Digger12]

yup ...pretty much do what we did to Draisaitl last year.
Start off in the AHL and call up when ready.

The ironic thing about this was that Draisaitl didn't really prove himself "ready" when he was actually down in the AHL. He went 6-1-1-2 and was a -5, and it wasn't until his final game down there where he began to finally stop sulking about his demotion (admittedly reading between the lines a bit in regards to what Fleming was saying about Drai at the time) and play to his ability...then I think an injury brought him back up and he went on to prove that he was way too good for the AHL and would never see that league again.

IMO it's hard to say that the AHL developed his on-ice game at all, but I'd say the demotion was like cold water in his face that woke him up. In that sense, being sent down was a good thing for his overall development as a professional.

 

[Zaddy]

I don't think we'll have the roster spot for him. Unless we're letting Pitlick go to free agency and running Kassian on the fourth line, he's probably gonna be spending a good chunk of the season in Bakersfield IMO. Even if that spot is open he's got some solid competition in Slepyshev for that spot.

The only RW spot I see being open next fall is Eberle's in the instance he has been traded. And if that's the case I'm hoping they'd have a good veteran replacement lined up, not a green JP.

Yet another reason why I want to move Ebs for that Strome/MDC return...a quality line mate for JP to develop with in a scoring role.

Yes, it depends a little bit on what happens with Eberle, but we could also run three scoring lines with McDavid, Drai and RNH down the middle, with RNH taking the heavy defensive minutes, McDavid the topline minutes and Drai's line (with Pulju) getting a push. There's plenty of options if Pulju proves to be ready.

Unless the Oilers find a scoring center to play 3rd line, I think that's a bad idea. Puljujarvi is the type of player who needs big minutes playing with skill so he can gain offensive confidence. Playing him on a grinding line is limiting his potential and you risk sapping the offensive creativity from his game forever.

What I would do is see where he stands in Training Camp, give him some reps in the top 6 during preseason and if he's not cutting it, give him prime minutes again in the AHL until he's without a doubt ready to make the jump into the top 6. He needs to play big minutes somewhere IMO. They need to be very careful with his development, I fear there is some bust potential if he's not handled correctly.

Well, I'm not completely opposed to that, but at the same time the Oilers don't have much skill for Pulju to play with in the AHL anyway. I kinda think he'd be better served in a top9 role (preferably top6, if he can handle it) with PP minutes in the NHL. Obviously the way he was handled this year in the NHL was not good at all, and we can't have another year like that, but if he can get solid 2nd/3rd line minutes and PP time I think that's the ideal way/place for him to develop. But if Todd still doesn't trust him next year then by all means let him stay in the AHL and play big minutes.

 

[belair]

Aside from roster speculation, the one thing Jesse seriously needs to do this off season is add some serious core strength. If he comes into camp looking like Bambi again, there's reason to be worried.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Aside from roster speculation, the one thing Jesse seriously needs to do this off season is add some serious core strength. If he comes into camp looking like Bambi again, there's reason to be worried.

Does pizza build muscle? If so he should be fine.

 

[ijuka]

Does pizza build muscle? If so he should be fine.

Being perfectly serious, eating Pizza is not something I'd like to see out of a serious athlete, at least if it's more often than like once a month.

As a food it's especially bad and contains almost all the bad things an unhealthy savory meal can. And unlike other awful stuff like Hamburgers, it generally doesn't even contain all that much protein.

 

[McFlyingV]

Being perfectly serious, eating Pizza is not something I'd like to see out of a serious athlete, at least if it's more often than like once a month.

As a food it's especially bad and contains almost all the bad things an unhealthy savory meal can. And unlike other awful stuff like Hamburgers, it generally doesn't even contain all that much protein.

Its probably a good thing that elite athletes need high amounts of carbohydrates then. Yes they need protein, but not to the excessive amount that I think some believe. Even for building muscle there's generally no evidence that shows higher protein intake is more beneficial to muscle protein synthesis than evidenced recommendations, aside from the case where anabolic steroids are involved.

People really need to stop worrying about how elite athletes are eating. They need ridiculous levels of carbohydrates that the general population doesn't, and its impractical to hit those numbers eating completely healthy foods where fibre intake would be far too high.

Some of you would have a serious aneurysm reading the daily diet of the best swimmer in history.

Let the team/player dieticians worry about what the players eat, they're far more educated on the subject.

 

[belair]

Its probably a good thing that elite athletes need high amounts of carbohydrates then. Yes they need protein, but not to the excessive amount that I think some believe. Even for building muscle there's generally no evidence that shows higher protein intake is more beneficial to muscle protein synthesis than evidenced recommendations, aside from the case where anabolic steroids are involved.

People really need to stop worrying about how elite athletes are eating. They need ridiculous levels of carbohydrates that the general population doesn't, and its impractical to hit those numbers eating completely healthy foods where fibre intake would be far too high.

Some of you would have a serious aneurysm reading the daily diet of the best swimmer in history.

Let the team/player dieticians worry about what the players eat, they're far more educated on the subject.

For the inclined...

Phelps’ diet – which involves ingesting 4,000 calories every time he sits down for a meal – resembles that of a reckless overeater rather than an Olympian.

Phelps lends a new spin to the phrase “Breakfast of Champions†by starting off his day by eating three fried-egg sandwiches loaded with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise.

He follows that up with two cups of coffee, a five-egg omelet, a bowl of grits, three slices of French toast topped with powdered sugar and three chocolate-chip pancakes.

At lunch, Phelps gobbles up a pound of enriched pasta and two large ham and cheese sandwiches slathered with mayo on white bread – capping off the meal by chugging about 1,000 calories worth of energy drinks.

For dinner, Phelps really loads up on the carbs – what he needs to give him plenty of energy for his five-hours-a-day, six-days-a-week regimen – with a pound of pasta and an entire pizza.

He washes all that down with another 1,000 calories worth of energy drinks.

I don't care what he's eating. If he's 6'4, the guy needs to be a bull.

 

[CornKicker]

For the inclined...



I don't care what he's eating. If he's 6'4, the guy needs to be a bull.

to be fair Phelps is also a giant stoner so none of that surprises me

 

[GameChanger]

I don't mind if some people don't believe in Pulju, but sometimes it feels many guys do have short memories, at least when it comes to these things.

Somebody wrote that Puljujarvi failed to produce with McDavid. As corrected earlier, McDavid and Pulju had four games together, in which Pulju scored four points (should've been five as one point was clearly robbed). The actual PPG rate he had (1.25) would've been the best in NHL and that was without PP time, and the 1PPG rate would've put him at #1 in all of NHL at 5on5 stats, so it's not correct to say Pulju didn't produce with McDavid. Of course, and I emphasize again of course, it's just four games and I'm not saying Pulju would've kept that rate, especially without PP time. But I think already those four games should show that with good line mates and regular ice time Jesse might've been able to score a very nice amount of points already this year. I believe at least about what Sebastian Aho had, around 50 points.

I think people forget too easily that there was a good period of games when fans we're consistently suggesting him to the 1st line, and when he got there, he did fine. So in my opinion Pulju has already showed he can definitely be of use to the Oilers next year, but he just needs to be able to turn that highest level to his basic level. If the Oilers were planning to keep him in AHL for the whole season (as someone suggested) I think it'd make much more sense to sell him to another team.

 

[GameChanger]

One little detail I find quite interesting is that out of the players that played over 20 games Pulju was the 1st in all of NHL at 1st assists/60 min. Yes I chose the 20 game limit to support my point, but the fact is that the four players ahead played just 5-17 games.

I know 28 games, which include some where he got just three minutes of ice time, is not very much. I also know that in scoring goals the stats results would be very different. So I don't mean to draw strong conclusions, but it shows that next year he could provide some important assists, and possibly be elite at that, so I am shocked if Pulju won't get a real chance then. I'm pretty sure he will, though.

 

[BakedYams]

18 year old players are extremely rare for the AHL. He put up pretty good numbers considering his age relative to historical examples.

 

[Fourier]

I don't mind if some people don't believe in Pulju, but sometimes it feels many guys do have short memories, at least when it comes to these things.

Somebody wrote that Puljujarvi failed to produce with McDavid. As corrected earlier, McDavid and Pulju had four games together, in which Pulju scored four points (should've been five as one point was clearly robbed). The actual PPG rate he had (1.25) would've been the best in NHL and that was without PP time, and the 1PPG rate would've put him at #1 in all of NHL at 5on5 stats, so it's not correct to say Pulju didn't produce with McDavid. Of course, and I emphasize again of course, it's just four games and I'm not saying Pulju would've kept that rate, especially without PP time. But I think already those four games should show that with good line mates and regular ice time Jesse might've been able to score a very nice amount of points already this year. I believe at least about what Sebastian Aho had, around 50 points.

I think people forget too easily that there was a good period of games when fans we're consistently suggesting him to the 1st line, and when he got there, he did fine. So in my opinion Pulju has already showed he can definitely be of use to the Oilers next year, but he just needs to be able to turn that highest level to his basic level. If the Oilers were planning to keep him in AHL for the whole season (as someone suggested) I think it'd make much more sense to sell him to another team.

It's never a good thing when facts spoil the narrative.

 

[LaGu]

One little detail I find quite interesting is that out of the players that played over 20 games Pulju was the 1st in all of NHL at 1st assists/60 min. Yes I chose the 20 game limit to support my point, but the fact is that the four players ahead played just 5-17 games.

I know 28 games, which include some where he got just three minutes of ice time, is not very much. I also know that in scoring goals the stats results would be very different. So I don't mean to draw strong conclusions, but it shows that next year he could provide some important assists, and possibly be elite at that, so I am shocked if Pulju won't get a real chance then. I'm pretty sure he will, though.

We are talking about a total of 7 assists. 8 out the top 10 in firstA/60 have played between 75 and 288 mins. Only Getzlaf and McDavid manage to break into the top 10. When we are talking sample sizes these small there is a lot of luck involved. You need to see the games and watch the player. I actually like Puljujarvi so far, but I do think you are (and have been) taking this stat line too far.

1
McD, Puljuvarvi and Maroon come in three on two playing the Caps. McD has the puck, goes around his man and sets up Puljujarvi at the far post (good movement by Puljujavi). Puljujarvi gets a unlucky and puck goes Holtby's shoulder -> post and out, Maroon scores on the rebound.

2
P blocks a shot and moves up the ice creating a two on one with Maroon, manages to get around his D (barely) and gives the puck to Maroons who scores.

3
Benning shot from the point, in front of the goal P manages to get his stick on the puck (in air), McDavid sweeps it in.

4
McD brings the puck in, drops it, P right behind him one times it, a good shot, and McD scores on the rebound.

5
P down on the ice after board battle (at the red line), gets it out and Slepy picks it up. Slepy skates in and scores, using the CHI line change. Bad play by CHI D, and Crawford also let in softie.

6
Lucic breaks up a play in EDM zone, gets it to P who immediately gets it to McDavid who is just leaving EDM zone. Good instincts by P to look for McD. McDavid break away where he makes OEL look Hal Gill-slow...

7
Puck along the boards in EDM zone and P manages to get the puck forward. Drai picks it up and goes all the way and scores.



Summing that up: two rebounds, two times getting the puck out from the boards, one two on one (in which he almost lost the puck imho), one break away pass from/in our own zone to McD and finally one shove of the puck in front of the net.

I am not trying to downplay his points, but I don't see how looking at those assists you can draw any kind of conclusion to be honest. Also, I know he had other plays which were very good so these seven assists are far from the entire story of Puljujarvi.

I do think you are a bit stuck on these stats though which actually don't mean very much at all due to the low TOI and GP. He scored 4 of those assists when McD was on a tear scoring his first hatrick and 9 pts in 4 games... Normally streaks even out over the course of a year but not if you don't play very much.

 

[GameChanger]

We are talking about a total of 7 assists. 8 out the top 10 in firstA/60 have played between 75 and 288 mins. Only Getzlaf and McDavid manage to break into the top 10. When we are talking sample sizes these small there is a lot of luck involved. You need to see the games and watch the player. I actually like Puljujarvi so far, but I do think you are (and have been) taking this stat line too far.

1
McD, Puljuvarvi and Maroon come in three on two playing the Caps. McD has the puck, goes around his man and sets up Puljujarvi at the far post (good movement by Puljujavi). Puljujarvi gets a unlucky and puck goes Holtby's shoulder -> post and out, Maroon scores on the rebound.

2
P blocks a shot and moves up the ice creating a two on one with Maroon, manages to get around his D (barely) and gives the puck to Maroons who scores.

3
Benning shot from the point, in front of the goal P manages to get his stick on the puck (in air), McDavid sweeps it in.

4
McD brings the puck in, drops it, P right behind him one times it, a good shot, and McD scores on the rebound.

5
P down on the ice after board battle (at the red line), gets it out and Slepy picks it up. Slepy skates in and scores, using the CHI line change. Bad play by CHI D, and Crawford also let in softie.

6
Lucic breaks up a play in EDM zone, gets it to P who immediately gets it to McDavid who is just leaving EDM zone. Good instincts by P to look for McD. McDavid break away where he makes OEL look Hal Gill-slow...

7
Puck along the boards in EDM zone and P manages to get the puck forward. Drai picks it up and goes all the way and scores.



Summing that up: two rebounds, two times getting the puck out from the boards, one two on one (in which he almost lost the puck imho), one break away pass from/in our own zone to McD and finally one shove of the puck in front of the net.

I am not trying to downplay his points, but I don't see how looking at those assists you can draw any kind of conclusion to be honest. Also, I know he had other plays which were very good so these seven assists are far from the entire story of Puljujarvi.

I do think you are a bit stuck on these stats though which actually don't mean very much at all due to the low TOI and GP. He scored 4 of those assists when McD was on a tear scoring his first hatrick and 9 pts in 4 games... Normally streaks even out over the course of a year but not if you don't play very much.

I see your point and partly agree. However, as Pulju played so little the best we can do is take a look at the stats based on the time he played. By that I don't mean to make a strong statement to any direction, but I think these stats work against some opinions about Pulju not doing well with McDavid. I also don't think it's only coincidence that Jesse did pretty well in the stats based on the ice time. It's also true that McDavid had a difficult period before they put him and Pulju together, so again I don't think it was only luck that he immediately scored a hat trick. Based on the short sample size I believe these two will end up showing great chemistry, and there's a good chance that'll happen already next year.

Yes he's got a lot of room for improvement, but sometimes I think it'd be good to remember that when Pulju played over 10 minutes a game fans were usually very pleased with him. That's why I find it a bit strange that some fans suggest another year in AHL. Of course he can be sent down if he's not ready for NHL, but I think he should be ready to start in NHL.

 

[Kolja]

We are talking about a total of 7 assists. 8 out the top 10 in firstA/60 have played between 75 and 288 mins. Only Getzlaf and McDavid manage to break into the top 10. When we are talking sample sizes these small there is a lot of luck involved. You need to see the games and watch the player. I actually like Puljujarvi so far, but I do think you are (and have been) taking this stat line too far.

1
McD, Puljuvarvi and Maroon come in three on two playing the Caps. McD has the puck, goes around his man and sets up Puljujarvi at the far post (good movement by Puljujavi). Puljujarvi gets a unlucky and puck goes Holtby's shoulder -> post and out, Maroon scores on the rebound.

2
P blocks a shot and moves up the ice creating a two on one with Maroon, manages to get around his D (barely) and gives the puck to Maroons who scores.

3
Benning shot from the point, in front of the goal P manages to get his stick on the puck (in air), McDavid sweeps it in.

4
McD brings the puck in, drops it, P right behind him one times it, a good shot, and McD scores on the rebound.

5
P down on the ice after board battle (at the red line), gets it out and Slepy picks it up. Slepy skates in and scores, using the CHI line change. Bad play by CHI D, and Crawford also let in softie.

6
Lucic breaks up a play in EDM zone, gets it to P who immediately gets it to McDavid who is just leaving EDM zone. Good instincts by P to look for McD. McDavid break away where he makes OEL look Hal Gill-slow...

7
Puck along the boards in EDM zone and P manages to get the puck forward. Drai picks it up and goes all the way and scores.



Summing that up: two rebounds, two times getting the puck out from the boards, one two on one (in which he almost lost the puck imho), one break away pass from/in our own zone to McD and finally one shove of the puck in front of the net.

I am not trying to downplay his points, but I don't see how looking at those assists you can draw any kind of conclusion to be honest. Also, I know he had other plays which were very good so these seven assists are far from the entire story of Puljujarvi.

I do think you are a bit stuck on these stats though which actually don't mean very much at all due to the low TOI and GP. He scored 4 of those assists when McD was on a tear scoring his first hatrick and 9 pts in 4 games... Normally streaks even out over the course of a year but not if you don't play very much.

Seems like he had a positive impact on most of his assists, no?

 

[LaGu]

I see your point and partly agree. However, as Pulju played so little the best we can do is take a look at the stats based on the time he played. By that I don't mean to make a strong statement to any direction, but I think these stats work against some opinions about Pulju not doing well with McDavid. I also don't think it's only coincidence that Jesse did pretty well in the stats based on the ice time. It's also true that McDavid had a difficult period before they put him and Pulju together, so again I don't think it was only luck that he immediately scored a hat trick. Based on the short sample size I believe these two will end up showing great chemistry, and there's a good chance that'll happen already next year.

Yes he's got a lot of room for improvement, but sometimes I think it'd be good to remember that when Pulju played over 10 minutes a game fans were usually very pleased with him. That's why I find it a bit strange that some fans suggest another year in AHL. Of course he can be sent down if he's not ready for NHL, but I think he should be ready to start in NHL.

I actually think it is the other way around, seeing as he played little we need to be very careful with just watching the stats because in small sample sizes luck plays too much of a factor.

I am not sure I base it on the same things as you do but I do think that they could form a really good duo already next season. With Drai on that wing though it will not happen, but hopefully they can afford to move Drai back to C permanently.

Seems like he had a positive impact on most of his assists, no?

The point I was making was more about being elite at first assists, and I cannot say that I saw that in watching those clips. I saw someone who with a bit of skill, a bit of luck, a good shot and with some help from McDavid got several first assists in a short period of time. I would not draw any conclusions from that to be honest.