Prospect Info: Jesperi Kotkaniemi

[Pompeius Magnus]

In all of this discussion regarding Kotkaniemi playing with the Habs this year, which I oppose, as I wouldbrather err on the side of nit rushing him, the fact there is an expansion draft in 2020-21 cant be forgotten.

If Kotkaniemi plays this year then he will also play next year and thereby will have to be protected, so he takes one of the 7 forward spots.

Again , I have other reasons for not wanting him to stay up this year, but this is an additional reason to think twice.

Meh by this point we'll have a few vets past their primes. Petry can go finish his career in Seattle, I won't mind.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I just heard on TSN690 (can't recall who it was) who said he's spoken with someone in the Habs organization about JK.

Based on the conversation he had with his contact:

- they plan is to be patient with him. And he gets the impression they will send him back to Europe after camp.

- the reason they chose him over Zadina is because of his performance numbers at the combine. He's younger than Zadina and the performances at the combine showed he's also more fit.

- also, in big games on the international level, Kotkaniemi has better performances with Finland than Zadia does with the Czech Republic.

 

[Dongstoppable]

I just heard on TSN690 (can't recall who it was) who said he's spoken with someone in the Habs organization about JK.

Based on the conversation he had with his contact:

- they plan is to be patient with him. And he gets the impression they will send him back to Europe after camp.

- the reason they chose him over Zadina is because of his performance numbers at the combine. He's younger than Zadina and the performances at the combine showed he's also more fit.

- also, in big games on the international level, Kotkaniemi has better performances with Finland than Zadia does with the Czech Republic.

If any of this is true, it sure doesn't make a lot of sense...

Typically the guy who performs worse at the combine has essentially better value because it means they have room to improve. If Zadina is producing as well as he is while being in sub-optimal shape, that means in theory with a pro workout regime he'll be even better. Kotka, in comparison, has less room to grow.

And if they're basing it on international competition, well, Kotkaniemi wasn't even at the U20s where Zadina out up 7 goals in 7 games, so saying Kotka had more impact in "big games" (whatever that means) doesn't really mean anything...

 

[NotProkofievian]

If any of this is true, it sure doesn't make a lot of sense...

Typically the guy who performs worse at the combine has essentially better value because it means they have room to improve. If Zadina is producing as well as he is while being in sub-optimal shape, that means in theory with a pro workout regime he'll be even better. Kotka, in comparison, has less room to grow.

And if they're basing it on international competition, well, Kotkaniemi wasn't even at the U20s where Zadina out up 7 goals in 7 games, so saying Kotka had more impact in "big games" (whatever that means) doesn't really mean anything...

I have grown to really despise this ''up-is-down'' counter-intuitivism regarding the combine. IMO, the fact that a prospect did poorly at the scouting combine shouldn't be considered evidence, on its own, that they'll benefit disproportionately more than someone who performed better. I would need to see evidence that this kid had untapped athletic potential, like he had unusually high type II fiber composition, or he had been growing at a fast rate recently, or something to that effect. But otherwise if a prospect did poorly at the combine, IMO, that should be considered a bad thing. Or else, why don't we just always select the wimpiest prospect available?

 

[member 300185]

Koka should be developed before feeding him to the lions.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Koka should be developed before feeding him to the lions.

I'd like to see two more years away from the NHL. One more year in the Liiga league and then one year in the AHL where he is called up towards the end of the year. He makes the NHL as a 20 year old.

I'd like to see both Poehling and Kotkaniemi play in the AHL after next year and be inserted into the NHL at the same time. Let them share the spotlight.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I have grown to really despise this ''up-is-down'' counter-intuitivism regarding the combine. IMO, the fact that a prospect did poorly at the scouting combine shouldn't be considered evidence, on its own, that they'll benefit disproportionately more than someone who performed better. I would need to see evidence that this kid had untapped athletic potential, like he had unusually high type II fiber composition, or he had been growing at a fast rate recently, or something to that effect. But otherwise if a prospect did poorly at the combine, IMO, that should be considered a bad thing. Or else, why don't we just always select the wimpiest prospect available?

Scoring well at the combine can also mean a better work ethic, which has a value. Either way, the combine gets way to much value attached to it. If the deciding factor for Kotka was the combine and international play, then I'm concerned about the decision making process. There are plenty of other reasons to like Montreal's most recent draft, but that's a worrying deciding factor.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Scoring well at the combine can also mean a better work ethic, which has a value. Either way, the combine gets way to much value attached to it. If the deciding factor for Kotka was the combine and international play, then I'm concerned about the decision making process. There are plenty of other reasons to like Montreal's most recent draft, but that's a worrying deciding factor.

Yeah, I don't like the idea that they made the selection based on the combine, true or not. There is some evidence to support it, though. In their ''behind the draft'' video, they debated two nameless prospects and their fitness scores, one who was all in the green, and one who was all in the red. Audette made the point that I was arguing against, IIRC.

The international games thing is poor reasoning as well. Almost the entire argument for Zadina was predicated on his excellent performance at the WJC. Some people were even using that performance to argue in favour of Zadina ahead of Svechnikov.

 

[member 300185]

I'd like to see two more years away from the NHL. One more year in the Liiga league and then one year in the AHL where he is called up towards the end of the year. He makes the NHL as a 20 year old.

I'd like to see both Poehling and Kotkaniemi play in the AHL after next year and be inserted into the NHL at the same time. Let them share the spotlight.

That makes a lot of sense and my way of thinking also. Too many good young players are ruined by bringing them in too soon. There are exceptions but for the most part that is true.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That makes a lot of sense and my way of thinking also. Too many good young players are ruined by bringing them in too soon. There are exceptions but for the most part that is true.

It's even tougher in big hockey markets with so much expectations. The Habs management would be stupid to rush the young prospects at this stage. However, I don't have much faith with Bergevin trying to keep his job. I am pretty sure he is trying to sell a youth movement (sooner rather than later) to Molson.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I'd like to see two more years away from the NHL. One more year in the Liiga league and then one year in the AHL where he is called up towards the end of the year. He makes the NHL as a 20 year old.

I'd like to see both Poehling and Kotkaniemi play in the AHL after next year and be inserted into the NHL at the same time. Let them share the spotlight.

Poehling is on track to replace Plekanec next season. Kotkaniemi hopefully is ready in a year too. Both guys are playing against men, so they don't need the AHL adjustment. Playing in the AHL is mostly for the stylistic adjustment between run and gun junior hockey and the structured and physical mens hockey of the NHL. Both guys don't need that stylistic adjustment and the talent jump from NCAA/Liiga to the AHL is not so steep that it's necessary.

 

[member 300185]

It's even tougher in big hockey markets with so much expectations. The Habs management would be stupid to rush the young prospects at this stage. However, I don't have much faith with Bergevin trying to keep his job. I am pretty sure he is trying to sell a youth movement (sooner rather than later) to Molson.

I'm just hoping he doesn't offload Koka like he did Sergachev for peanuts....or magic beans.

 

[CHwest]

I'm just hoping he doesn't offload Koka like he did Sergachev for peanuts....or magic beans.

As the binman says hold my beer and watch this.

 

[Habs]

I'm just hoping he doesn't offload Koka like he did Sergachev for peanuts....or magic beans.

But we got more french when we got rid of that stupid Russian. Clearly we need less Russians and more French.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm just hoping he doesn't offload Koka like he did Sergachev for peanuts....or magic beans.

I don't think this is happening with Kotkaniemi. And I don't think the Sergachev for Drouin trade was bad where Drouin is peanuts or magic beans. Kotkaniemi is not a short term project and he will be given plenty of time to mature into a top 2 center role on the Habs. It will take time, Kotkaniemi is a very young prospect.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Poehling is on track to replace Plekanec next season. Kotkaniemi hopefully is ready in a year too. Both guys are playing against men, so they don't need the AHL adjustment. Playing in the AHL is mostly for the stylistic adjustment between run and gun junior hockey and the structured and physical mens hockey of the NHL. Both guys don't need that stylistic adjustment and the talent jump from NCAA/Liiga to the AHL is not so steep that it's necessary.

I think both can be NHL ready next year (2019/2020) but I rather not insert them into our roster. A lot depends on how the next 12 months go though. But at this stage, knowing what we know today, I think we should be conservative with them and get the value on their ELC starting at age 20+. I would like both to start the year in the AHL after the next season.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I'd like to see two more years away from the NHL. One more year in the Liiga league and then one year in the AHL where he is called up towards the end of the year. He makes the NHL as a 20 year old.

I'd like to see both Poehling and Kotkaniemi play in the AHL after next year and be inserted into the NHL at the same time. Let them share the spotlight.

Perfect, and then the year after that - Hughes. Make sure Hughes gets the Red Wings treatment too!

 

[417]

video of Kotkaniemi speaking Finnish and working out

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

video of Kotkaniemi speaking Finnish and working out

Wow. He spoke a lot of Finnish in that video. Nice.

 

[BB88]

Kotkaniemi: Special meetings on the horizon

"Since departing for Finland following Development Camp, the young centerman has focused his efforts training-wise on improving his skating. He's hoping the results will show come the start of Rookie Camp in Brossard in early September.
"I work with my dad and one of our assistant coaches. He's a skating coach. The guys at Development Camp were great skaters, so I think I needed to improve after that," explained Kotkaniemi. "I think I've gotten better and I'll be better when I come back. I'm looking forward to coming back there."

 

[jaffy27]

If any of this is true, it sure doesn't make a lot of sense...

Typically the guy who performs worse at the combine has essentially better value because it means they have room to improve. If Zadina is producing as well as he is while being in sub-optimal shape, that means in theory with a pro workout regime he'll be even better. Kotka, in comparison, has less room to grow.

And if they're basing it on international competition, well, Kotkaniemi wasn't even at the U20s where Zadina out up 7 goals in 7 games, so saying Kotka had more impact in "big games" (whatever that means) doesn't really mean anything...

Or maybe with Kotkaniemi it’s genetics??

Kotka at 6’2 1/2 is only 185lbs.....lots of room to grow in that body. Kotka may just be genetically a better athlete with superior stamina, agility and strength......Kotka seems that he will attain 100% of his physical capabilities while Zadina may only attain 70%???......but even if they both attain 100% of who they can become, who’s the better athlete?

I’ll add in that Kotka is also a big centre with excellent IQ and a flair for the offence, I’m happy with the pick and it fills an organizational need, mind you I wouldn’t have been ultra sad had we picked Zadina either.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[KevSkillz4]

If Kotkaniemi play 9 game :

Domi - Drouin - Gallagher.
Pacioretty - Danault - Scherbak.
Lehkonen - Kotkaniemi - Armia.
Hudon - Plekanec - Byron.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Adam Michaels]