Prospect Info: Jesperi Kotkaniemi

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A55P2

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I'd have to think that he'll go to camp. He's already very good with his Liiga team, it's not like he'll suddenly fall of in play once he goes back.
 

Playmaker09

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Typically the guy who performs worse at the combine has essentially better value because it means they have room to improve. If Zadina is producing as well as he is while being in sub-optimal shape, that means in theory with a pro workout regime he'll be even better. Kotka, in comparison, has less room to grow.

I'm not a believer of this at all.

You don't just go from being bad relative to a bunch of 17 year olds, 95% of whom will never make the NHL, to good relative to some of the best athletes on the planet.

Let's take Scherbak for example. Great raw talent but he's been weak on his skates since before we drafted him. So he spends a year in junior where he develops his strength to the point were it's quite good relative to junior aged players. Next year, he moves to the AHL where he, once again, needs to play catch up with those around him because he's one of the weakest guys in his league; the AHL being a more exclusive league where most of the weaker players from junior get left behind. He spends three years devloping the necessary strength to actually be able to display his talent at that level. Now we're in year 5 and he's promoted to an even stronger league, the NHL, where he's again among the lowest percentile in strength and who knows how long it will take for him to get to where he needs to be.

Now obviously injuries have delayed/derailed his progress. But that's an expected factor given that a longer development time means theres a lot more room for things to go wrong within that process.

On the other hand, you have Gallagher, who was always among the best player's I've seen at winning 50/50 battles along the boards. He then worked his ass off to maintain that advantage over his opponents into the AHL and NHL where he remains one of the best at what he does.

Just like you wouldn't expect Galchenyuk to learn to skate like Byron after working on his skating, you shouldn't expect someone who's underdeveloped physically to just turn that into a strength. That's how you end up with a 1st overall pick like RNH who's still a twig 7 years later. Or Sam Bennett who couldn't do a chin up.
 
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Habs Halifax

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I'd have to think that he'll go to camp. He's already very good with his Liiga team, it's not like he'll suddenly fall of in play once he goes back.

He's going to camp. It's good for his development. He gets to evaluation himself against NHL players with pre season games and possibly a few NHL games. After this, he goes back to his Liiga team and can work on his game for the rest of the year.

A little taste of the NHL is a good thing IMO.
 

Mrb1p

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He's going to camp. It's good for his development. He gets to evaluation himself against NHL players with pre season games and possibly a few NHL games. After this, he goes back to his Liiga team and can work on his game for the rest of the year.

A little taste of the NHL is a good thing IMO.
Elias Pettersson, Heiskanen, Vesalainen, Tolvanen, Glass, Peohling, etc. They all went straight back to their team and they progressed beautifully. Why do we take the risk of him having a slow start in Liiga?
 

DramaticGloveSave

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Apr 17, 2017
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I'm not a believer of this at all.

You don't just go from being bad relative to a bunch of 17 year olds, 95% of whom will never make the NHL, to good relative to some of the best athletes on the planet.

Let's take Scherbak for example. Great raw talent but he's been weak on his skates since before we drafted him. So he spends a year in junior where he develops his strength to the point were it's quite good relative to junior aged players. Next year, he moves to the AHL where he, once again, needs to play catch up with those around him because he's one of the weakest guys in his league; the AHL being a more exclusive league where most of the weaker players from junior get left behind. He spends three years devloping the necessary strength to actually be able to display his talent at that level. Now we're in year 5 and he's promoted to an even stronger league, the NHL, where he's again among the lowest percentile in strength and who knows how long it will take for him to get to where he needs to be.

Now obviously injuries have delayed/derailed his progress. But that's an expected factor given that a longer development time means theres a lot more room for things to go wrong within that process.

On the other hand, you have Gallagher, who was always among the best player's I've seen at winning 50/50 battles along the boards. He then worked his ass off to maintain that advantage over his opponents into the AHL and NHL where he remains one of the best at what he does.

Just like you wouldn't expect Galchenyuk to learn to skate like Byron after working on his skating, you shouldn't expect someone who's underdeveloped physically to just turn that into a strength. That's how you end up with a 1st overall pick like RNH who's still a twig 7 years later. Or Sam Bennett who couldn't do a chin up.
One can spin this debate either way
 

Habs Halifax

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Elias Pettersson, Heiskanen, Vesalainen, Tolvanen, Glass, Peohling, etc. They all went straight back to their team and they progressed beautifully. Why do we take the risk of him having a slow start in Liiga?

Don't matter to me either way.. But I would prefer him in our camp and getting a taste of the NHL. I don't think it affects his season with Liiga. The goal is for him to reach his ceiling and the more exposure he gets with other type players (better and older than him), the better. His learning curve is steep at the moment. Test him with tougher competition and his personal ceiling bar is raised. An NHL camp, pre season games, and a few NHL games is a good thing IMO. But I don't want him making our team... even if he does well in those NHL games. I just want him to get a taste of it so he can measure himself at how much better he needs to be.

At a young age you always learn by playing against older and better players (works in all sports really). With Ligga, he is playing against some men and it's a good thing. However, he does stand to learn even more by attending an NHL camp and playing in a few games IMO.

I will counter you with Sergachev for example. He got a taste of NHL action and went back to junior to work on his overall game. We can play the name game all day long.
 
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L4br3cqu3

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Even though I'm not sure if it'd be a bad thing or not, I still think he'll be in camp, you can be sure MB will want to showcase him.

I just f***ing hope he goes back to his team, whether he looks good or not.
 
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Mrb1p

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Don't matter to me either way.. But I would prefer him in our camp and getting a taste of the NHL. I don't think it affects his season with Liiga. The goal is for him to reach his ceiling and the more exposure he gets with other type players (better and older than him), the better. His learning curve is steep at the moment. Test him with tougher competition and his personal ceiling bar is raised. An NHL camp, pre season games, and a few NHL games is a good thing IMO. But I don't want him making our team... even if he does well in those NHL games. I just want him to get a taste of it so he can measure himself at how much better he needs to be.

At a young age you always learn by playing against older and better players (works in all sports really). With Ligga, he is playing against some men and it's a good thing. However, he does stand to learn even more by attending an NHL camp and playing in a few games IMO.

I will counter you with Sergachev for example. He got a taste of NHL action and went back to junior to work on his overall game. We can play the name game all day long.
Its pointless and its only an exercise to make Bergevin look good and to appease the fans.

The "measuring stick" argument doesnt work, hes going to play in the preseason at best... where no one but rookies take it seriously.
 

Habs Halifax

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Its pointless and its only an exercise to make Bergevin look good and to appease the fans.

The "measuring stick" argument doesnt work, hes going to play in the preseason at best... where no one but rookies take it seriously.

I don't think this is about Bergevin

How can you say he only plays in preseason games at best? What are your reasons why to you think he won't get a few NHL games?
 
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SpeedyPotato

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Its pointless and its only an exercise to make Bergevin look good and to appease the fans.

The "measuring stick" argument doesnt work, hes going to play in the preseason at best... where no one but rookies take it seriously.
I totally disagree with you. I can say from personal experience that knowing what you need to improve through direct experimentation is the best motivator. People can tell you what you need to work on sure, but nothing beats seeing it and experiencing for yourself. I think he should be at camp and play a few games if he does well too, then he goes back to his team knowing where he has to be in terms of his skills to stick next year.
 

Habs Halifax

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Because hes not good enough and its even worse if he plays regular season games.

Don't agree it's even worse if he plays some regular season games. If he struggles in pre season and we force it yeah. But it all depends how he looks in camp and in those preseason games. I am all for testing him and giving him a taste of NHL action. It a very good measure for him to realize where he needs to work at his game.
 

Habs

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What is best for the kid?

Answer: Leave him in Liiga, let him start the preseason with his team.

What is best for Bergevin?

Bring him to training camp so he can showcase him to the clueless fans who were upset when we drafted him.View attachment 134763

Bergevin will do what he thinks is best for Bergevin.

That image was the second best clip from the draft, if you know what I'm saying? If you caught the blonde ahead of her.
 

417

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Elias Pettersson, Heiskanen, Vesalainen, Tolvanen, Glass, Peohling, etc. They all went straight back to their team and they progressed beautifully. Why do we take the risk of him having a slow start in Liiga?
Heiskanen was slated to attend the Stars camp but he got hurt at their development camp, so they decided to send him back.

Poehling couldn't attend training camp since he's enrolled in college

As for the other examples you provided, I can provide you of other examples of kids who went straight to the AHL/NHL after their draft and they're doing just fine.

David Pastrnak comes to mind, Filip Chytil last year handled himself just fine.
 

muzion

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Don't agree it's even worse if he plays some regular season games. If he struggles in pre season and we force it yeah. But it all depends how he looks in camp and in those preseason games. I am all for testing him and giving him a taste of NHL action. It a very good measure for him to realize where he needs to work at his game.
Sergachev clearly wasn't ready for the pro game at 18 I said it from the start. He was in over his head and looked like he got a concussion in his 4th game, although the team claims he didn't. He ended up skating solo for a couple weeks before being sent back to junior. It took a month for him to get back into a groove.

We're so desperate for size and skill that it will be tempting to keep Kotkaniemi up and see what he can do. Jobs are on the line and Bergevin is on record saying that a 3rd overall pick should be able to come in and play right away. Even though he has retracted his statement, it doesn't sound like someone who wants to pay it safe.
 

Mrb1p

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Don't agree it's even worse if he plays some regular season games. If he struggles in pre season and we force it yeah. But it all depends how he looks in camp and in those preseason games. I am all for testing him and giving him a taste of NHL action. It a very good measure for him to realize where he needs to work at his game.
Youre a broken record at times. He needs to get stronger. I dont give a rats ass if he can put up 30 next year, i want him to be an elite 1C.
 

David Suzuki

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I don't see the big issue with him going to camp. Most 18 year old top draftees attend pro camps right after being drafted.

This obsession with micro-managing something you can't even manage in the first place. I just don't get. There comes a point where our opinions are just worthless.

facts
 
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Mrb1p

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I don't see the big issue with him going to camp. Most 18 year old top draftees attend pro camps right after being drafted.

This obsession with micro-managing something you can't even manage in the first place. I just don't get. There comes a point where our opinions are just worthless.
The fact we post about hockey on a message board is pretty pointless
 
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