Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi- So You See That's Where The Trouble Began,That Smile,That Damned Smile Edition

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I want to address something that came up in the GDT last night.

Some posters, at the first sign of adversity from the youngest player in the league, saw fit to state that we should've picked Tkachuk or Zadina instead of Kotkaniemi because we have plenty of centre depth.

They cited Domi, Danault, Suzuki, Poehling as who we would have without KK. Someone even said "we don't need a #1C".

Context:
- We haven't had a true #1C since Koivu and even that is debatable.
- We didn't have Suzuki at the time of the draft. He hasn't played a game in the NHL. Many believe he'll be a winger at the NHL level.
- Poehling hasn't played a game in the NHL.
- We had just traded for Domi. Not many expected him to even play C let alone be as successful as he has been.
- Centres have more value on the market than wingers. Ideally you're not trading them away but if you have to, you get a better return. Can't have too many Cs.

Even with the C depth we have now, I wouldn't vote against the Habs continuing to draft high end centres.

Kotkaniemi was the right pick.

yeah I'm still happy with the pick though Tkachuk is making some posters look pretty foolish. The good thing is I hope Poehling has the same lack of upside that Tkachuk was supposed to have lol.

Loving Domi but I'm still a BIT skeptical. Poehling I'm not sure can be a top 6. I have to admit I'm kind of just buying way too much into Suzuki being a W. I guess more so because he'd fill a need there not so much as I don't think he can be a C in the NHL. Mind you, if I had to bet I'd say he'd be a W. Just might not be such a foregone conclusion as some seem to think.

KK/Domi/Poehling up the middle could be great going forward. You can build around that. We have Drouin, Gallagher and Tatar. Possibly Suzuki who could be 1st liner material. That's not bad but it would likely mean we'd have to have an absolutely stellar 3rd line.

 

[FloJack]

A famous USSR Head coach I think his name was Victor Tichonov once said that Bob Gainey was the most technically sound player in the world. This quote was from the mid 70’s.

If you're a hockey historian of any kind, I mean, this quote alone or any 70's Red Army praise for a Canadian hockey player, it just tells you all you need to know. Gainey was sick, disgusting, etc before those words were applied in positive ways, he's as OG as a hockey player can be.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Who thought that thread title was a good idea? Yikes

 

[Frank Drebin]

I have been hard on Gainey as a GM.

But I remember until his daughter died he was performing at a high level. Once he lost his daughter he fell apart and who can blame him.

Was the Gomez move before or after?

Kind of the defining moment of his management career.

 

[Tyson]

Was the Gomez move before or after?

Kind of the defining moment of his management career.

It was after

 

[Frank Drebin]

It was after

Yeah looking back at the articles she passed away early December 2006, gainey was hired iirc before the start of the 2003 season

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Just happy my mémé made it to hf sub culture.

 

[Scriptor]

I want to address something that came up in the GDT last night.

Some posters, at the first sign of adversity from the youngest player in the league, saw fit to state that we should've picked Tkachuk or Zadina instead of Kotkaniemi because we have plenty of centre depth.

They cited Domi, Danault, Suzuki, Poehling as who we would have without KK. Someone even said "we don't need a #1C".

Context:
- We haven't had a true #1C since Koivu and even that is debatable.
- We didn't have Suzuki at the time of the draft. He hasn't played a game in the NHL. Many believe he'll be a winger at the NHL level.
- Poehling hasn't played a game in the NHL.
- We had just traded for Domi. Not many expected him to even play C let alone be as successful as he has been.
- Centres have more value on the market than wingers. Ideally you're not trading them away but if you have to, you get a better return. Can't have too many Cs.

Even with the C depth we have now, I wouldn't vote against the Habs continuing to draft high end centres.

Kotkaniemi was the right pick.

With the crop of Cs this year, if we don't make the playoffs and get to pick 15th or better, there might well be another C that would be the best pick at that draft ranking. I'd still look at doing that, but the pressure to land the best available LHD will be high, IMO and pst the 10th pick overall, picking for need might be the right way to go.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

He's so close to breaking out, execution isn't always there but he tries to make the right play most of the time and is gaining confidence to attempt some higher skilled plays

Great play on Shaw's GWG to recognize the situation, create the turnover and get it down low to JD

Good to see his minutes up, hopefully stays in that 15-16 min range

 

[Kraken Jokes]

With the crop of Cs this year, if we don't make the playoffs and get to pick 15th or better, there might well be another C that would be the best pick at that draft ranking. I'd still look at doing that, but the pressure to land the best available LHD will be high, IMO and pst the 10th pick overall, picking for need might be the right way to go.

I would've liked McIsaac over Ylonen with our first 2nd round pick.

 

[ahmedou]

Who thought that thread title was a good idea? Yikes

Yikes same t yu

 

[Favster]

From what I've seen in his Liga games, he seemed quite succesful on the left board on the powerplay. Given our lack of right handed pure shooters, I'd like to see him get a shot there.​

 

[Naslund]

I have been hard on Gainey as a GM.

But I remember until his daughter died he was performing at a high level. Once he lost his daughter he fell apart and who can blame him.

Gainey was a great GM. He made the team relevant again in the early 2000, slowly building us into a 2008 contending team that was undone by a crazy injury-riddled season and a young hot stuff goalie (Price) not quite ready for the big show. Some of us are old enough to remember the 1996-2002 pre-Gainey years. It's not like Gainey came in and took over great assets to build his team. He also reset the team on the fly after 2009 when it was became clear that the Koivu/Kovalev core was done and not going to take you anywhere in the future. His 2010 team gave us the most exciting hockey experience over the last 25 years. It's easy to see now that keeping McDonagh over acquiring Gomez was a better long-term move, but at the time, Mcdonagh did not look like he was going to be a great D, and again, that trade was the reason were able to get the new core of Gomez, Gionta, and Cammelari.

 

[Born in 1909]

Yeah looking back at the articles she passed away early December 2006, gainey was hired iirc before the start of the 2003 season

My first post upon joining HF in 2007, was offering public sympathy to Mr. Gainey for having his daughter taken from him. The investigation into her accident was ongoing and still in the news at that point. There was a CBC Passionate Eye story or something like that on TV.

I remember being very unimpressed by the callous & unsympathetic attitude of some hf posters.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Bergevin confirms Kotkaniemi won't be loaned to the wjc team

 

[Born in 1909]

Anyway, this is a Kotkaniemi thread...

Like him... and Domi... alot!

 

[dinodebino]

Bergevin confirms Kotkaniemi won't be loaned to the wjc team

Massive decision. For Suomi as much as the kid and the Habs. Kid will be staying in Mtl all season. Not that surprised, really. His mum is here full time with son.

 

[yianik]

Kotkaniemi not the right pick ?

My position was that if they thought he could be a 1C , then take him. And I had liked him for a bit before.

But Kotkaniemi was not being called a franchise C like Matthew's or generational talent like Crosby etc.

When I see people suggesting we trade Suzuki, Poehling , I shake my head.

Domi is looking real good, and this may be who he truly is, in which case this is a breakthrough, but let's see at seasons end , and see how he does next year.

What we have is a good quality pool of top 6C possibilities. POSSIBILITIES. Fir the 1st time in years we have this. While I think very unlikely, it is possible none of them pan out. It is possible just one pans out.

We trade Suzuki, and what if he was actually the 1C guy ? That would suck, wouldnt it ?

You hang onto each one of our " darts", and we eventually see how they all do at the NHL level.

Keeping them all is the safest and best way of realizing full value. Trade Suzuki now and you get back the value for a good prospect. If say Kotkaniemi is a 1C and Domi a 2C, and Suzuki can be a 2C as well, well then Suzuki commands a lot more back in value if teams see he can play as a 2C rhan he does as a good prospect.

In order to make good trades you have to have quality depth at a given position, then you trade from a position of strength.

So st the next draft, if the BPA for us is a centre , take the centre, unless we can move up to snag a BPA D man.

 

[1909]

Kotkaniemi not the right pick ?

My position was that if they thought he could be a 1C , then take him. And I had liked him for a bit before.

But Kotkaniemi was not being called a franchise C like Matthew's or generational talent like Crosby etc.

When I see people suggesting we trade Suzuki, Poehling , I shake my head.

Domi is looking real good, and this may be who he truly is, in which case this is a breakthrough, but let's see at seasons end , and see how he does next year.

What we have is a good quality pool of top 6C possibilities. POSSIBILITIES. Fir the 1st time in years we have this. While I think very unlikely, it is possible none of them pan out. It is possible just one pans out.

We trade Suzuki, and what if he was actually the 1C guy ? That would suck, wouldnt it ?

You hang onto each one of our " darts", and we eventually see how they all do at the NHL level.

Keeping them all is the safest and best way of realizing full value. Trade Suzuki now and you get back the value for a good prospect. If say Kotkaniemi is a 1C and Domi a 2C, and Suzuki can be a 2C as well, well then Suzuki commands a lot more back in value if teams see he can play as a 2C rhan he does as a good prospect.

In order to make good trades you have to have quality depth at a given position, then you trade from a position of strength.

So st the next draft, if the BPA for us is a centre , take the centre, unless we can move up to snag a BPA D man.

Centermen are very precious. You keep them all. At worst, you put some on the wings.

 

[Cobra Commander]

I have been hard on Gainey as a GM.

But I remember until his daughter died he was performing at a high level. Once he lost his daughter he fell apart and who can blame him.

100% accurate

 

[groovejuice]

A famous USSR Head coach I think his name was Victor Tichonov once said that Bob Gainey was the most technically sound player in the world. This quote was from the mid 70’s.

I recall that. I believe it was around the time of the first New Years Eve game between the Habs and Red Army, known today as CSKA Moscow.

High praise indeed from one of the finest hockey minds in modern Russian hockey.

 

[groovejuice]

I don't think Gainey should've retired his own number. I never saw him play but I saw him GM... woof. At least Bergevin knows he was a (long-tenured) scrub.

I'm sure he was encouraged by ownership. I wouldn't read anything into it besides that. Gainey was always and remains a very humble man.

 

[Mrb1p]

Jesperi showing off some skills, though I think these moves don't do him justice.


He says
"I'm big guy, I like to go in corner and battle hard, thats my thing."
"I'm mostly a playmaker, I like to find open lanes, thats my things."
"But I also have good shat."

 

[sheed36]

Jesperi showing off some skills, though I think these moves don't do him justice.


He says
"I'm big guy, I like to go in corner and battle hard, thats my thing."
"I'm mostly a playmaker, I like to find open lanes, thats my things."
"But I also have good shat."

You getting a wee bit too personal there Jesperi.

 

[Mrb1p]

You getting a wee bit too personal there Jesperi.

I laughed too hard at his accent to not put it in