Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part X)

[Spearmint Rhino]

I'm expecting a sophomore slump this year and people losing their minds saying that Tkachuk should have been the pick. Then in the future Kotkaniemi will be a 65-75 point center while Tkachuk is a 40-50 point winger and the critics will magically disappear.

Would be interesting to read the Panthers forum for Barkovs first couple of seasons

 

[The Great Weal]

Close to no PP time? Kotkaniemi averaged 2 min last season.

You realize Domi played with those same "plugs" and scored 72 pts last season.
Pettersson is even better than Domi, but he wouldn't be able to score 50 playing with Drouin/Lehkonen/Armia/Weal? ok

Drouin and Weal are much better offensively than Lehkonen and Armia

 

[Archijerej]

Drouin and Weal are much better offensively than Lehkonen and Armia

Not sure about Lehkonen, as he produces as much as Drouin on even strength, but I'm not going to argue this point. But can we at least quit with the "Kotkaniemi is not getting any powerplay time" thing?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Drouin and Weal are much better offensively than Lehkonen and Armia

In my earlier post I said kotkaniemi was playing with Drouin and Weal, but apparently they are plugs as well and KK would have a hard time producing more than last season playing with those 2.

 

[TannedBum]

Drouin and Weal are much better offensively than Lehkonen and Armia

 

[THE HOFF]

Its a waste to give Danault Gallagher and Tatar because A) hes the matchup line and he loses every matchup hes in on decent teams. B) Hes just not good enough offensively. C) Gally and Tatar have the puck less often because its a matchup line.

A) false (hello EVP numbers)
B) false (hello EVP numbers)
C) false (hello EVP numbers)

congrats on the hat trick.

has it ever occurred to you that Danault and gallagher might have a playing style that brings the best out of each other ? simple question.

 

[Kriss E]

Close to no PP time? Kotkaniemi averaged 2 min last season.

You realize Domi played with those same "plugs" and scored 72 pts last season.
Pettersson is even better than Domi, but he wouldn't be able to score 50 playing with Drouin/Lehkonen/Armia/Weal? ok

So what man? Domi just had his first great season, it's his 4th season. He scored 18goals in the two previous seasons together. How come he couldn't put up 70+pts in Arizona?...

You're not making much sense.

 

[G0bias]

Great centers can produce in any roles with any linemates.

I wonder how Kekäläinen feels after sending a 1st and a 2nd so Vegas would pick Karlsson, without ever putting him in a situation to show what he had.

 

[cphabs]

Danault would be playing third line on contenders and 2nd on most other teams. KK would have been in the AHL with most other teams.

I completely disagree. A “contender” would have the latitude to develop Coconut as an offensive player. Danualt types, would fill support roles as the kid matures. See what is happening with Sergachev as an example.

 

[Habs Icing]

I wonder how Kekäläinen feels after sending a 1st and a 2nd so Vegas would pick Karlsson, without ever putting him in a situation to show what he had.

wrong post ...deleted

 

[ZUKI]

In the inter-squad scrimmage?


No, i'm not asking for Kotkaniemi to get a promotion...what i'm asking or what I would have hoped for is for the coaching staff to have had a bit more of an open mind as to what Kotkaniemi could provide this year.

What would it have hurt to have seen Kotkaniemi play with Gallagher this preseason?


Drouin since about game 60 last year has been in CJ's dog house, he's the least used forward at ES...so the fact he's playing LW with Kotkaniemi should give you an idea of the role Kotkaniemi has heading into this year.

Jordan Weal is a good player but he's also going to be on the top PP unit...you know who won't be?

Kotkaniemi

Given these circumstances...he's facing an uphill battle to show any progress this year.

The coaching staff isn't invested in it...so don't expect it.

Habs know what they get with KK . They didn't with Suzuki . They didn't know witch
Drouin they will get the "A"or the "B"? . Both Evans and Belzile did better than KK so deserved to be there for a while . Point is new and Weal only played 16 games with the team .

Don't put too much conclusions about a training camp. It isn't finished yet , lines will change at the beginning of the season after few games

 

[417]

I think so too. I had him one year in Finland, one in the AHL. I've seen this story too much here in Montreal. The fans aren't patient enough with young players and they're either surprised when unrealistic expectations aren't met or get on their back when, and keep in mind some like Galchy and KK are/were still teens when this happened, they go through a completelt nornal and expected phase of struggling. It's just harder for them to go through it if all of the media and half the fans are putting pressure on you when at 19-20-21 you should be concentrating on working out the kinks in your game.

So maybe the issue here isn't him or how he should have stayed in Finland and then played the AHL.

 

[417]

Habs know what they get with KK . They didn't with Suzuki . They didn't know witch
Drouin they will get the "A"or the "B"? . Both Evans and Belzile did better than KK so deserved to be there for a while . Point is new and Weal only played 16 games with the team .

Don't put too much conclusions about a training camp. It isn't finished yet , lines will change at the beginning of the season after few games

Oh I'm definitely not putting stock into the preseason.

I would have just liked to have seen CJ entertain the thought that Kotkaniemi could be an option in the top 6...

What better time then the preseason to try that?

 

[ZUKI]

Weal was an offensive force who before but was stocked in Arizona because they have good offensive players in front of him . It's still a project but he could be a good move from Bergevin . We'll see . 10 points in 16 games last season by the way . Lehky 31 in 82

 

[cphabs]

So maybe the issue here isn't him or how he should have stayed in Finland and then played the AHL.

The “issue” is?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I wonder how Kekäläinen feels after sending a 1st and a 2nd so Vegas would pick Karlsson, without ever putting him in a situation to show what he had.

By great center, I mean an elite player.
I dont consider Karlsson elite. Hes a good center. A better version of Danault basically.

So what man? Domi just had his first great season, it's his 4th season. He scored 18goals in the two previous seasons together. How come he couldn't put up 70+pts in Arizona?...

You're not making much sense.

Im not making much sense? Youre the one who dont think Kotkaniemi can produce more than last season playing with Drouin and Weal.

I never said Kotkaniemi should produce 70 pts with those guys. If he produces at ~50 pt pace, that should be enough to show that he is ready for more responsibility and possibly overtaking Domi as the number 1 center.

The Domi example doesnt help your case. He scored at around 50 pt pace in each season with arizona despite not playing with great players.

KK scored 34 pts as an 18 year old.
-More consistency, and thats a few more pts. He had only 2 pts in his last 14 games. He had 5 stretches of 4+games where he didnt record a point.
-Some road goals, thats a few more points.
-A better pp, and thats another few more pts.

With these simple improvements, he can already easily score 10 more pts.

And thats not even mentioning he plays with more offensive linemates now, and that if he is consistent his icetime wont drop like it did towards the end last year.

 

[417]

The “issue” is?

Fan expectation?

 

[G0bias]

By great center, I mean an elite player.
I dont consider Karlsson elite. Hes a good center. A better version of Danault basically.

Weren't you using Domi as an example a few posts ago?

You don't consider 43 goals and 78pts in 82 games great? (Danault, in his best season, scored 12)

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Weren't you using Domi as an example a few posts ago?

You don't consider 43 goals and 78pts in 82 games great? (Danault, in his best season, scored 12)

Do you think he will repeat that 78 pt seasons? It seems more like an outlier.

 

[Mrb1p]

Do you think he will repeat that 78 pt seasons? It seems more like an outlier.

Could Danaults season be a outlier?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Could Danaults season be a outlier?

I dont know but it doesnt matter regarding what im talking about

 

[G0bias]

Do you think he will repeat that 78 pt seasons? It seems more like an outlier.

Weren't you using Domi as an example a few posts ago?

Maybe second time's the charm.

I thought you only meant elite centers. Or is Domi one but not Karlsson?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Maybe second time's a charm.

?
Domi is better than karlsson, and I consider him in the lower part of elite

 

[G0bias]

?
Domi is better than karlsson, and I consider him in the lower part of elite

So Karlsson's season is put in doubt as an outlier while somehow Domi's isn't. Double standards much? This narrative doesn't hold mate.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

So Karlsson's season is put in doubt as an outlier while somehow Domi's isn't. Double standards much? This narrative doesn't hold mate.

Because Domi is more skilled and has the pedigree of a guy who can consistently score 70 pts?

Not to mention karlsson only scored 56 pts last season...