Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part X)

[Lshap]

Continued from last thread.

Click to read more...

 

[montreal]

I disagree with, if he couldn't handle it, he shouldn't be here. He was eased it as he should have been, at his best KK showed he belonged without a doubt, no reason to keep him out of the lineup.

Nothing is this black and white, some can come in and handle big minutes right off the bat, some can't, it doesn't mean they don't belong, period. I think it was clear that if his work load would have been higher it would have been detrimental to his performance. I thought he was handled decently well.

the problem is that's very risky thing to do with your 18 year old 3rd OA pick. Kotka means so much to our future and needed to mature physically. I like what the Nucks did with Pettersson, I'm a lean towards taking caution instead of taking a big risk with your biggest asset for the future of the organization.

If he did go to Liiga and wrecked the league like Pettersson did in the SHL, won gold with Team Finland at the WJC's, they could have brought him over this summer and he would hopefully be more physically mature. Then you hope Julien would trust him more and not shelter him so much, he's the 3rd OA for a reason, put him in out there in key spots and see how it works. If they thought he was ready for that, which he should be if they went that route.

 

[ottawa]

the problem is that's very risky thing to do with your 18 year old 3rd OA pick. Kotka means so much to our future and needed to mature physically. I like what the Nucks did with Pettersson, I'm a lean towards taking caution instead of taking a big risk with your biggest asset for the future of the organization.

If he did go to Liiga and wrecked the league like Pettersson did in the SHL, won gold with Team Finland at the WJC's, they could have brought him over this summer and he would hopefully be more physically mature. Then you hope Julien would trust him more and not shelter him so much, he's the 3rd OA for a reason, put him in out there in key spots and see how it works. If they thought he was ready for that, which he should be if they went that route.

I know Poehling and Suzuki weren't 3rd OA, but that's what I'm hoping they do with them since they were both developed in the juniors/college until deemed NHL ready. I get giving them lesser roles but please don't shelter them on the 3rd/4th line...give them opportunities to shine first, and then take it from there.

If they prove to be ineffective then put them in the bottom 6 as long as it's not hindering their development (due to lack of playing time/effective role) or else just send them back down a la Pacioretty, no harm in that

The problem is we have too many people who don't belong in the top 6.

Tatar - Domi - Gallagher
Drouin - Danault - Byron

Danault and Byron should be replaced with Korkaniemi and someone with potential like Suzuki, who should be given a fair shot there...or Poehling if you want to start him off on the wings. If they don't work out, then swap Byron back in. The problem is Julien doesn't seem to trust rookies enough to give them an extended look.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I think the additions of Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Romanov etc. can only help KK by deflecting some of the pressure from him so he can focus on his game and not have the hopes of the entire franchise solely on his shoulders. That and another year of maturing physically and mentally and I think he can hit 40-50 points this year on the 3rd line with more PP time. I’d only hope we can get him more offensive players than just defensive plugs he’s used to playing with so he can cultivate his offensive game more this year.

 

[Milhouse40]

I think the additions of Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Romanov etc. can only help KK by deflecting some of the pressure from him so he can focus on his game and not have the hopes of the entire franchise solely on his shoulders. That and another year of maturing physically and mentally and I think he can hit 40-50 points this year on the 3rd line with more PP time. I’d only hope we can get him more offensive players than just defensive plugs he’s used to playing with so he can cultivate his offensive game more this year.

You don't cultivate an offensive game by playing on the 3rd line where the quality minutes and linesmates goes to other players.

Why here in Montreal it always have to take 4 years for a prospect to make their way on the quality minutes?
Pettersson started as top line center in Vancouver as a 19yo, Hischier did it as a 18 years old….
Tkachuk was put on the top line in Ottawa right away as a 18yo.

Next year, Kotkaniemi should be centering the top line and get top PP minutes.

Might be tough, will make mistakes, will be overwhelmed at times and we will lose some games because of it but that's how you built with prospect, you live with the mistakes but you do what's necessary to built his offensive confidence.

For me, this should be our top 6 next year.

Domi - Kotkaniemi - Drouin
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher

Enough with the over protectionism of our prospect cause it never worked out anyway.
It's a young man's game so play the kid and live with it.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I know Poehling and Suzuki weren't 3rd OA, but that's what I'm hoping they do with them since they were both developed in the juniors/college until deemed NHL ready. I get giving them lesser roles but please don't shelter them on the 3rd/4th line...give them opportunities to shine first, and then take it from there.

If they prove to be ineffective then put them in the bottom 6 as long as it's not hindering their development (due to lack of playing time/effective role) or else just send them back down a la Pacioretty, no harm in that

The problem is we have too many people who don't belong in the top 6.

Tatar - Domi - Gallagher
Drouin - Danault - Byron

Danault and Byron should be replaced with Korkaniemi and someone with potential like Suzuki, who should be given a fair shot there...or Poehling if you want to start him off on the wings. If they don't work out, then swap Byron back in. The problem is Julien doesn't seem to trust rookies enough to give them an extended look.

Danault is a 2c and I'm happy with it. In a perfect world we would do KK/Poehling as our 1-2 punch, but Danault proved he was a real 2c

 

[Sterling Archer]

You don't cultivate an offensive game by playing on the 3rd line where the quality minutes and linesmates goes to other players.

Why here in Montreal it always have to take 4 years for a prospect to make their way on the quality minutes?
Pettersson started as top line center in Vancouver as a 19yo, Hischier did it as a 18 years old….
Tkachuk was put on the top line in Ottawa right away as a 18yo.

Next year, Kotkaniemi should be centering the top line and get top PP minutes.

Might be tough, will make mistakes, will be overwhelmed at times and we will lose some games because of it but that's how you built with prospect, you live with the mistakes but you do what's necessary to built his offensive confidence.

For me, this should be our top 6 next year.

Domi - Kotkaniemi - Drouin
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher

Enough with the over protectionism of our prospect cause it never worked out anyway.
It's a young man's game so play the kid and live with it.

I don’t agree with most of your statement. Petersson is two years older than KK and played a full year in a men’s league before coming to NA. Van also didn’t have a 70 point center on their roster like Habs have in Domi. I had no problem with sheltering KK last year and not having him go up against the other teams top line as there was no way he could’ve handled it.

With another year under his belt and having apparently added some size and strength, I’d have no problem playing him on the 2nd line in lieu of Danault if he showed he could do it and handle the matchups. That being said, I’d also probably have him start on the 3rd line until he showed he was ready to move up and take on more responsibility. It’s easy to forget that he was the youngest kid in the NHL last year and is still only 19. That’s really f***ing young. Given we have a top line center right now and a good 2nd line one in Danault, I don’t see the hurry to move him on up until he shows he’s ready, which he simply hasn’t yet. The fade towards last year is a great example of that. He just didn’t have the juice or the experience to deal with games when they began to matter and the men came out to play in the stretch run.

Hopefully he’ll be that much better this year and I’d expect him to take the top spot within a year or two. Let’s see what he does at camp before making him the top line center.

 

[ottawa]

Danault is a 2c and I'm happy with it. In a perfect world we would do KK/Poehling as our 1-2 punch, but Danault proved he was a real 2c

That's true, but he's in the way of a potential #1C

Do you expect Kotkaniemi to make the jump from #3 to #1 and displace Domi?

We can run with Danault/Kotkaniemi/Poehling but that is far worse than Domi/Kotkaniemi/Danault and an instant playoff miss.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I think the additions of Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Romanov etc. can only help KK by deflecting some of the pressure from him so he can focus on his game and not have the hopes of the entire franchise solely on his shoulders. That and another year of maturing physically and mentally and I think he can hit 40-50 points this year on the 3rd line with more PP time. I’d only hope we can get him more offensive players than just defensive plugs he’s used to playing with so he can cultivate his offensive game more this year.

There’s no pressure on KK to be a first line center with Domi and Danault in the lineup.

 

[Sterling Archer]

There’s no pressure on KK to be a first line center with Domi and Danault in the lineup.

ORLY...

You don't cultivate an offensive game by playing on the 3rd line where the quality minutes and linesmates goes to other players.

Why here in Montreal it always have to take 4 years for a prospect to make their way on the quality minutes?
Pettersson started as top line center in Vancouver as a 19yo, Hischier did it as a 18 years old….
Tkachuk was put on the top line in Ottawa right away as a 18yo.

Next year, Kotkaniemi should be centering the top line and get top PP minutes.

Might be tough, will make mistakes, will be overwhelmed at times and we will lose some games because of it but that's how you built with prospect, you live with the mistakes but you do what's necessary to built his offensive confidence.

For me, this should be our top 6 next year.

Domi - Kotkaniemi - Drouin
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher

Enough with the over protectionism of our prospect cause it never worked out anyway.
It's a young man's game so play the kid and live with it.

 

[Milhouse40]

I don’t agree with most of your statement. Petersson is two years older than KK and played a full year in a men’s league before coming to NA. Van also didn’t have a 70 point center on their roster like Habs have in Domi. I had no problem with sheltering KK last year and not having him go up against the other teams top line as there was no way he could’ve handled it.

With another year under his belt and having apparently added some size and strength, I’d have no problem playing him on the 2nd line in lieu of Danault if he showed he could do it and handle the matchups. That being said, I’d also probably have him start on the 3rd line until he showed he was ready to move up and take on more responsibility. It’s easy to forget that he was the youngest kid in the NHL last year and is still only 19. That’s really ****ing young. Given we have a top line center right now and a good 2nd line one in Danault, I don’t see the hurry to move him on up until he shows he’s ready, which he simply hasn’t yet. The fade towards last year is a great example of that. He just didn’t have the juice or the experience to deal with games when they began to matter and the men came out to play in the stretch run.

Hopefully he’ll be that much better this year and I’d expect him to take the top spot within a year or two. Let’s see what he does at camp before making him the top line center.

And where Petersson showed he can play top line for the Nucks? In preseason?
Same goes for both names i've mentioned.
Example are all over the place, did they start Barzal in a bottom 6 role to start his career?

But i wasn't saying they should've done that last year, but they should do it next year.
I would also even think putting him on wing if it means more quality minutes just to build confidence.

And it's not about slowly moving Kotkaniemi up. He won't replace Danault cause that job means facing top opposition so if Kotkaniemi ever put numbers and get quality linesmates and ice-time, it's on our top offensive line and no where else.

Let's not take the same path than we took with Galchenyuk…..and it's a really similar path so far.

 

[admiralcadillac]

And where Petersson showed he can play top line for the Nucks? In preseason?
Same goes for both names i've mentioned.
Example are all over the place, did they start Barzal in a bottom 6 role to start his career?

But i wasn't saying they should've done that last year, but they should do it next year.
I would also even think putting him on wing if it means more quality minutes just to build confidence.

And it's not about slowly moving Kotkaniemi up. He won't replace Danault cause that job means facing top opposition so if Kotkaniemi ever put numbers and get quality linesmates and ice-time, it's on our top offensive line and no where else.

Let's not take the same path than we took with Galchenyuk…..and it's a really similar path so far.

Hate to break it to you but Kotkaniemi is two years younger than Pettersson and he is not Matt Barzal. Galchenyuk just wasn’t that good.

They also did start Barzal in a bottom 6 role... for two games before shipping him back to the WHL. If you’re trying to prove a point it’s well missed seeing as the habs actually played their rookie straight from the draft.

 

[Sterling Archer]

And where Petersson showed he can play top line for the Nucks? In preseason?
Same goes for both names i've mentioned.
Example are all over the place, did they start Barzal in a bottom 6 role to start his career?

But i wasn't saying they should've done that last year, but they should do it next year.
I would also even think putting him on wing if it means more quality minutes just to build confidence.

And it's not about slowly moving Kotkaniemi up. He won't replace Danault cause that job means facing top opposition so if Kotkaniemi ever put numbers and get quality linesmates and ice-time, it's on our top offensive line and no where else.

Let's not take the same path than we took with Galchenyuk…..and it's a really similar path so far.

If you don't want to repeat Chucky, why move KK to the wing. Besides, they are completely different players. Chucky couldn't play defense to save his life. KK is miles ahead of him in that regard. KK also doesn't have anywhere near the amount of skill that Petersson has or the high end speed that Barzal has. Habs also have the depth to not have to push him up if he's not ready to move up and as of end of last season, he was very obviously not ready to move up.

I'm not saying not to push him up but really, it's up to him. If he comes into camp and plays like a man possessed, then by all means, I'd move him up in the lineup, at center, but it's up to him to show it not us to imagine it.

 

[Milhouse40]

If you don't want to repeat Chucky, why move KK to the wing. Besides, they are completely different players. Chucky couldn't play defense to save his life. KK is miles ahead of him in that regard. KK also doesn't have anywhere near the amount of skill that Petersson has or the high end speed that Barzal has. Habs also have the depth to not have to push him up if he's not ready to move up and as of end of last season, he was very obviously not ready to move up.

I'm not saying not to push him up but really, it's up to him. If he comes into camp and plays like a man possessed, then by all means, I'd move him up in the lineup, at center, but it's up to him to show it not us to imagine it.

Okay, put him at camp with Domi and Drouin on his wing and see how it goes?
If you Don't do that, you'll never see how he would look in a top offensive role.

Galchenyuk….it's not about how good he was or putting him on the wing or not.

Winger or center, Galchenyuk couldn't get to play in a top offensive role with top quality minutes cause those roles were exclusive to Pacioretty on LW and DD at center, so we plugged him on the 3rd line or 2nd line with Plekanec facing top opposition. That's not how you develop your top offensive prospect.

 

[Tyson]

I have to believe that Kotkaniemi will be even better this year. One complete NHL season where he didn’t look out of place as an 18 year old. He is a year older, his body more physically mature. I know the famous “sophomore slump” could occur though. Bright future for this kid.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Okay, put him at camp with Domi and Drouin on his wing and see how it goes?
If you Don't do that, you'll never see how he would look in a top offensive role.

Galchenyuk….it's not about how good he was or putting him on the wing or not.

Winger or center, Galchenyuk couldn't get to play in a top offensive role with top quality minutes cause those roles were exclusive to Pacioretty on LW and DD at center, so we plugged him on the 3rd line or 2nd line with Plekanec facing top opposition. That's not how you develop your top offensive prospect.

I might try that but more realistically, I'd rather see him with Tatar and Gally on his wings at first and see how that goes.

Drouin Domi Weal
Tatar KK Gally
Byron Danault Armia
Lehkonen Cousins/Thompson McCarron etc...

 

[Milhouse40]

I might try that but more realistically, I'd rather see him with Tatar and Gally on his wings at first and see how that goes.

Drouin Domi Weal
Tatar KK Gally
Byron Danault Armia
Lehkonen Cousins/Thompson McCarron etc...

Maybe, but i always picture that one of your top lines has to faced the top opposition in the league and shut them down.
I doubt either KK and Domi can take on that role but like KK playing on the top line…... as long as we don't try, we won't know.

 

[montreal]

I know Poehling and Suzuki weren't 3rd OA, but that's what I'm hoping they do with them since they were both developed in the juniors/college until deemed NHL ready. I get giving them lesser roles but please don't shelter them on the 3rd/4th line...give them opportunities to shine first, and then take it from there.

I would rather see Suzuki in the AHL unless he's improved his skating, speed and added mass and strength. If he plays so well they can't send him down then great, if not don't rush him.

Poehling I actually would be fine with if he's the everyday 3rd or 4th line center as I don't think he's close to the skill level of Kotka.

 

[Eegs]

Domi - Kotkaniemi - Drouin
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher

I really like the looks of that for our top 2 lines!

 

[montreal]

I really like the looks of that for our top 2 lines!

agreed. you could then go,

Byron Poehling Leks
Weal Cousin Armia

 

[Eegs]

agreed. you could then go,

Byron Poehling Leks
Weal Cousin Armia

Pretty beastly forward group lined up like that. Not a ton of elite skill (yet), but very deep.

Can't wait until some of our D prospects round into form, I think we'll be in great shape.

 

[montreal]

Pretty beastly forward group lined up like that. Not a ton of elite skill (yet), but very deep.

Can't wait until some of our D prospects round into form, I think we'll be in great shape.

If Kotka, Suzuki, Poehling, Caufield, Brook, Romanov, Mete, Fleury, Juulsen, Harris, Ylonen, Primeau, Struble, Norlinder, etc... if they can get several or many of them to be solid NHLers with a few hitting the high end of their ceilings then the future looks very bright indeed for the Habs. That said only time will tell and with prospects it's very difficult to project NHL success let alone when you have so many that you need/hope will make it.

 

[Mrb1p]

Kotkaniemi needs Danaults winger, its plain and simple.

Danault can do what he did with Armia and Byron on his wings.

 

[montreal]

Kotkaniemi needs Danaults winger, its plain and simple.

Danault can do what he did with Armia and Byron on his wings.

The problem is what do they do with Drouin, his defensive game sucks and we all know CJ and defense. Then you have Domi who isn't great on draws (I don't feel like looking up the numbers) and he's not great in his own end. For the long term I would look at putting Domi Kotka Gallagher as a line as it would put Kotka in a position to have hard working wingers that can put the puck in the net and give him good speed on the wings while being a defensive solid line as well.

Drouin could then go on a line with Danault and Tatar. I know many will hate to break up the Danault line and more will hate moving Domi back to wing since he had such a good year. But we had those guys there and still didn't make the playoffs and to me this would be about doing what's best for the future, not trying to hope we make the wild card spot.

 

[poetryinmotion]

I think the additions of Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Romanov etc. can only help KK by deflecting some of the pressure from him so he can focus on his game and not have the hopes of the entire franchise solely on his shoulders. That and another year of maturing physically and mentally and I think he can hit 40-50 points this year on the 3rd line with more PP time. I’d only hope we can get him more offensive players than just defensive plugs he’s used to playing with so he can cultivate his offensive game more this year.

Granted I haven't been in here in a gazillion years but is this the general sentiment? Seems like fake news.