Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part IV

[Mrb1p]

No doubt he is smart. That is his biggest asset IMO. I would just like to see him have a bit more break open speed so he can create more time and space. And we all agree, strength will come in time.

I don't think he'll ever be that player. He's more of a, plant your feet and freight train, or dance around until there's space than a all out blazing speed player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think he'll ever be that player. He's more of a, plant your feet and freight train, or dance around until there's space than a all out blazing speed player.

Agreed but he can get better in skating. The question is how much and how does a improved skating ability translate his game when he has a bit more time and space to take advantage of his good vision.

I totally understand what you are saying towards his game today. His ability to protect the puck and cause turnovers is very impressive. He is very comfortable with that long stick and he knows how to use it.

He does tend to fall down at times and this is not a huge concern cause he lacks strength. Very curious to see what his game looks like towards the end of the year and what he does in the off season to take the next step next year.

 

[groovejuice]

Would he not hit that same proverbial wall if he didn't play in the NHL this year and came over next year? Same thing with hitting a slump.

15yr veterans hit slumps, why would keeping him away from the NHL make him less likely to hit a slump?

I'm not being sarcastic btw, truly curious to get your point of view on this as it's something i've often seen repeated and i'm not quite sure I get the logic behind it.


Maybe i'm forgetting Galchenyuk's rookie year, but i'm seeing more involvement in all 3 zones with Kotkaniemi than I ever did with Galchenyuk.

I saw maybe more natural finishing ability with Galchenyuk, but otherwise, I've found Kotkaniemi better prepared.

Perhaps that's just recency bias at play though.

Don't forget Chucky came directly to the NHL from Junior. I'll assume Kotkaniemi had superior development time in his year with Assat and possibly before that.

Regardless, there are no universal time frames for the development of kids. I will say that to me Jeppu looks like he possesses a much higher IQ than a lot of entry level prospects.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm assuming we don't send him to the world juniors? If we do, how do we factor in the Habs needs today vs Kotkaniemi's development? What is better, for him to play with us in whatever how many NHL games we play over the world junior span or to let him play in the world juniors where he gets to play against the best 18/19 year olds in the world?

What's more important to you? The Habs season this year or what is best for Kotkaniemi? Not saying it's best for Kotkaniemi to play in the world juniors for sure but isn't there a case to be made, it is?

 

[David Suzuki]

I'm assuming we don't send him to the world juniors? If we do, how do we factor in the Habs needs today vs Kotkaniemi's development? What is better, for him to play with us in whatever how many NHL games we plan over the world junior span or to let him play in the world juniors where he gets to play against the best 18/19 year olds in the world?

What's more important to you? The Habs season this year or what is best for Kotkaniemi? Not saying it's best for Kotkaniemi to play in the world juniors for sure but isn't there a case to be made, it is?

Unless the team and his play completley fall off there is zero benefit to sending him to the world juniors. Maybe less then zero.

 

[Mrb1p]

Don't forget Chucky came directly to the NHL from Junior. I'll assume Kotkaniemi had superior development time in his year with Assat and possibly before that.

Regardless, there are no universal time frames for the development of kids. I will say that to me Jeppu looks like he possesses a much higher IQ than a lot of entry level prospects.

Galchenyuk had half a year in the OHL to develop because of the lockout though, both missed time due to injury, but I think Jeppu is just a much smarter player system wise. Both had similar levels of skills and on-ice vision.

 

[Redux91]

I think they let him go to WJC anyway

for what we all think of bergevin, i think even he can see the WJC is something prospects love to play in, and the europeans probably take it to heart more than north americans it seems like these days

Bergevin probably takled to ducharme and bouchard somewhat about this but i think they would all be in agreement, if you CAN send someone to the tourney, i think you should let him

 

[Habs Halifax]

Unless the team and his play completley fall off there is zero benefit to sending him to the world juniors. Maybe less then zero.

Not sure I agree. I'm on the fence about it. I think having him measure himself against players his own age who are the best in the world and excelling has value.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think they let him go to WJC anyway

for what we all think of bergevin, i think even he can see the WJC is something prospects love to play in, and the europeans probably take it to heart more than north americans it seems like these days

Bergevin probably takled to ducharme and bouchard somewhat about this but i think they would all be in agreement, if you CAN send someone to the tourney, i think you should let him

I think it comes down to the Habs needs this year and what is best for Kotkaniemi.

 

[David Suzuki]

Not sure I agree. I'm on the fence about it. I think having him measure himself against players his own age who are the best in the world and excelling has value.

He already did measure himself against the best people in his age group when he went third overall in the draft. The World Junior is the most fun but overrated tournament in the world in terms of what it means for a players developement. Strictly a TSN invention. Like I said if he starts to suck or the team does send him so it's more fun for us but it probably does nothing for his developement.

 

[Saundies]

I'm assuming we don't send him to the world juniors? If we do, how do we factor in the Habs needs today vs Kotkaniemi's development? What is better, for him to play with us in whatever how many NHL games we play over the world junior span or to let him play in the world juniors where he gets to play against the best 18/19 year olds in the world?

What's more important to you? The Habs season this year or what is best for Kotkaniemi? Not saying it's best for Kotkaniemi to play in the world juniors for sure but isn't there a case to be made, it is?

There's a case to be made, but only if it makes sense. If his usage starts dropping or it looks like he's starting to get in over his head, definitely send him. If it looks like we're going to fall off a cliff in terms of winning and losing this year as well, send him.

I personally wouldn't send him if we're staying competitive and he's being put into positions to succeed (including getting a regular shift/some PP time).

 

[417]

I think they let him go to WJC anyway

for what we all think of bergevin, i think even he can see the WJC is something prospects love to play in, and the europeans probably take it to heart more than north americans it seems like these days

Bergevin probably takled to ducharme and bouchard somewhat about this but i think they would all be in agreement, if you CAN send someone to the tourney, i think you should let him

If the Habs by Xmas are still in the playoff race and CJ keeps depending on Kotkaniemi like he has, he's not going to take away an asset from his coach like that.

no way.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He already did measure himself against the best people in his age group when he went third overall in the draft. The World Junior is the most fun but overrated tournament in the world in terms of what it means for a players developement. Strictly a TSN invention. Like I said if he starts to suck or the team does send him so it's more fun for us but it probably does nothing for his developement.

No, I see that tournament as a great development test for 18 and 19 year olds.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There's a case to be made, but only if it makes sense. If his usage starts dropping or it looks like he's starting to get in over his head, definitely send him. If it looks like we're going to fall off a cliff in terms of winning and losing this year as well, send him.

I personally wouldn't send him if we're staying competitive and he's being put into positions to succeed (including getting a regular shift/some PP time).

So you support the Habs needs this season vs Kotkaniemi's development needs. Heck, it's like what, a half a month where he misses 6 or 7 NHL games?

Quite the reward you give him... If you struggle, you get to play in the world juniors this year buddy. If you don't, we keep you from playing for your country because we need you to fulfill a 3rd line role for us in those games you would miss.

This Rebound/Pride year is stupid. We already lost DLR because of it and Scherbak is being used as a rag doll

 

[Saundies]

So you support the Habs needs this season vs Kotkaniemi's development needs. Heck, it's like what, a half a month where he misses 6 or 7 NHL games?

I feel like people don't put enough emphasis on a young player playing everyday and doing well with NHL players. Everyone feels this need to put them back with their own age group or guys that would be typically be in their talent level. Sometimes this hurts the player: Look at what happened to Jake Virtanen. What if he goes to the tourny and gets injured? This isn't just valuing the Habs' interests.

 

[groovejuice]

No, I see that tournament as a great development test for 18 and 19 year olds.

Playing against the best in one's age group can only be a positive learning experience and quite often great for confidence.

But as @417 said, there's a very good chance Bergevin will take a short term rather than a long term view.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I feel like people don't put enough emphasis on a young player playing everyday and doing well with NHL players. Everyone feels this need to put them back with their own age group or guys that would be typically be in their talent level. Sometimes this hurts the player: Look at what happened to Jake Virtanen. What if he goes to the tourny and gets injured? This isn't just valuing the Habs' interests.

He would only be missing 6 or 7 NHL games. 75 other NHL games for him to learn on the job in the NHL. The more I think of it... 6 or 7 NHL games << A world Juniors tournament where he tests his skills against the best 18 and 19 year olds in the world.

My answer would be different if he was playing a top 2C role and we were cup contenders. I'm not on board with this Rebound/Pride season. IMO, it does not help us win a cup in the next decade and that's what's important for me as a Habs fan.

 

[Andrei79]

Galchenyuk had half a year in the OHL to develop because of the lockout though, both missed time due to injury, but I think Jeppu is just a much smarter player system wise. Both had similar levels of skills and on-ice vision.

 

[Saundies]

He would only be missing 6 or 7 NHL games. 75 other NHL games for him to learn on the job in the NHL. The more I think of it...

6 or 7 NHL games << A world Juniors where he tests his skills against the best 18 and 19 year olds in the world.

That's really easy to say, but I find NHLers that go down to the WJC never dominate like you think they will. RNH comes to mind, Mete last year wasn't exactly "omg, this guy is lights out." What if you send him there and he struggles a little? Is that a good thing for a young kid's confidence, or bad? You're assuming he wants to go as well. I know, if it were me, I'd rather be in the show making money and playing for my forever team rather than an under-19 tournament.

 

[tellermine]

Interesting to see can he handle full NHL season yet.

If not his level might drop at some point, when he gets just to tired.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's really easy to say, but I find NHLers that go down to the WJC never dominate like you think they will. RNH comes to mind, Mete last year wasn't exactly "omg, this guy is lights out." What if you send him there and he struggles a little? Is that a good thing for a young kid's confidence, or bad? You're assuming he wants to go as well. I know, if it were me, I'd rather be in the show making money and playing for my forever team rather than an under-19 tournament.

Mete was the best shutdown D in the tournament, I think he was "Omg this guys good" level.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's really easy to say, but I find NHLers that go down to the WJC never dominate like you think they will. RNH comes to mind, Mete last year wasn't exactly "omg, this guy is lights out." What if you send him there and he struggles a little? Is that a good thing for a young kid's confidence, or bad? You're assuming he wants to go as well. I know, if it were me, I'd rather be in the show making money and playing for my forever team rather than an under-19 tournament.

I'm not evaluating him on his ability to dominate. I am factoring in how this helps his development and he gets to measure his game against players his own age. It would be a refreshment drink in the middle of the season for him where learning on the job playing against the best players in the world can be draining.

Pretty sure the Habs can live without him for 6 or 7 games while he tries to win that tournament for his country. I think this is good for his development.

But wait, the Habs are in a rebound/pride season where we want to make the playoffs where anything can happen. We need our 18 year old kid who don't look out of place.

 

[417]

Playing against the best in one's age group can only be a positive learning experience and quite often great for confidence.

But as @417 said, there's a very good chance Bergevin will take a short term rather than a long term view.

Taking a player, who is contributing on an NHL team, out of its lineup to send them on an international tournament for 3 weeks would be short term...

So I think you got that the wrong way.

WJC's are nice, but it's not better than the NHL.

 

[Saundies]

Mete was the best shutdown D in the tournament, I think he was "Omg this guys good" level.

I don't think he dominated like he was supposed to, but for argument's sake, let's say he did. How has that dramatically helped this development this year?

 

[417]

I don't think he dominated like he was supposed to, but for argument's sake, let's say he did. How has that dramatically helped this development this year?

it didn't do a damn thing for his development...