Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part IV

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Saundies

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Jun 8, 2012
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well the Habs didn't agree with you since they opted to send Mete there vs playing NHL games. Although they clearly suck at development so that's not really a ringing endorsement.

I agree though, if the Habs are still doing well 5 or so weeks from now he wouldn't and shouldn't be going. But if they start to struggle then it wouldn't hurt to have him go there for 10 days or so.
This was my point from the start, but somehow it turned into me valuing the Habs success over Koko's development.
 

417

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well the Habs didn't agree with you since they opted to send Mete there vs playing NHL games. Although they clearly suck at development so that's not really a ringing endorsement
.
That probably had more to do with how the team was performing and the fact that he had been a healthy scratch a few times prior...

But what happened exactly?

He went to play for Team Canada for 3 weeks, formed one of the better shutdown pairs with Connor Timmins...came back, played a few weeks and got injured.

I'm not arguing whether or not the decision to have him graduate to the NHL last year was right, I do think they rushed him because they didn't have that type of Dman on the team.

So I don't think we're in disagreement there.

I'm just not as convinced as you are that "rushing" a player is what's affecting Mete right now...

I agree though, if the Habs are still doing well 5 or so weeks from now he wouldn't and shouldn't be going. But if they start to struggle then it wouldn't hurt to have him go there for 10 days or so.
Exactly how i feeel
 

groovejuice

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well the Habs didn't agree with you since they opted to send Mete there vs playing NHL games. Although they clearly suck at development so that's not really a ringing endorsement.

I agree though, if the Habs are still doing well 5 or so weeks from now he wouldn't and shouldn't be going. But if they start to struggle then it wouldn't hurt to have him go there for 10 days or so.

My only rebuttal to that is if they can't afford to lose a green 18yo for 3 weeks to prevent a slide, they're not going far anyway. Sending him may be even better this year as the tournament is on NA ice.
 

417

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My only rebuttal to that is if they can't afford to lose a green 18yo for 3 weeks to prevent a slide, they're not going far anyway. Sending him may be even better this year as the tournament is on NA ice.
I don't think that's the point...what team would amputate a part of their team, no matter what age they are, to go play in the WJC's.

I mean, if he's a bit player...OK

If the team is struggling...OK

But if he's a contributing player...that makes zero sense.

I know they're the Montreal Canadiens...but you might be taking that too literally lol
 

Habs Halifax

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Jul 11, 2016
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Nope...not one bit.

I won't have an full and complete idea of what type of C Poehling will be until he's played in the NHL a few years...

Well prior to this stage, you need to be able to have some form of idea so you can potentially address holes do future projections. Plans can change but you need a plan.
 

417

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Well prior to this stage, you need to be able to have some form of idea so you can potentially address holes do future projections. Plans can change but you need a plan.
I think there's a pretty good grasp or understanding of what Poehling's baseline is...

His upside won't be determined until he's played in the NHL for a few years.

Wouldn't you agree?
 
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Habs Halifax

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This was my point from the start, but somehow it turned into me valuing the Habs success over Koko's development.

No, that was a question for you that you didn't answer. I didn't pretend to put words in your mouth. I ask you a question and you assumed it was a preloaded question I guess.

It's weird to me. You send him if the team is struggling but you don't send him if we are not struggling. How is this not tied to the Habs success and the reasons why we would send him or not? The question was not answered as far I know. Can you clarify?
 

417

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No, that was a question for you that you didn't answer. I didn't pretend to put words in your mouth. I ask you a question and you assumed it was a preloaded question I guess.

It's weird to me. You send him if the team is struggling but you don't send him if we are not struggling. How is this not tied to the Habs success and the reasons why we would send him or not? The question was not answered as far I know. Can you clarify?
I think he means if the team is having success AND he's contributing to that success...it wouldn't make sense to send him.

But if they're having success AND he's scratched every other night and/or barely playing...then you send him to the WJC

or

If the team is struggling...then you send him to WJC

So his performance and the teams performance are tied together.
 

Habs Halifax

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I think he means if the team is having success AND he's contributing to that success...it wouldn't make sense to send him.

But if they're having success AND he's scratched every other night and/or barely playing...then you send him to the WJC

or

If the team is struggling...then you send him to WJC

So his performance and the teams performance are tied together.

So I was correct then. The value of the Habs success this season is worth more than sending Kotkaniemi to the World Juniors and experience he would have? :dunno:
 

417

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So I was correct then. The value of the Habs success this season is worth more than sending Kotkaniemi to the World Juniors and experience he would have? :dunno:
If Kotkaniemi is contributing to the teams success...then that should obviously trump whatever perceived (which I think is vastly exaggerated) benefit he would have from going to play for Team Finland at the WJC's.

Seems obvious.

Should the Canucks send Elias Petersson to the WJC's???

I mean, he's dominating the NHL...he could SUPER dominate the WJC's
 

groovejuice

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I don't think that's the point...what team would amputate a part of their team, no matter what age they are, to go play in the WJC's.

I mean, if he's a bit player...OK

If the team is struggling...OK

But if he's a contributing player...that makes zero sense.

I know they're the Montreal Canadiens...but you might be taking that too literally lol

Amputation is permanent. Are there really any players who will be invited who aren't contributing to their teams?
 

417

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Amputation is permanent. Are there really any players who will be invited who aren't contributing to their teams?
Figure of speech...bad choice of words, OK granted.

Point still remains.

Many teams decline the opportunity to send their players to the WJC, sometimes it's a good decision, other times it's bad.

If the WJC's would be tomorrow, again, I don't think it would make much sense to send him.
 

groovejuice

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Figure of speech...bad choice of words, OK granted.

Point still remains.

Many teams decline the opportunity to send their players to the WJC, sometimes it's a good decision, other times it's bad.

If the WJC's would be tomorrow, again, I don't think it would make much sense to send him.

Fair enough. I don't think there's a definitive answer. My prefernce is to let players experience the event unless they're obviously indispensable.
 

Redux91

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There are plenty of players who have played in the WJC's and never amounted to anything...

Jeremy Colliton played in the WJC's 1yr before Jonathan Toews did...

You know where he is today?

Coaching Jonathan Toews lol

Yes but was he drafted 3rd overall?
 

Redux91

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Cam Barker was...he played 2 WJC's, assistant Captain his 2nd year 6pts in 6 games his 2nd year.

I mean i get what youre saying, youre not saying "the WJC is bad for Kotka" , youre saying "is it really necessary" for him

Is it necessary? No
Would it be something helpful to him? well thats at least arguable

here's a great article on the subject were talking about with interesting points, The players questioned clearly loved the experience...but you can notice several people mentioning something that allures to what someone else said here about "TSN fabrication" and how really only Canada truly cares about this thing... but that doesnt mean it doesnt help potential NHL hockey players

Flames recall world-junior experiences as important stepping stones

Johnny Gaudreau
(2013 — gold for the Americans)
In Russia that year, Gaudreau scored seven times in seven games.
But that wasn’t his take-away highlight.
“For me, it was beating Canada (5-1) in the semifinal,” says Gaudreau. “Then we got the chance to go to the championship. It was my first pretty big international stage … and going pretty far in the tournament, it was pretty special to me.
“I think it helped me, moving forward in my career. After that one tournament, it pushed me to play a lot better (for Boston College). When I realized I could do it on a stage like that, it just gave me a lot more confidence to come back and play really well in college.”
 
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417

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I mean i get what youre saying, youre not saying "the WJC is bad for Kotka" , youre saying "is it really necessary" for him

Is it necessary? No
Would it be something helpful to him? well thats at least arguable

here's a great article on the subject were talking about with interesting points, The players questioned clearly loved the experience...but you can notice several people mentioning something that allures to what someone else said here about "TSN fabrication" and how really only Canada truly cares about this thing... but that doesnt mean it doesnt help potential NHL hockey players

Flames recall world-junior experiences as important stepping stones

Johnny Gaudreau
(2013 — gold for the Americans)
In Russia that year, Gaudreau scored seven times in seven games.
But that wasn’t his take-away highlight.
“For me, it was beating Canada (5-1) in the semifinal,” says Gaudreau. “Then we got the chance to go to the championship. It was my first pretty big international stage … and going pretty far in the tournament, it was pretty special to me.
“I think it helped me, moving forward in my career. After that one tournament, it pushed me to play a lot better (for Boston College). When I realized I could do it on a stage like that, it just gave me a lot more confidence to come back and play really well in college.”
I get it...again, I'm not arguing it's useless to go.

I just think people put way too much stock as to what it means for an NHL player.

I'll always remember when the Habs had Ribeiro, Chouinard and Ryder play for Team Canada at the WJC....

Canada was awful but guys like Brandon Reid and Jaime Lundmark put up points for Canada, same with Dany Heatley...

Ribeiro, Ryder, Brad Richard's struggled.

But they had much longer and more productive careers then the first group.

None of it means anything as it relates to future NHL success...

That all I'm saying....
 
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NotProkofievian

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
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If Kotkaniemi is contributing to the teams success...then that should obviously trump whatever perceived (which I think is vastly exaggerated) benefit he would have from going to play for Team Finland at the WJC's.

Seems obvious.

Should the Canucks send Elias Petersson to the WJC's???

I mean, he's dominating the NHL...he could SUPER dominate the WJC's

He's not eligible this year.
 
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