Prospect Info: Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part III

[Kriss E]

Most top players, other than the generational superstars, who start their careers at 18 have modest first years. It's not an issue. See how Joe Thornton did, for example. If they have strong character, they don't "lose confidence", they learn what works in the NHL and what doesn't. And they can't learn that in a league two steps down like Liiga in Finland. Nor the AHL, even though it is better than Finland.

Well Thornton is not Kotkaniemi, and vice versa, so it doesn't matter what Big Joe did. Nobody argued there was no precedent for an 18yo to be in the NHL, so not quite sure what your point is.

Kotkaniemi was 17 a few months ago, his ''character'' is forging and any human at that age has shaky confidence. So, are we going to play russian roulette to test the character of our best prospect during a rebuild year where we really don't have much need for him?? Why the hell would we do that?
He's just barely turned 18, he isn't going to change much of anything for us, it's okay, he can get an extra year in lower leagues.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Well Thornton is not Kotkaniemi, and vice versa, so it doesn't matter what Big Joe did. Nobody argued there was no precedent for an 18yo to be in the NHL, so not quite sure what your point is.

Kotkaniemi was 17 a few months ago, his ''character'' is forging and any human at that age has shaky confidence. So, are we going to play russian roulette to test the character of our best prospect during a rebuild year where we really don't have much need for him?? Why the hell would we do that?
He's just barely turned 18, he isn't going to change much of anything for us, it's okay, he can get an extra year in lower leagues.

Assat Pori is a tirefire this year, and it is going backwards development-wise to return to the larger ice surface. It seems like his Dad/coach is ok with him playing in Laval after all, so if and when he is no longer developing and learning the right way in the NHL, I would send him to Laval rather than Finland.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Thing is - what they learn when they're less physical, less quick, less confident is to play safe and clean and not take any risk. That's what works for them at this stage. The antithesis of positive playmaking hockey. You want confident players who feel they know when they can take on zone and man coverage. How else can you become a good player and good producer?

It Kotkaniemi goes to the AHL I think he'll face the same issues as in the NHL, but to a lesser extent. Finland is probably best for him if the coach in Montreal doesn't put his faith and allow Kotkaniemi to properly develop.

That's a good point, thanks for bringing it up. Just because they're learning something that works at the NHL level doesn't mean that they're learning the extent of what works at the NHL level. It could be that they're just learning to scratch and survive, not thrive. Maybe they'd be able to learn more things that work at the NHL level more easily when they're older, bigger, stronger, faster, and a year more experienced.

 

[NotProkofievian]

He'll develop even more if he goes back to Finland and gets reinstated as a Junior then. He will be able to totally dominate, and domination is all the fans want to see.

Junior B even better!

Excelling is an important step in the development of a prospect. He should play at the highest level which he can excel, not the level at which he can excel the highest. I think everyone who preferred he stay in Finland this year would agree with this statement, and it obviously cannot be charitably inferred from anything said by anyone that he should be returned to Junior.

 

[Kriss E]

Assat Pori is a tirefire this year, and it is going backwards development-wise to return to the larger ice surface. It seems like his Dad/coach is ok with him playing in Laval after all, so if and when he is no longer developing and learning the right way in the NHL, I would send him to Laval rather than Finland.

I prefer Laval as well, but if not there, then Finland again.

 

[417]

Well in some cases it might be difficult, but here we are talking about a kid that was 17 not too long ago, his physical shape is still quite adolescent, and he isn't particularly lighting things up.
So ya, pretty easy to tell he could use another year of development versus weaker players and opponents. It's really not that difficult to conclude in Kotka's case.

Just because he's not lighting it up, and again, he's a crossbar and disallowed goal away from being a PPG player, doesn't mean he's not developing at a rapid rate.

"Score vision" is never a good way to evaluate a player, especially not one making his debut at 18yrs old.

So yeah, I'd say it's a more complex conclusion than you're allowing it to be.

 

[417]

Excelling is an important step in the development of a prospect. He should play at the highest level which he can excel, not the level at which he can excel the highest. I think everyone who preferred he stay in Finland this year would agree with this statement, and it obviously cannot be charitably inferred from anything said by anyone that he should be returned to Junior.

So is overcoming adversity...

 

[NotProkofievian]

So is overcoming adversity...

Sure, but that doesn't have to happen the first time you encounter it.

Since Kotkaniemi earned his shot my position has been that if we want to keep him for the year, it should be as inarguable as it was to give him the shot in the first place.

He has 4 more games to silence any doubters.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sure, but that doesn't have to happen the first time you encounter it.

Since Kotkaniemi earned his shot my position has been that if we want to keep him for the year, it should be as inarguable as it was to give him the shot in the first place.

He has 4 more games to silence any doubters.

Personally, I think he has proven enough to play the 3C role and survive while he learns how to deal with less time and space and more speed. My approach is this though. He only makes the NHL as a 18 or 19 year old if he is exceptional status. If not, I rather give him the opportunity to dominate in Finland or the AHL. My approach is a patience.

Why send Kotkaniemi to Finland?
- Gets to play center in the league he did not play center last year. Gets to improve on his previous year
- Gets to play with his country in warm up games to get ready for the World Juniors
- Might not have to protect him in the next expansion draft. Just depends when Seattle comes into the league. I prefer to have this option than not to have it
- Maintain the possibility that he plays less than 40 games as a 19 year old and we don't burn his 1st RFA year while he is still learning on the job. RFA years from 20-26, instead of 18-24
- Habs let him grow gradually and he can work at adding strength and filling into his body
- Without Kotkaniemi as our 3C, it opens up a spot on our roster where we don't have to waive a player we prefer not to lose.

With me, he needs to be more dominate in puck possession if he makes my NHL team and we start the ELC/RFA years. Not a knock on how he has played, I just have a high ceiling for him and I rather him dominate a league before he plays NHL.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

He'll develop even more if he goes back to Finland and gets reinstated as a Junior then. He will be able to totally dominate, and domination is all the fans want to see.

Junior B even better!

There is an established method to pedagogy actually - if something is too easy, people don't learn anything, and if it's too hard they don't learn anything. There is a sweet spot between engagement and difficulty that instructors have identified - the question is which league will provide that for Kotkaniemi.

If he's brought along the wrong way, or in a compromised way ("defensively safe", as Clod will surely insist) that hurts his development all the same. Look at Galchenyuk and how he ended up versus what his natural talent had promised.

 

[BaseballCoach]

There is an established method to pedagogy actually - if something is too easy, people don't learn anything, and if it's too hard they don't learn anything. There is a sweet spot between engagement and difficulty that instructors have identified - the question is which league will provide that for Kotkaniemi.

If he's brought along the wrong way, or in a compromised way ("defensively safe", as Clod will surely insist) that hurts his development all the same. Look at Galchenyuk and how he ended up versus what his natural talent had promised.

LOL, every player in the NHL should strive to be defensively safe. You make it sound like it's a bad thing. In fact, J2K's defensive instincts are among his better qualities! Do you want him to learn to cheat instead?

 

[MC94]

So does this mean kotka is here all year?

 

[WeThreeKings]

So does this mean kotka is here all year?

No it means that they are obviously going to do their best to develop him so that he's capable of staying there.

 

[Peanut]

Assat Pori is a tirefire this year, and it is going backwards development-wise to return to the larger ice surface. It seems like his Dad/coach is ok with him playing in Laval after all, so if and when he is no longer developing and learning the right way in the NHL, I would send him to Laval rather than Finland.

Is Assat really that much of a tirefire when I watched them they didn't look that bad just struggling on the PP there goalies were pretty bad. Is there any articles? i'm down to read.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

LOL, every player in the NHL should strive to be defensively safe. You make it sound like it's a bad thing. In fact, J2K's defensive instincts are among his better qualities! Do you want him to learn to cheat instead?

It's not about defensive instincts, it's about playing too stiff to produce which is a serious risk with this club and this club's history and this coach and this coach's history and every other gosh darn forward prospect """developed""" by them.

 

[Kriss E]

Just because he's not lighting it up, and again, he's a crossbar and disallowed goal away from being a PPG player, doesn't mean he's not developing at a rapid rate.

"Score vision" is never a good way to evaluate a player, especially not one making his debut at 18yrs old.

So yeah, I'd say it's a more complex conclusion than you're allowing it to be.

''Not lighting it up'' was just a manner of speaking. He isn't playing particularly well, and given the entire context, ya, it's a pretty simple decision to send him down.
There really is nothing complex about this situation.
If he was an important piece on the team and we are looking to be a serious team, then okay.
If we were bad but he was obviously outplaying most of our players and clearly held his own making his demotion to the AHL pointless, then okay.
That's not what's going on here at all though.

Sending him down isn't going to hurt his development one bit. On the contrary, it should help.

 

[Habs Icing]

Assat Pori is a tirefire this year, and it is going backwards development-wise to return to the larger ice surface. It seems like his Dad/coach is ok with him playing in Laval after all, so if and when he is no longer developing and learning the right way in the NHL, I would send him to Laval rather than Finland.

Actually, I'd prefer he went to Laval. You got Bouchard down there, we can send him to the World juniors and we can recall him anytime when we see he has progressed.

 

[Skip Bayless]

The size of the ice surface is so overrated though, that doesn't take years of development. You could see he got used to the smaller rink with a few pre season games and that's not what he's having trouble with right now. Notice how often he is often caught flat footed? That's because he has no confidence in his skating yet. As soon as he feels he'll lose a foot race, he extends his body and stops moving his feet. His pivots are not there yet, which makes it easy for defenders to strip him off the puck...all things you expect from a guy who just turned 18 years old. Those are all things that will take a couple of years for him to take care of, but in the mean time, he needs to play minutes in an offensive role, not like a player with big limitations at this level.

 

[Deebs]

[tweet]

 

[76]

So does this mean kotka is here all year?

Of course he stays. No doubts with what I saw from him since camp. But expecting a normal learning curve here. He will have some tougher nights but it's part of the process and part of being a rookie in the nhl. Sending him in finland would take him a step behind of where he'll be after this first nhl season.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's not about defensive instincts, it's about playing too stiff to produce which is a serious risk with this club and this club's history and this coach and this coach's history and every other gosh darn forward prospect """developed""" by them.

So call for a change. Chu Rien can go for all I care. In the meantime, he appears to be learning at this level, and he rarely puts the team in trouble, so there is no reason to play him very little.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Struggling is developing people...

 

[417]

''Not lighting it up'' was just a manner of speaking. He isn't playing particularly well, and given the entire context, ya, it's a pretty simple decision to send him down.
There really is nothing complex about this situation.
If he was an important piece on the team and we are looking to be a serious team, then okay.
If we were bad but he was obviously outplaying most of our players and clearly held his own making his demotion to the AHL pointless, then okay.
That's not what's going on here at all though.

Sending him down isn't going to hurt his development one bit. On the contrary, it should help.

We have different evaluations of his play so far.


Not saying you're wrong but I have a different perspective.

 

[Habs]

CJ is the worse possible scenario for a rookie. He hates the kids, they suffer under him. Up by 5 goals against Detroit and he still sits the kid. I hate Claude.

 

[Deebs]

CJ is the worse possible scenario for a rookie. He hates the kids, they suffer under him. Up by 5 goals against Detroit and he still sits the kid. I hate Claude.

He was 7th in terms of TOI for forwards in that game. That's pretty good