Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 18

Status
Not open for further replies.

superstar436

Registered User
Mar 4, 2004
1,483
359
To the usual haters who’ll probably find something to complain about…

Game summary: TWO BS penalties on him and he fires a great pass up the middle for the OT winner. So GTFO!

Not BS penalties. When you are back checking and you are two players against one and lift the stick that high, it is an automatic penalty.

Rejoice all you want, he wasn't good all game (actually his last 4 games), and he takes too many penalties. I think it is his 3rd in this series vs vegas

Kid is not as talented as some of you Trevor timmins apologists try to sell us on, and he is not a smart player.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flying v 604

Miller Time

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
23,095
15,455
Not BS penalties. When you are back checking and you are two players against and lift the stick that high, it is an automatic penalty.

Rejoice all you want, he wasn't good all game (actually his last 4 fames), and takes too many penalties. I think it is his 3rd in this series.

Kid is not as talented as some of you Trevor timmins apologists and he is not a smart player.

yeah, tells more about what is and isn't a penalty after watching that game :facepalm:

not being able to recognize smart hockey plays says more about the observer, than it does about the players. nuff said.
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,494
36,882
pick sums up this line since the start of the playoffs rather nicely... 20 years old to boot... the future is bright!

It will take some time. He will eventually get there. Not as a 1st liner. Absolutely not. But could end a very good 2nd line C. But will take more time as it's a normal process in the case of a player that started too early.
 

sandviper

No Ragrets
Jan 26, 2016
13,445
24,450
Toronto
Not BS penalties. When you are back checking and you are two players against one and lift the stick that high, it is an automatic penalty.

Rejoice all you want, he wasn't good all game (actually his last 4 games), and he takes too many penalties. I think it is his 3rd in this series vs vegas

Kid is not as talented as some of you Trevor timmins apologists try to sell us on, and he is not a smart player.

*yawn*

We won, we’re up 2-1, KK is living the dream.
 

Miller Time

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
23,095
15,455
It will take some time. He will eventually get there. Not as a 1st liner. Absolutely not. But could end a very good 2nd line C. But will take more time as it's a normal process in the case of a player that started too early.

disagree. I've said before, i'll say it again... his ceiling is very much as a top line player. Will he get there? completely remains to be seen. but he has a vast set of skills and attributes that absolutely puts him on that kind of trajectory, should he make the most of his tools and maximize his development curve.

Many of the perceived flaws, in particular the "falling over" one, shows a very short-sighted/narrow lens of assessment... he's on his ass a lot because he's initiating physical play (either in puck retrieval or in puck protection) that his frame simply can't support right now vis-a-vis many of the large opponents he willingly engages with...

it's a good sign that he's playing that way, even though he doesn't yet have the strength to consistently come away from those situations on top... because if you watch closely, you can see how "right" the contact decision is, or would be, if he had the strength to absorb the contact... which he will eventually have. When that catches up... the impact will be incredible.

The vision, the skating, the puck skills... all the other pieces are there, and right now he'd probably have more immediate success if he changed his game a bit to avoid more contact and was more selective about it.

lots of very good players thrive doing just that. Look at Toffoli... very effective overall, and yet can go lot's of shifts and even entire games with minimal impact on the game because he's patiently picking his spots... he cant stick his nose in and force plays because he physically would get overmatched. Guys, like JKO, who have skills/vision and the size/physicality to impose their will, are high impact players.

Plus... He's clutch. Shows up regularly in playoffs and in late game situations.
Plus... He's resilient. Can struggle, take bad penalties, and keep competing at a high level.
Plus... He's a student of the game. Hungry to learn and get better.

I'm telling you, barring injury, he's got all the pieces in place for a "late" blooming elite player... and I say "late" here not at all ironically (since he's been in the NHL since 18 and is only 20 right now), unlike some elite talents like a Caufield, JKO most clearly doesn't have the defined and refined elite 1-2 elements that would allow him early high productivity...

you know who had that... drouin... 53 pts in his 3rd season... almost ppg in 15 playoff games in his 2nd NHL season...


athlete development curves don't all look the same. JKO's curve looks different than caufield's (or than Drouins did at the same age), but what's most important is the highest point, and how wide the window is on either side while being above the various impact thresholds (ie if the peak is Xcaliber 1st line player, how many years he can be at that first line player level).

to think he's at best going to be a "very good 2nd line C" (which is what most would describe Danault as when he was contributing 50+points) is, i think, a very low approximation. Danault, comparatively, wasn't a fraction of the player JKO is today at the same age. If Danault's productivity progression from 20yrs old to 25-26-27 was from .36ppg AHL to .65ppg NHL, why would anyone think that JKO (who was ppg in the AHL at 19) can't or won't see his productivity exceed what Danault was able to do?

especially when it's clear he has far greater offensive tools to work with?

the pidgeonholing with JKO is very odd...



high the
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
32,266
24,753
I thought he had a putrid game tonight, but that pass was money. If he continues making plays, it doesn't matter how awkward he looks.

Hopefully, the whole line takes off now.

I think that line will always generate it's offense from the way it's scored in the last two games: quick strike offense the other way. I don't see them getting going by making plays, having a cycle, etc.. but hopefully they can strike throughout the game.
 

Harry Kakalovich

Registered User
Sep 26, 2002
6,269
4,355
Montreal
disagree. I've said before, i'll say it again... his ceiling is very much as a top line player. Will he get there? completely remains to be seen. but he has a vast set of skills and attributes that absolutely puts him on that kind of trajectory, should he make the most of his tools and maximize his development curve.

Many of the perceived flaws, in particular the "falling over" one, shows a very short-sighted/narrow lens of assessment... he's on his ass a lot because he's initiating physical play (either in puck retrieval or in puck protection) that his frame simply can't support right now vis-a-vis many of the large opponents he willingly engages with...

it's a good sign that he's playing that way, even though he doesn't yet have the strength to consistently come away from those situations on top... because if you watch closely, you can see how "right" the contact decision is, or would be, if he had the strength to absorb the contact... which he will eventually have. When that catches up... the impact will be incredible.

The vision, the skating, the puck skills... all the other pieces are there, and right now he'd probably have more immediate success if he changed his game a bit to avoid more contact and was more selective about it.

lots of very good players thrive doing just that. Look at Toffoli... very effective overall, and yet can go lot's of shifts and even entire games with minimal impact on the game because he's patiently picking his spots... he cant stick his nose in and force plays because he physically would get overmatched. Guys, like JKO, who have skills/vision and the size/physicality to impose their will, are high impact players.

Plus... He's clutch. Shows up regularly in playoffs and in late game situations.
Plus... He's resilient. Can struggle, take bad penalties, and keep competing at a high level.
Plus... He's a student of the game. Hungry to learn and get better.

I'm telling you, barring injury, he's got all the pieces in place for a "late" blooming elite player... and I say "late" here not at all ironically (since he's been in the NHL since 18 and is only 20 right now), unlike some elite talents like a Caufield, JKO most clearly doesn't have the defined and refined elite 1-2 elements that would allow him early high productivity...

you know who had that... drouin... 53 pts in his 3rd season... almost ppg in 15 playoff games in his 2nd NHL season...


athlete development curves don't all look the same. JKO's curve looks different than caufield's (or than Drouins did at the same age), but what's most important is the highest point, and how wide the window is on either side while being above the various impact thresholds (ie if the peak is Xcaliber 1st line player, how many years he can be at that first line player level).

to think he's at best going to be a "very good 2nd line C" (which is what most would describe Danault as when he was contributing 50+points) is, i think, a very low approximation. Danault, comparatively, wasn't a fraction of the player JKO is today at the same age. If Danault's productivity progression from 20yrs old to 25-26-27 was from .36ppg AHL to .65ppg NHL, why would anyone think that JKO (who was ppg in the AHL at 19) can't or won't see his productivity exceed what Danault was able to do?

especially when it's clear he has far greater offensive tools to work with?

the pidgeonholing with JKO is very odd...



high the
Agreed. Tough to know what Kotkaniemi will become in time. He's still pretty raw - he will have more time at some point probably fairly soon (next couple of years) as he bulks up and skates a little faster. Right now he's still a work in progress.

Last night I found myself wishing he would pass to his teammates a little more - but in the long run maybe it's a good thing that he's not afraid to call his own number because passing all the time can also be a problem for young guys, especially centers.

Obviously he has to stop taking penalties, but that's not a development problem at this point that's just stuff he has to figure out in this series.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Miller Time

sandviper

No Ragrets
Jan 26, 2016
13,445
24,450
Toronto
disagree. I've said before, i'll say it again... his ceiling is very much as a top line player. Will he get there? completely remains to be seen. but he has a vast set of skills and attributes that absolutely puts him on that kind of trajectory, should he make the most of his tools and maximize his development curve.

Many of the perceived flaws, in particular the "falling over" one, shows a very short-sighted/narrow lens of assessment... he's on his ass a lot because he's initiating physical play (either in puck retrieval or in puck protection) that his frame simply can't support right now vis-a-vis many of the large opponents he willingly engages with...

it's a good sign that he's playing that way, even though he doesn't yet have the strength to consistently come away from those situations on top... because if you watch closely, you can see how "right" the contact decision is, or would be, if he had the strength to absorb the contact... which he will eventually have. When that catches up... the impact will be incredible.

The vision, the skating, the puck skills... all the other pieces are there, and right now he'd probably have more immediate success if he changed his game a bit to avoid more contact and was more selective about it.

lots of very good players thrive doing just that. Look at Toffoli... very effective overall, and yet can go lot's of shifts and even entire games with minimal impact on the game because he's patiently picking his spots... he cant stick his nose in and force plays because he physically would get overmatched. Guys, like JKO, who have skills/vision and the size/physicality to impose their will, are high impact players.

Plus... He's clutch. Shows up regularly in playoffs and in late game situations.
Plus... He's resilient. Can struggle, take bad penalties, and keep competing at a high level.
Plus... He's a student of the game. Hungry to learn and get better.

I'm telling you, barring injury, he's got all the pieces in place for a "late" blooming elite player... and I say "late" here not at all ironically (since he's been in the NHL since 18 and is only 20 right now), unlike some elite talents like a Caufield, JKO most clearly doesn't have the defined and refined elite 1-2 elements that would allow him early high productivity...

you know who had that... drouin... 53 pts in his 3rd season... almost ppg in 15 playoff games in his 2nd NHL season...


athlete development curves don't all look the same. JKO's curve looks different than caufield's (or than Drouins did at the same age), but what's most important is the highest point, and how wide the window is on either side while being above the various impact thresholds (ie if the peak is Xcaliber 1st line player, how many years he can be at that first line player level).

to think he's at best going to be a "very good 2nd line C" (which is what most would describe Danault as when he was contributing 50+points) is, i think, a very low approximation. Danault, comparatively, wasn't a fraction of the player JKO is today at the same age. If Danault's productivity progression from 20yrs old to 25-26-27 was from .36ppg AHL to .65ppg NHL, why would anyone think that JKO (who was ppg in the AHL at 19) can't or won't see his productivity exceed what Danault was able to do?

especially when it's clear he has far greater offensive tools to work with?

the pidgeonholing with JKO is very odd...



high the

Obviously, kid is flawed. I’ve always said he’s a project and I fully agree with your breakdown. I see #1C tools and potential but he would need to make significant development leaps.

Not the same as “he needs to get much better” to become a #1C. Like Evans is great but he doesn’t have that same potential.

KK may never get there, but it’ll be up to him and the work he still needs to put in to reach his ceiling.

Anyhow, fefans who complain about a player who helped to create a game winning goal are probably the types who complain about having to drive to the bank to deposit a cheque.
 

BLONG7

Registered User
Oct 30, 2002
35,753
22,141
Nova Scotia
Visit site
Most of the game falling down all over the place, barely had the puck and took two penalties.

But nice saucer pass to Anderson. :laugh:
LOL...............aren't you the same guy who lost all his credibility in the Price thread!! LOL
The kid has been pure MONEY in his playoff career!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you probably don't know this, but he is only 20 yrs old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL
 

BLONG7

Registered User
Oct 30, 2002
35,753
22,141
Nova Scotia
Visit site
Not BS penalties. When you are back checking and you are two players against one and lift the stick that high, it is an automatic penalty.

Rejoice all you want, he wasn't good all game (actually his last 4 games), and he takes too many penalties. I think it is his 3rd in this series vs vegas

Kid is not as talented as some of you Trevor timmins apologists try to sell us on, and he is not a smart player.
You forgot to use the little sarcasm emoji......lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: sandviper

sandviper

No Ragrets
Jan 26, 2016
13,445
24,450
Toronto
But OMG we could have had Quinn Hughes !!!

:sarcasm:

To be truthful, and it’s there in my post history during mocks and discussions of that draft year, I was super high on Hughes. Outside the consensus picks, rounding out my top-5, I had Boqvist, Hughes and Kotkaniemi.

Hughes is a great offensive driver. He has all the offensive PMD tools we need. Can’t play defence for shit, but given our defence first mentality, maybe we could had developed that.

Really, a lot of players from that draft class have struggled, except maybe the almighty Tkachuk :sarcasm:

Will KK ever live up to the #3 draft position? We’ll see but while many, including myself, would like to see more, he’s been actually contributing to wins during this run.
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
13,725
14,606
LOL...............aren't you the same guy who lost all his credibility in the Price thread!! LOL
The kid has been pure MONEY in his playoff career!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you probably don't know this, but he is only 20 yrs old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL
“3-years of data speaks for itself”...”Habs need to start Allen to have any chance”...
 
  • Like
Reactions: BLONG7 and azcanuck
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad