Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part 16

[Zorba]

Maybe but we drafted him as a long term center prospect so at age 20, are we at the long term point yet? I think not. Most of us said that others will be better faster than KK when we drafted him.

It's too early to act like experts but we can guess

No they didn’t. No one drafts 3rd overall thinking let’s give him 5 years. That gm could be gone in 5 years. They drafted need over best player available. Tkachuk or Hughes make the this team better now.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

must be nice living in that fantasy world!

And being spoon fed opportunities despite showing nothing isn’t a fantasy? lol

 

[Habs Halifax]

No they didn’t. No one drafts 3rd overall thinking let’s give him 5 years. That gm could be gone in 5 years. They drafted need over best player available. Tkachuk or Hughes make the this team better now.

Haha... many on our boards talked about the long term prospect narrative when we drafted him and many others would have flipped out if we took Tkachuk. There were some high on Hughes. I remember that.

 

[Miller Time]

How is it laughable? His skating has barely improved and he takes too long to make decisions with the puck on his stick. His shot is hard but he can’t release it before a defender gets a stick on the puck. I expect the strength to increase and not to fall over all the time, but the other two are not going to get much better if at all. To me it indicates a flawed 2nd line centre. If you’re happy with that, fine. To me it’s two disappointments by Timmins at 3rd overall. It’s inexcusable, combined with the constant 1st round failures from 2010-2017.

20 years old.

Yet you seem to think 2 areas of improvement that are extremely elastic are somehow set in stone for him... & ground your criticism and frustration in that poor assessment.

That's what's laughable

 

[Miller Time]

And being spoon fed opportunities despite showing nothing isn’t a fantasy? lol

Perhaps you'd like to meet our owner, Geoff Molson.

Or our GM, Marc Bergevin.

 

[Zorba]

Haha... many on our boards talked about the long term prospect narrative when we drafted him and many others would have flipped out if we took Tkachuk. There were some high on Hughes. I remember that.

If you have to wait 5 years for. 3rd OA , he’s a bust Tkachuk was the BPA. We chose need Its backfired. A top 4 wing core of Tkachuk,Gallagher, Caufield and Anderson /tofolli would be f***ing scary

 

[Habs Icing]

Brady Tkachuk would look good in a Habs jersey. Thanks Marc Bergevin.

You misspelled Trevor Timmins.

 

[Andrei79]

Thing is, no one on the roster ahead of him "has what it takes"... and rather than do what any smart team does as far as nurturing confidence and growth in prized young players (by controlling what you can control, like consistent ice time/linemates and showing some patience with to-be-expected up's and downs... as we did/have with Suzuki pretty much all year), JKO for some odd reason has been treated like a spare part.

After CJ was fired, JKO started getting both more ice time and better linemates.... he translated that into 7 pts in 10 games... then had a 3-game stretch without a point (still 7pts/13 games, better than Tkachuk productivity ), and what happens? Our genius GM trades for an "upgrade" in Staal and our even brighter coach proceedes to slide JKO to the wing for a few games.

Kid takes it in stride, saying all the right things...

Many of the usual suspects around here dismissed that yo-yoing as no big deal...

and he's put up 5 pts in the 17 games since, while bouncing from C to W, and a revolving door of wingers almost every game since.

Some of you clearly have no concept of athlete development or confidence development in young professionals... i guess with no experience in the subject matter it would be easy to assume that if line switching works with no impact or difference on players related to their age/experience in EA sports, the same should be true in real life.

It isn't. Confidence takes time to build in most athletes. As the broadcast team (ex-players) spoke to last night as far as Thornton's impact in Toronto, there is absolutely something to experience as it relates to dealing with the grind of a season, fighting through slumps, elevating play to deal with late season/playoffs et. Not ALL young players struggle with that, just like not ALL veterans automatically develop it through experience alone.

But with a young player? No different than with a young/inexperienced person in any field, you adjust your expectations and create more space for nurturing/patience/confidence growth early on if you feel the talent is worth investing in. Later on, then sure, short leash and "next man up"...

but for now? To look at how JKO has been used and treated this year and be disappointed, or equate production inconsistency as a sign of his limitations with no appreciation or consideration of the difficult context he's been put in? that's just silly.

Just take a look at Ottawa. Remember how much some were laughing at them early on? Yet here we are late in the season, winners of 6 of their last 8 games, several young players playing with confidence and impact... guys who at various times during the year (including the darling Tkachuk) who went on dry spells as long as any JKO has seen this year WITHOUT their minutes getting slashed or being thrown into unecessary line blenders.

That stuff matters, even if some of you prefer to ignore it.

If you just watch his overall game, it's very obvious that:
- he's got good/great vision and hockey sense
- he competes hard in all phases of the game
- he's got above average set of tools
- he's awkward in the ways that a lanky youth whose skill/head are further advanced than his body when it comes to competing professionally
- he's extremmely coachable

those traits together, for a 20 year old playing regular NHL minutes, deservedly so, point unequivocally to a player with a huge amount of progression ahead of him.

That our mediocre roster needs more "right now" impact players both on offense and defense, has nothing to do with him. Replace Danault with a top-tier NHL C, and this entire conversation does not exist.
Put JKO on Ottawa and give him Tkachuk's leash and support, and the most likely outcome would be that their P/60, which is almost equal now (1.63 vs 1.6), would be far more in JKO's favour... opportunity & consistency matter.

Tough to say anything more. Another excellent post Miller. I feel you contextualize the situation very well.

 

[Habs Icing]

Lol. You make it sound like 5 pts in 17 games is good Byron has 7 pts in his last 17 games and he’s considered fodder.
5 pts. Wow. Low low standards. That’s a 27 pts pace. Awful

And what's not pointed out is whether KK was a driver or a passenger with those 5 points.

 

[1909]

I am not overly impressed by KK... BUT, I always tell myself that he is still only 20-21, has still lots to learn, and was RUSHED to NHL level to fill gapping holes on the f***ing Habs centerline, left desert for two decades because of improper scouting and drafting, mainly.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Perhaps you'd like to meet our owner, Geoff Molson.

Or our GM, Marc Bergevin.

We’re talking KK.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well, I had a bunch of multiquotes and was in the middle of replying. Dog stepped on the keyboard and POOF away it goes.

So anyways, the main points:

- Totally agree that we are doing a crappy job developing him
- Thought he played great coming up until we cut his ice and screwed with his head
- Thought he played great after the coaching change before we tanked and picked up Staal
- Still think he's going to be a beast
- Tkachuk and Quinn may very well be better picks... doesn't really matter to me
- We need to do a better job on development overall - regardless of whether this guy was the right pick or not. Give him, Suzuki and CC every chance to succeed.

 

[Mrb1p]

And being spoon fed opportunities despite showing nothing isn’t a fantasy? lol

So we both agree that Tkachuck has shown nothing either, right ? Since both their p/60 is the same.. (And KKs been way ahead most of the year)

 

[Habs Icing]

Keep hearing about KKs supposedly great shot. 11 goals in 84 games. Where Is it

Ricocheting off the organist's head.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He’s been given opportunities to show what he can do and has done shit all with them.

He shows something consistently, he’ll get more opportunities. That’s how life works.

Have you actually watched the Canadiens over the years?

 

[Miller Time]

Well, I had a bunch of multiquotes and was in the middle of replying. Dog stepped on the keyboard and POOF away it goes.

So anyways, the main points:

- Totally agree that we are doing a crappy job developing him
- Thought he played great coming up until we cut his ice and screwed with his head
- Thought he played great after the coaching change before we tanked and picked up Staal
- Still think he's going to be a beast
- Tkachuk and Quinn may very well be better picks... doesn't really matter to me
- We need to do a better job on development overall - regardless of whether this guy was the right pick or not. Give him, Suzuki and CC every chance to succeed.

add Romanov

any shot this franchise has at being relevant in the playoffs in the next 3-5 years depends heavily on how quickly and how effectively those 4 can hit their stride and get close to their potential.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

add Romanov

any shot this franchise has at being relevant in the playoffs in the next 3-5 years depends heavily on how quickly and how effectively those 4 can hit their stride and get close to their potential.

The wingers are there to help. It's a good group. The D is poison.

 

[angusyoung]

And what's not pointed out is whether KK was a driver or a passenger with those 5 points.

 

[Miller Time]

We’re talking KK.

Oh, i see... your takes and thoughts about how the world is apply only to JKO... got it

 

[Habs]

The thing I'll remember most about that draft year isn't Bustniemi, but the girl behind him with the short skirt and the 'what the hell did they just do' lady

 

[Habs Icing]

Can see why Columbus wanted Suzuki in the PLD deal now.

I didn't hear that. Can you fill me in?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

So we both agree that Tkachuck has shown nothing either, right ? Since both their p/60 is the same.. (And KKs been way ahead most of the year)

Tkachuk is clearly the Sens best forward. KK not so much here. Be real.

 

[Zorba]

Ricocheting off the organist's head.

Poor ms Diane Bibeau

 

[angusyoung]

I didn't hear that. Can you fill me in?

Thought that that was the proposition that fell thru, speculative of course.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Have you actually watched the Canadiens over the years?

If he starts showing something consistently, and they continue to hold him back, then you’d have an argument.

But as of now, it’s on him to show more consistently.