Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Part 11)

[M.C.G. 31]

At this point I'm all for sending him to Laval. Get him the **** out of Julien's hands and play him as the first line center for the Rocket until we have a proper developmental coach in MTL.

The thing that pisses me off is we have two coaches already in our organization that would do SO much better with Kotkaniemi and his development: Ducharme (NHL) and Bouchard (AHL).

this organization needs to move the f*** on from dinosaurs and recycling coaches.

 

[salbutera]

Would be interested to know if minority owners got non-voting shares, although it may not matter depending on the breakdown. I suspect Molson brothes have RFR over the others, and possibly even option windows at FMV.

I believe you are correct, when Molson took over they mentioned so

 

[Andrei79]

Keeping these kids on the sidelines and not sending them down is just idiocy at this point. I've accepted that MB isnt one to learn from his mistakes however so I'm fully prepared for a lot of these kids to be mishandled and disapoint.

 

[NotProkofievian]

“Valuation” per Forbes does not equate to what someone will actually cough up. NYR have close to zero debt, MLSE @ 7%, Habs have significantly more @ 15% tied with Caps for 16th in the league.

If the Rangers or Leafs go on the market demand will blow away the Forbes valuation, not sure there are buyers out there willing to cough up $1.3B for the Mlt marketplace

Montreal Canadiens on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List

I think the Montreal Canadiens would sell for at least 1B. A franchise costs a minimum of 650 million at the moment. One of the most profitable franchises in the league? Obviously more than one for which you have to do everything from scratch. It's also in a decently sized Metro area.

 

[DangerDave]

IMO an ownership consortium that has a fairly high debt/equity ratio will not just say “live with the mistakes we’ll be ok when the window opens up...next season will be better”

And how does playing Thompson bring in revenue? Because I know for damn sure he's not the guy that fans go to see and he's not a guy that will be the difference maker between making and missing the playoffs.

 

[salbutera]

And how does playing Thompson bring in revenue? Because I know for damn sure he's not the guy that fans go to see and he's not a guy that will be the difference maker between making and missing the playoffs.

IMO it’s a question of probability - Thompson is a known commodity, security blanket of you will, the variance of a young players performance game to game tends to be higher.

I can only speculate ownership doesn’t care if Habs fans come to see Thompson or not, they will not mandate a reconstruction. As McGuire said during his interview for the Habs GM gig, it was made clear rebuilding wasn’t an acceptable option for interviewers Molson & Andlauer, it was all about what’s the plan to make the playoffs.

As Friedman references often in his 31-thoughts articles: “NHL owners will tell you how critical it is to make the playoffs every year. In what is still a gate-driven league, the difference between getting in and missing out has massive financial implications.”

 

[salbutera]

I think the Montreal Canadiens would sell for at least 1B. A franchise costs a minimum of 650 million at the moment. One of the most profitable franchises in the league? Obviously more than one for which you have to do everything from scratch. It's also in a decently sized Metro area.

To be honest I’ve got no feel for it. All I know is, the team was sold at a low premium to an American in 2001 when no one locally even bothered stepping up, in 2009 again there were only a handful of interested buyers and other than Balsille (at the time), no one with seriously deep pockets.

 

[NotProkofievian]

IMO an ownership consortium that has a fairly high debt/equity ratio will not just say “live with the mistakes we’ll be ok when the window opens up...next season will be better”

This, however, is probably true. I think it has a bit more to do with the fact that Molson is a relatively small fish, and the Canadiens are perhaps the largest part of his portfolio. But that's part of why he has so much debt still.

 

[HelloBellyvo]

re KK..talent by definition is a natural aptitude, an inner quality that emerges effortlessly.
Skill is an acquired ability learned w/effort.
the dilemma , on this board, appears to be if KK is in the right environment to develop his skill.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

re KK..talent by definition is a natural aptitude, an inner quality that emerges effortlessly.
Skill is an acquired ability learned w/effort.
the dilemma , on this board, appears to be if KK is in the right environment to develop his skill.

He's not , it's Galchenyuk all over again

 

[cphabs]

re KK..talent by definition is a natural aptitude, an inner quality that emerges effortlessly.
Skill is an acquired ability learned w/effort.
the dilemma , on this board, appears to be if KK is in the right environment to develop his skill.

Trade him to Tampa!

 

[JoelWarlord]

To be honest I’ve got no feel for it. All I know is, the team was sold at a low premium to an American in 2001 when no one locally even bothered stepping up, in 2009 again there were only a handful of interested buyers and other than Balsille (at the time), no one with seriously deep pockets.

When Vegas expansion fee for just the right to have an NHL team alone goes for 500M (with no building, no brand value, no established contracts, etc) I think the Canadiens would go for well north of 1B considering it's one of the three most valuable brands in the sport and the team owns the arena as well (which is the only "real" arena in a 4M metro area).

There's three teams in the NHL that actually make real money (as in make their owners more money than putting the franchise money into whatever they're already rich from) and it's the Canadiens, Rangers, and Leafs. Each team brings in like 100M in operating income annually and the next closest is Chicago around 50M. Financially those three teams are just on another level from the rest of the league.

 

[cphabs]

IMO it’s a question of probability - Thompson is a known commodity, security blanket of you will, the variance of a young players performance game to game tends to be higher.

I can only speculate ownership doesn’t care if Habs fans come to see Thompson or not, they will not mandate a reconstruction. As McGuire said during his interview for the Habs GM gig, it was made clear rebuilding wasn’t an acceptable option for interviewers Molson & Andlauer, it was all about what’s the plan to make the playoffs.

As Friedman references often in his 31-thoughts articles: “NHL owners will tell you how critical it is to make the playoffs every year. In what is still a gate-driven league, the difference between getting in and missing out has massive financial implications.”

Not with us! Our franchise’s history keeps the seats filled and the owners know it. We could miss the playoffs for the next 10 years and the same damn issues would be argued again.

 

[Genghis Keon]

IMO an ownership consortium that has a fairly high debt/equity ratio will not just say “live with the mistakes we’ll be ok when the window opens up...next season will be better”

If we're going to look at things through a business lens, how do Fortune 500 companies groom Harvard Business grads who graduated top of their class who are hired to be fast-tracked into executive positions? Do they get less responsibility their second year of work while still in entry level positions?

 

[salbutera]

If we're going to look at things through a business lens, how do Fortune 500 companies groom Harvard Business grads who graduated top of their class who are hired to be fast-tracked into executive positions? Do they get less responsibility their second year of work while still in entry level positions?

Harvard business grads are not 18,19,20. I was the youngest in my Harvard MBA class...I was 27 at the time.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Keeping these kids on the sidelines and not sending them down is just idiocy at this point. I've accepted that MB isnt one to learn from his mistakes however so I'm fully prepared for a lot of these kids to be mishandled and disapoint.

My optimism and disappointment from 2012 would like to:

 

[Doc McKenna]

Harvard business grads are not 18,19,20. I was the youngest in my Harvard MBA class...I was 27 at the time.

You Harvard types seem to be bad at degrees.

The Full-Time MBA

Typically, today's Master's of Business Administration programs require students to complete 36 credits in fields like strategic management, communication, managerial accounting, and other key areas. Unlike graduate-level business programs, full-time students are not expected to take 15 credits each semester. Instead, the typical full-time MBA student takes nine credits, or three courses, per semester. Most full-time programs feature two semesters per academic year, which means students can expect to complete their degree two full years after they began the program.

 

[salbutera]

When Vegas expansion fee for just the right to have an NHL team alone goes for 500M (with no building, no brand value, no established contracts, etc) I think the Canadiens would go for well north of 1B considering it's one of the three most valuable brands in the sport and the team owns the arena as well (which is the only "real" arena in a 4M metro area).

There's three teams in the NHL that actually make real money (as in make their owners more money than putting the franchise money into whatever they're already rich from) and it's the Canadiens, Rangers, and Leafs. Each team brings in like 100M in operating income annually and the next closest is Chicago around 50M. Financially those three teams are just on another level from the rest of the league.

I agree re:profitability. I’m just not sold it will happen based on history. Bidders were coming out of the woodworks to purchase Ontario Teachers Pension stake in MLSE before Rogers & Bell teamed up. Yet the same bidding war never manifested in 2009-2010 when Gillet put the Habs up for sale - after Balsille was blackballed, there were two consortiums (Molson’s and a former Mtl’er living in Florida) & Peledeau iirc.

 

[salbutera]

You Harvard types seem to be bad at degrees.

The Full-Time MBA

Typically, today's Master's of Business Administration programs require students to complete 36 credits in fields like strategic management, communication, managerial accounting, and other key areas. Unlike graduate-level business programs, full-time students are not expected to take 15 credits each semester. Instead, the typical full-time MBA student takes nine credits, or three courses, per semester. Most full-time programs feature two semesters per academic year, which means students can expect to complete their degree two full years after they began the program.

??? Not sure what your getting at.

 

[BB88]

KK is 19. Its unlikely he will be more productive then he is if used differently. He's not being "ruined". The kid is fine. It's called development. He's good enough to be in the NHL , he's just not a star YET.

In what World is destroying kids confidence best for development?

Confidence feeds development, success feeds confidence.
Playing scared, or trying to create something offensively with .... achieves nothing positive.

 

[Miller Time]

In what World is destroying kids confidence best for development?

Confidence feeds development, success feeds confidence.
Playing scared, or trying to create something offensively with .... achieves nothing positive.

As much as I hate the Pats (bills fan), Belichick is a prime example of an excellence focused leader who knows that practice is where you assess what you have, and game time means you put the best guys out there in a position to succeed... Period. Their age/experience doesn't matter on game day.
If a rookie earns the starting spot, then you trust him to go out and perform with the same leash every other guy has... Meritocracy. And if you build that kind of culture, vets buy in (or you ship them out).

 

[Genghis Keon]

Harvard business grads are not 18,19,20. I was the youngest in my Harvard MBA class...I was 27 at the time.

Sure, but in the business world, you're mid career at 45. In the NHL, you've been retired for 10 years at 45. A hotshot prospect in the NHL might be 19, whereas a hotshot prospect in the business world might be 28--they're still both hot shot prospects.

Congrats on the Harvard MBA. That's super impressive.

 

[salbutera]

Sure, but in the business world, you're mid career at 45. In the NHL, you've been retired for 10 years at 45. A hotshot prospect in the NHL might be 19, whereas a hotshot prospect in the business world might be 28--they're still both hot shot prospects.

Congrats on the Harvard MBA. That's super impressive.

True dat - very valid points

BTW - thank you

 

[CHwest]

In what World is destroying kids confidence best for development?

Confidence feeds development, success feeds confidence.
Playing scared, or trying to create something offensively with .... achieves nothing positive.

Honestly I think his play has deteriorated since the middle of last season. That's not development. I wish just once we would keep youngsters in their appropriate league. I would love to see them come in with some swagger. The coach we have does not do a good job of developing, the team is to interested in making the playoffs so they play five or six and out.

 

[Kriss E]

Keeping these kids on the sidelines and not sending them down is just idiocy at this point. I've accepted that MB isnt one to learn from his mistakes however so I'm fully prepared for a lot of these kids to be mishandled and disapoint.

It just seems like history repeating...repeating...repeating itself.

Why is Julien so desperate to win he'll use Weal because he's less risky when the GM seems to not give two craps about making the POs?
I'd love to hear the discussions between Bergevin and Julien because there is a clear disconnect.