Proposal: Jeff Petry to the Leafs

[Randy Randerson]

So, the Leafs got out of their rebuild after drafting two winger and a center while having 0 depth, 0 other prospects and the Habs should just tank for another 3-5 while having some pieces there already but needing a little bit of tweaking and development?

The Habs are missing the most important pieces, and the important ones they have are likely to expire before the team is good again, so if it were me I'd try to be bad for a couple of years and get future packages for the pieces that you can that are approaching 30 or above.

The leafs farm system was highly thought of by the time that we drafted Matthews, with those who rank farm systems usually citing how good the depth was by the 2015/16 season. The leafs have also been fortunate that a bunch if those prospects have turned out near the peak of their potential, especially the important ones. But they started with a farm that was much better than the Habs current one, which is why I think you should continue to stock that farm.

Then again, I'm the opposite of a Habs fan, so if you want to throw everything at sneaking into the playoffs in the next few years I'd love to have that match up in the first round

 

[Liferleafer]

That’s true, but we do have Drouin, Domi, Gallagher, Mete, Juulsen, Lehkonen, Poehling, Kotkaniemi, Scherbak all under 25.

Poehling is going to join us at the end of the NCAA season and if he keeps his development curve, he will be a force. After watching Kotkaniemi’s pre-season games, his progression from the development camp is already huge and while I don’t think he will crack the team this year, you’ll see how good he is at the camp and pre-season games. Add another top level prospect in 2019 and as I said, we’ll be just fine talent wise against other top teams in the east

Very true, but in 2014, both Rielly and Kadri had proven stuff in the NHL. The bolded have proven little to nothing at that level. It's the same reason i don't count Liljegren/Sandin as NHL shoe ins....we hope, but who knows? I mean sure...you've got Gallagher (the Leafs had 25 year old JVR in 2014).

Again, i'm not slagging anyone on the Habs, but it may not be smart to rush Kotkaniemi, trust me....you don't want to spend the next 3-5 seasons finishing 9th, do it right....as a Leafs fan, i speak from experience.

 

[sansabri]

ITT:

Leafs fans: we think our young dmen will turn out well and be ready real soon.
Also Leafs fans: bwahahaha at Habs prospects turning out well.

 

[Baksfamous112]

The Habs are missing the most important pieces, and the important ones they have are likely to expire before the team is good again, so if it were me I'd try to be bad for a couple of years and get future packages for the pieces that you can that are approaching 30 or above.

The leafs farm system was highly thought of by the time that we drafted Matthews, with those who rank farm systems usually citing how good the depth was by the 2015/16 season. The leafs have also been fortunate that a bunch if those prospects have turned out near the peak of their potential, especially the important ones. But they started with a farm that was much better than the Habs current one, which is why I think you should continue to stock that farm.

Then again, I'm the opposite of a Habs fan, so if you want to throw everything at sneaking into the playoffs in the next few years I'd love to have that match up in the first round

Aside from Weber, Price and Pacioretty, Montreal’s core all under 25 years old.

Last year, our oldest players were Plekanec (35), Weber (32) and Price (30). The rest of the team was all under 30 years old, so I don’t see what your point is. We got talent, we got youth. We missed two top C’s and a top LHD to be competitive and we already have the two C’s in our famr system. We’re just missing a top LHD, which we most likely will get in the next draft.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Very true, but in 2014, both Rielly and Kadri had proven stuff in the NHL. The bolded have proven little to nothing at that level. It's the same reason i don't count Liljegren/Sandin as NHL shoe ins....we hope, but who knows? I mean sure...you've got Gallagher (the Leafs had 25 year old JVR in 2014).

Again, i'm not slagging anyone on the Habs, but it may not be smart to rush Kotkaniemi, trust me....you don't want to spend the next 3-5 seasons finishing 9th, do it right....as a Leafs fan, i speak from experience.

To be fair, Mete, Juulsen, Lehkonen and Scherbak all have NHL experiences and showed they can play and contribute.

Habs plan is to get Poehling’s in after his NCAA season and see where Kotkaniemi is during pre-season games. 2018-2019 will certainly be a long season but that should bring us our much needed young, puck-moving LHD.

I expect the Habs to compete for a playoff spot in 2019-2020 with Kotkaniemi, Poehling and maybe our 2019’s first round pick getting more experience (just like the Leafs did the year after drafting Matthews). Good, but not great.

2020-2021 is where things start to get real interesting for Habs fans

 

[4thline]

ITT:
...

Fixed
Leafs fans: we think that from our pool of 2 high end prospects, 2 defenders that have demonstrated ability at a top 4 NHL level but not proven it consistently, and 3-5 other d projects and young tweeners with upside that 2 of them should emerge as top 4 options
Habs fans- we that these specific 18 year olds can be pencilled into the hardest positions in hockey because they will not only peak but exceed expectations and be able to matchup with their all-star contemporaries within the division. And our old players will not get older.

 

[sansabri]

Fixed
Leafs fans: we think that from our pool of 2 high end prospects, 2 defenders that have demonstrated ability at a top 4 NHL level but not proven it consistently, and 3-5 other d projects and young tweeners with upside that 2 of them should emerge as top 4 options
Habs fans- we that these specific 18 year olds can be pencilled into the hardest positions in hockey because they will not only peak but exceed expectations and be able to matchup with their all-star contemporaries within the division. And our old players will not get older.

lol @ top 4 roles not being hard positions. Some of you literally expect your young dmen to just become good in 2 years.

 

[Notsince67]

The Leafs got out of their rebuild by drafting 1 Franchise Centre and 2 Kotkaniemi level centre prospects that have turned into 1st line wings with potential to emerge as elite, while having a young top pair dman and 1B/2C already locked up on long term team friendly contracts. Outside of the core "zero depth and other prospects" lol, by the end of the year that "zero depth" will have turned out 4 top nine wingers, a top 4-5 dman, and had two other prime age top 4 dmen that were under contract.

Lets not forget the Marlies were Calder cup champs while Laval....

 

[sansabri]

Lets not forget the Marlies were Calder cup champs while Laval....

Because Price never won that trophy...

AHL wins mean very little. We already went through this.

 

[4thline]

lol @ top 4 roles not being hard positions. Some of you literally expect your young dmen to just become good in 2 years.

Hoping for 2 of Zaitsev/Dermott/Liljegren/Borgman/Rosen/Sandin/Carrick/Ozighanov to be competent at a top 4 level behind an all-star F corp within the next 3 years is a whole lot more reasonable than expecting for both Kotkaniemi and Poehling to turn out well enough to go head to head with Tavares/Matthews, Stamkos/Point, Crosby/Malkin, Backstrom/Kuznetsov, Bergeron/Krejci. within the same time period. Especially when all those teams have comparable or better top end wings.

We're betting on like 1 in 4 become decent support pieces. You're betting on 2 out of 2 becoming the core of the team. Tell me you see the difference there

 

[Baksfamous112]

Fixed
Leafs fans: we think that from our pool of 2 high end prospects, 2 defenders that have demonstrated ability at a top 4 NHL level but not proven it consistently, and 3-5 other d projects and young tweeners with upside that 2 of them should emerge as top 4 options
Habs fans- we that these specific 18 year olds can be pencilled into the hardest positions in hockey because they will not only peak but exceed expectations and be able to matchup with their all-star contemporaries within the division. And our old players will not get older.

One was just selected 3rd overall while being one of the youngest player available in the draft. The other just had a tremendous season in the NCAA (almost a PPG) at 18 years old.

But sure, let’s compare that to a late 2018 first round pick and 22 1-25 years old who, right now, can barely can keep up the pace at the NHL level (dermott aside).

 

[firstemperor]

ITT:

Leafs fans: we think our young dmen will turn out well and be ready real soon.

Which leaf fan?

@Liferleafer and you can count me as well, aren't counting all our eggs in 1 basket as it pertains to Sandin/Liljegren so not sure which Leaf fans you are generalizing about. The best you can hope for is to be optimistic about both making the NHL, let alone being top 4 options.

The hit-rate of Kotk and Poehling to pencil in as #1/#2C's is another level of optimism.

For the Leafs, the defense is no where near as bad as heralded either. They were closer to top 10 than even league average, by various metrics. The fact that the worst defensive trio (Komarov- because he can't drive offense, Bozak, JVR) are leaving and being replaced internally by Tavares, Kapanen, Johnsson is in itself, a massive upgrade.

All that said, our defensive depth on the right side is in serious contention for worst in the league so we do need an insertion of one more, legitimate top 4 guy there if you were making a paper lineup. Hence why I am open to Petry under certain circumstances.

 

[Notsince67]

Because Price never won that trophy...

AHL wins mean very little. We already went through this.

Considering the graduates from the marlies to the leafs, it is relevant.

 

[Danny1237]

One was just selected 3rd overall while being one of the youngest player available in the draft. The other just had a tremendous season in the NCAA (almost a PPG) at 18 years old.

But sure, let’s compare that to a late 2018 first round pick and 22 1-25 years old who, right now, can barely can keep up the pace at the NHL level (dermott aside).

How did the last 3rd overall picked center work out for the Habs?

Sorry, I had too. Just trolling for fun, I would agree that the Habs prospect pool is far better than a lot of haters are giving them credit for. I would agree with what many are saying that by the time some of their pieces turn out, guys like Weber and Price won't be near the impact players they are today. I would argue Weber already was in decline before Montreal acquired him, and will likely never be the same again after having to take a year off to return at 33.

Timmins is the Habs best asset, he has had some exceptional drafts, and the last two drafts the Habs have had have been very good as ranked by most good scouting analysts. The Athletic is doing a team by team reveal of their top ranked prospect systems, and the Habs are still not up yet with only 7 teams left to reveal.

The Habs also have some good young pieces on their team, but they are missing the very high end talent required, and I think their D is much further away than one piece as they really need to build most of a brand new top 4, as I can't see Weber or Petry being an end guy in a few years.

The good news is they have prospect depth in the hardest position to acquire by other means, they have some good NHL wingers who are young, and while it would be nice to have an elite winger or two, you can get by without that a lot easier than not having good centers. They have thier picks again in this years draft, and hopefully Bergevin doesn't shit the bed and makes solid deals for players he is moving out. If they can add a high end offensive sniper in this draft, or maybe if they get the Best D available, it will help their outlook a lot. It's nice to add the position you need, but it should be whoever the best player available is, especially considering there is historically a better chance of landing a top end D later in the draft than there is a top end Center or Winger, so I wouldn't go out of my way to choose a D just because that's what you need, I think you need to take the best player available when picking in the top 8 or so.

 

[Danny1237]

Because Price never won that trophy...

AHL wins mean very little. We already went through this.

A single win doesn't mean much, but a strong AHL program does help teams stay competitive over the long term. Tampa and Washington's programs have paid big dividends for their organizations, allowing them to fill in important top 9 roles on cheap deals. Every year each of those teams seems to uncover another hidden gem.

Dubas spent the last 4 years with the Marlies trying to create a similar type of pipeline, and they did just win the regular season and playoff titles, which is a very dominating year, and did it with a majority of their players being prospects, not career AHLers.

They aren't likely to turn out tons of superstars, but when your core is set, and you are tight against the cap, having solid wingers and D come in already knowing the system and be able to seamlessly step into the lineup to play significant supporting roles allows you to better handle injuries and let expensive aging veterans go so you can pursue 27 year old franchise centreman in free agency.

 

[sansabri]

A single win doesn't mean much, but a strong AHL program does help teams stay competitive over the long term. Tampa and Washington's programs have paid big dividends for their organizations, allowing them to fill in important top 9 roles on cheap deals. Every year each of those teams seems to uncover another hidden gem.

Dubas spent the last 4 years with the Marlies trying to create a similar type of pipeline, and they did just win the regular season and playoff titles, which is a very dominating year, and did it with a majority of their players being prospects, not career AHLers.

They aren't likely to turn out tons of superstars, but when your core is set, and you are tight against the cap, having solid wingers and D come in already knowing the system and be able to seamlessly step into the lineup to play significant supporting roles allows you to better handle injuries and let expensive aging veterans go so you can pursue 27 year old franchise centreman in free agency.

So not only do you get a (28 yo) franchise C, but you expect in a few years to have supporting talent in the back end...

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It seems that Montreal has acknowledged that they must rebuild. Its ostensibly just the first step, but its an important one. We needed to do that ourselves before we could really turn that corner.

My thinking is let Montreal develop and we'll see where they are in a couple of years. If they are successful, it will be good to have a new version of that original 6 rivalry. Its all good, and our best bet is to hold off on comments and just wish them the best ...... imho.

 

[loyaltotheend]

Aside from Weber, Price and Pacioretty, Montreal’s core all under 25 years old.

Last year, our oldest players were Plekanec (35), Weber (32) and Price (30). The rest of the team was all under 30 years old, so I don’t see what your point is. We got talent, we got youth. We missed two top C’s and a top LHD to be competitive and we already have the two C’s in our famr system. We’re just missing a top LHD, which we most likely will get in the next draft.

You don't want to see what the point is, I assume. You're seem to be banking on the most optimistic outcome for all your prospects, while ignoring the inevitable that Weber & Price will have aged another 1-2 years (in a best case) while those prospects gain experience. Not to mention Weber in particular plays a position that doesn't age as well as Price, while coming back from serious injury and two separate surgeries! Those aren't fabrications, those are going to be factors even if you choose to ignore it

 

[loyaltotheend]

So not only do you get a (28 yo) franchise C, but you expect in a few years to have supporting talent in the back end...

What could possibly go wrong?

Are you both supporting the premise that the habs farm system already has #1/2 Cs in it, while saying the Leafs farm system has no chance at providing supporting-role dmen... AND trying to crap on adding Tavares?

 

[Burke the Legend]

Habs fans have built up this myth that we're busted at LD, it's propagated by fans unhappy with the loss of Markov (Loved him, but old age caught up - get over it) and Sergachev (he has talent, but no guarantee he puts it all together, the trade for Drouin was fine) but it's really not that bad. People have already mentioned Mete & Juulsen as 18 year olds who have shown some NHL potential which is a pretty positive development. I would also say not to forget Mike Reilly who has tonnes of talent but was an odd man out on a very deep Wild D-unit. I think he could be a very nice surprise if he is able to bring his game together as he gets more icetime and gains experience, huge upside.

 

[sansabri]

Are you both supporting the premise that the habs farm system already has #1/2 Cs in it, while saying the Leafs farm system has no chance at providing supporting-role dmen... AND trying to crap on adding Tavares?

No. You didn't read my post(s) properly.

 

[Danny1237]

So not only do you get a (28 yo) franchise C, but you expect in a few years to have supporting talent in the back end...

What could possibly go wrong?

Awesome sarcasm!! Doesnt accomplish anything or have anything to do with the post quoted buy great job anyway.

The point wasn't that the AHL team being good automatically provides you with everything you need, my response was to a post about whether or not having a good AHL team matters and pointed out a couple of teams that have used it effectively along with a way, as well as a way in which the Maple Leafs were able to utilize it in the short run.

It doesn't guarantee championships, but it is certainly useful to have a good AHL program.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Are you both supporting the premise that the habs farm system already has #1/2 Cs in it, while saying the Leafs farm system has no chance at providing supporting-role dmen... AND trying to crap on adding Tavares?

The problem is the Leafs doesn’t need supporting role d-man, they need top pairing d-man. After next season, they will have Rielly and Dermott as their top D’s. You’re missing a #2 and #3 here in your contention yeara and that’s if Dermott and Lil both develop as expected.

Of course we’re banking on them being our 1C and 2C for the future. That’s what they were drafting for and Poehling’s progression shows that he is most the man to run our 2nd line in the future while Kotkaniemi’s progression over the last year is quite frankly amazing and he just turned 18. We’ll know more what we have in him during the rookie tournament and training camp but the way I see him playing right now, he’s going to be real good at camp.

I’m not worried at all about price. He can be a top goalie for another 5-7 years. We’ll see how Weber is when he comes back. Hopefully he will be back somewhat close to what his game level was before but they way they went with the surgery screams long terms, though

 

[loyaltotheend]

No. You didn't read my post(s) properly.

Yeah I wasn't sure. It's possible some of your posts here are replying to things I can't see.

So you don't think you have 1/2C covered. Because it seems like you are not in favour of adding a 27 year old franchise-level centre, (those couple of weeks don't matter that much, but since you "corrected" the other guy) and that we don't have a couple bottom-6D in the system? (Supporting role was the term)

that accurate?

 

[Ricky Bobby]

The Habs are in for pain, but their prospect pool is actually considered amoung the higher end of the league. The biggest questions are around how Bergevin manages this team going forward. Bergevin should not be left in charge of this rebuild, but those are the cards the franchise seems to be dealt.

The sense of optimism around the team could be restored quite a bit if they were to shake up management, and with their decent draft record, and good prospect pool, they could put themselves in a less painful situation in relatively short order with the right decisions. They may not be in cup contention really soon, but watching a team of young players who will continue to get better, even competing for a playoff spot is far less painful than watching a manager fooling himself into thinking they are a trade away from contention.

I agree it's fun to watch the development of a young team. But it also takes time for that youth to emerge. It's gonna get a lot worse before it gets better but that's part of the process.

Habs have a few pieces to potentially build around but so does every single team and they have a lot of catching up to do and they are gonna get worse before they get better.

Having Poehling, Kotkaneimi but it's very doubtful either becomes an all-star level player. Where the Habs are truly lacking though is in the current young NHLers who already are or will be impact NHLers and that's gonna take a while for them to close that gap.

Go back to the Leafs before the 13-14 season and they had Kadri + Rielly as foundational youth and Kessel, Gardiner, JVR were only in their mid 20's. Then it was still 3 years of completely bottoming out to get Nylander, Marner and Matthews. They were very fortunate to end up with those 3. If they don't get Matthews (or Laine) then they likely are still rebuilding. Or if they ended up with Strome instead of Marner. Or if they took Nick Ritchie over Nylander (crazy to think but a lot of people wanted that at the time).