Player Discussion Jay Woodcroft

[North Cole]

Good post. Nice to get other well formulated views like this. What sticks with me though is that theres some problems with even the above theory. If the object is playing it safe and not upsetting apple cart then its odd, real odd, that veteran Brassard, who the GM just went out and got wasn't used. Played a few games and was parked. Played one playoff game and was parked. Its odd as well that the other TDL, Kulak, had his minutes reduced in multiple playoff games despite him being one of our more reliable defenders. It was also odd that Russel wasn't inserted more as Bouchard was not yet ready and was struggling throughout the playoffs in own end or in ill advised pinches.

Not everything adds up to playing it safe. The Malone call up is also bizarre. This being done before multiple players that Holland acquired didn't even see the ice in playoffs. That wasn't playing it safe. That was Woody rewarding the guy that he knew. Instead of the players that Holland obtained.

Yeah Malone was a bit depressing but he clearly trusts the guy more than Holloway et al because he knew him and because he's been around for a while, and I'm glad he at least didn't opt for Turris. Seems his order of depth forwards was Archie/Ryan - Malone - Holloway - Brassard.

I think for Kulak it's just easier to cut his minutes than the big five when you bring in the 7th D. Kosk, Kulak, Brassard and Russell all have one thing in common - expiring this year as UFA. I think Kulak comes back and the rest are gone, so from a long term team chemistry POV, that still plays it pretty safe IMO.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Avs would have skated circles around Nemo. I love the player, andI wish we got to see him crush some Flames, but there's no reason for him to be playing against the Avs in the playoffs.

Holloway was very likely nervous. Can you imagine your 1st NHL game being a WCF elimination game, with the crowd going crazy the whole time? Though that's why personally I would have had simply sooner.

Overall, I'm not complaining about Woody. The guy not only resurrected our regular season but brought us closer to the cup than we have been since '06. And as a Caps fan and someone who has followed Trotz closely, I honestly think Woody's a better fit on this team.

We dressed 3 D that were even competent in the playoffs. Ceci, Kulak, even Barrie was OK. Nurse, Bouchard, even Keith were having some terrible moments out there. Nemo, defensively even, its hard to imagine him being worse option than say Keith and Bouchard being pylons on the OT winner. Throughout the playoffs Bouchard was a deer in headlights whenever opposition had the puck around his net. Just standing there. often straight up. This is not a knock on Bouch he's too young, and he looked shellshocked.

 

[ujju2]

We dressed 3 D that were even competent in the playoffs. Ceci, Kulak, even Barrie was OK. Nurse, Bouchard, even Keith were having some terrible moments out there. Nemo, defensively even, its hard to imagine him being worse option than say Keith and Bouchard being pylons on the OT winner. Throughout the playoffs Bouchard was a deer in headlights whenever opposition had the puck around his net. Just standing there. often straight up. This is not a knock on Bouch he's too young, and he looked shellshocked.

Oh I agree about the D. I actually thought outside of a few mistakes Keith was solid, and I thought Ceci wasn't quite as good as I would have liked, but overall I agree with your assessment. I just think in the Avs series Nemo would have been worse.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah Malone was a bit depressing but he clearly trusts the guy more than Holloway et al because he knew him and because he's been around for a while, and I'm glad he at least didn't opt for Turris. Seems his order of depth forwards was Archie/Ryan - Malone - Holloway - Brassard.

I think for Kulak it's just easier to cut his minutes than the big five when you bring in the 7th D. Kosk, Kulak, Brassard and Russell all have one thing in common - expiring this year as UFA. I think Kulak comes back and the rest are gone, so from a long term team chemistry POV, that still plays it pretty safe IMO.

Kulak was our best D in playoffs by Miles. Followed by Ceci, and oddly enough Barrie. All of Nurse, Bouchard, Keith were the GA tirefires that were almost constantly smoldering.

More insertion of Russell, even of Nemo, maybe even Broberg could have helped. Definitely going 11-7 instead of 12-8 helped, and was abandoned mostly as a plan.

On the above list was Shore abducted by Aliens? Strange personnel decisions made in lineup and toi, and implementation. Time after time in playoffs we have our weak lines taking Own zone draws? Who does that? Fitting that it killed our playoffs just to underline the point, again.

 

[redgrant]

Coaching for job security. He has no contract, he's not going to stick his neck out playing rookies in must win games, same with Smith. He probably realizes that Kosk is not any kind of upgrade and part of it is going with the guy that will both - be here next year/is a leader and the guy your GM gave a contract to.

This is his first chance to be a HC in the show and as much as we can analyze these other players maybe giving us a slight edge I doubt anyone here thinks we realistically win this series if those other minor decisions are made. He already tossed our deadline brassard pickup, he's not going to add 3-4 other rogue decisions against the way his extremely veteran GM built the team.

I know it does suck, because you want your coach to maximize the roster and do whatever it takes to win, but if it doesn't work out and he doesn't get extended then he potentially torpedoes his career on long shot galaxy brain coaching decisions, then his family has to live with that. Not us. A coaching extension sets this guy up and that's what he's worked his whole life for, there will be other playoff opportunities. I think he will get extended, but how much of that is the regular season bump and going two rounds, and how much of that is playing ball with his GM? If he doesn't get extended, at least he coached the team in a way he can explain in job interviews to the dinosaurs of the league.

The entire NHL system in an archaic OBC, we know that from watching our org for the last decade. I have trouble blaming a rookie interim HC for not going 'balls out play all the rookies' in do or die playoff games. At the end of the day, the McDavids, Keiths, Smiths, and Nurses of the team are the ones going to go into the year end GM interview and say - bring this guy back next year. That's how he gets rehired. If playing them more than he should have when they were failing accomplishes that, then so be it.

Do I find it a bit disappointing, yes. But the reality is you have to play the political games. He's not a Barry Trotz where he can come in and tell players to do it his way or hit the bricks, he doesn't have that kind of juice yet.

Yes exactly. I dont think a lot of posters here understand basic economics game theory. The team was down 3-0. Woodcroft faced two options stick with Smith or go with Koskinen. Odds of winning the series are close to 0% lets say 1%. Are either of these goalies going to win 4 straight? No.

Four options - winning the series is not one of them as stated.

1. Goes with Smith loses gets an out - you got fans that insist he was better than Koskinen thats why he played.

2. Alternatively he goes with Koskinen and loses. Smith is back next year and Koskinen is not offend a very volatile Smith.

3. Wins with Smith a game or 2 and loses in 5 or 6. Same explanation as point 1.

4. Koskinen wins 1/2 games and Oilers loses the series 4 - 2. Well why didnt you play Mikko earlier? If you didnt give Smith so many starts etc.

There was no winning outcome for Woodcroft regardless of who he chose as the starter and best case Mikko wins a game or two it only makes him look like he made a bad decision when he is trying to get a contract.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Oh I agree about the D. I actually thought outside of a few mistakes Keith was solid, and I thought Ceci wasn't quite as good as I would have liked, but overall I agree with your assessment. I just think in the Avs series Nemo would have been worse.

AV's are susceptible to hitting. Thing to consider is how effective Kane and Kass were in getting the AV's rattled and several of their players don't like getting hit, and the AV's get running around and get off their game when that happens. The thing is 3 of the D we were dressing constantly in the playoffs were high event, and not hitting, and not bringing the physical, and not clearing net or traffic well. Nemo at least would bring the hits. even if he was the same GA he's still bringing more to a series like this because he's hitting a club that doesn't survive hit well. From game 1 I was emphasizing the critical need for the team to pound the AV's. It was the one game we could win against them and when we were punishing the AV's they were off their game. This noted in game 3 primarily.

Look at the 5-5 Kass goal. Its created with a rare Nurse hit (because he's playing injured) the hit creates the turnover, blows up Rantanen, and the Oilers go onto score. Any team that hits the AV's ton and that has scoring talent can beat them. We should be one of those teams. But we didn't hit enough, and we didn't inject the players in the lineup that would hit enough.

 

[Whyme]

Yes exactly. I dont think a lot of posters here understand basic economics game theory. The team was down 3-0. Woodcroft faced two options stick with Smith or go with Koskinen. Odds of winning the series are close to 0% lets say 1%. Are either of these goalies going to win 4 straight? No.

Four options - winning the series is not one of them as stated.

1. Goes with Smith loses gets an out - you got fans that insist he was better than Koskinen thats why he played.

2. Alternatively he goes with Koskinen and loses. Smith is back next year and Koskinen is not offend a very volatile Smith.

3. Wins with Smith a game or 2 and loses in 5 or 6. Same explanation as point 1.

4. Koskinen wins 1/2 games and Oilers loses the series 4 - 2. Well why didnt you play Mikko earlier? If you didnt give Smith so many starts etc.

There was no winning outcome for Woodcroft regardless of who he chose as the starter and best case Mikko wins a game or two it only makes him look like he made a bad decision when he is trying to get a contract.

If Woodcroft thought Koskinen is better but played Smith as he felt the Oilers couldn't win 4 in a row that means there's still a lot to learn. Confident coaches do whatever gives them the best chance to win. They also know mental side is strange and sometimes a new hot goalie gets you to a situation where the other team starts to feel pressure and then anything's possible. The Oilers had ups and downs so you never know what a win or two with Koskinen (if he played his best hockey) could've brought. After all Koskinen looked solid in the game in which he got to play.

 

[redgrant]

If Woodcroft thought Koskinen is better but played Smith as he felt the Oilers couldn't win 4 in a row that means there's still a lot to learn. Confident coaches do whatever gives them the best chance to win. They also know mental side is strange and sometimes a new hot goalie gets you to a situation where the other team starts to feel pressure and then anything's possible. The Oilers had ups and downs so you never know what a win or two with Koskinen (if he played his best hockey) could've brought. After all Koskinen looked solid in the game in which he got to play.

Neither goalie was going to win 4 in a row. The right move was to play Koskinen. I understand why he didnt. Mikko was never going to win 4 in a row.

You need someone like a peak Conn Smythe calibre Jonathan Quick plus a lot of luck to win down 3-0. Playing Mikko would just make Woodcrofts exit interview more difficult.

 

[Whyme]

Neither goalie was going to win 4 in a row. The right move was to play Koskinen. I understand why he didnt. Mikko was never going to win 4 in a row.

You need someone like a peak Conn Smythe calibre Jonathan Quick plus a lot of luck to win down 3-0. Playing Mikko would just make Woodcrofts exit interview more difficult.

I see this differently, if Koskinen had played his best hockey it'd been possible to win 4 in a row. Not likely, but there's been bigger miracles in hockey. I also think the coach needs to do whatever he can for wins and never give up early in order to make his exit interview more pleasant for himself.

 

[Oilhawks]

Bob interviewing Woody and brought up that his wife is from Alberta. Didn’t know that. More reason for him to want to stay

Also in the interview with Bob, Woody was talking about “preparations for next season” as if he’s going to continue with the team. Probably a done deal that they’ll announce later

 

[redgrant]

I see this differently, if Koskinen had played his best hockey it'd been possible to win 4 in a row. Not likely, but there's been bigger miracles in hockey. I also think the coach needs to do whatever he can for wins and never give up early in order to make his exit interview more pleasant for himself.

The odds are close to 1% of this happening statistically. It just was never going to happen with our goalies. We cant keep a beach ball out of our net with either of these guys on any given night.

It sucks because I know Mikko could have at least won game 4.

 

[Whyme]

The odds are close to 1% of this happening statistically. It just was never going to happen with our goalies. We cant keep a beach ball out of our net with either of these guys on any given night.

It sucks because I know Mikko could have at least won game 4.

It's okay for fans to give up, but I hope Woodcroft doesn't think like that. If they had better goalkeeping I think the Oilers have a 50% chance to win any game so after the 4th game they would have a 12,5% chance of winning the rest three. If Koskinen played his very best hockey the chances should be even higher, but of course we don't know if he'd been able to do that.

 

[redgrant]

It's okay for fans to give up, but I hope Woodcroft doesn't think like that. If they had better goalkeeping I think the Oilers have a 50% chance to win any game so after the 4th game they would have a 12,5% chance of winning the rest three. If Koskinen played his very best hockey the chances should be even higher, but of course we don't know if he'd been able to do that.

It doesnt work like that. There isnt a 12.5% chance to win when down 3-0.

 

[Whyme]

It doesnt work like that. There isnt a 12.5% chance to win when down 3-0.

I didn't write like that, I said that'd be the percentage if they'd won the game four. Like I said fans can give up early, but I'm sure Woodcroft and the team felt they had a slight chance. If Woodcroft was certain they had no chance he'd probably given more time to Holloway and let Nurse rest.

 

[Mr Positive]

Bob interviewing Woody and brought up that his wife is from Alberta. Didn’t know that. More reason for him to want to stay

Also in the interview with Bob, Woody was talking about “preparations for next season” as if he’s going to continue with the team. Probably a done deal that they’ll announce later

It obviously is a done deal, or at least it should be.

You don't walk away from what works to go chasing some big name, shiny new toy. I don't see the value in interviewing anyone else. Woody just had a 5 month interview. Someone is supposed to surpass that with an hour of nice words? Nah

 

[MettleMcOiler]

Woodcroft has done an admirable job for coming into the middle of the season. Refocused the team and brought out more from everyone than most people thought was possible.
He's done good work, and someone that seems to continue to learn and adjust with what he has.
I think he is a coach that the Oilers will be confident moving forward with. As a fan, I would be too.

 

[FlameChampion]

Read on Reddit that Woodcroft wants to bring in some of his own assistants (outside of Manson) and have more roster control. Guess theres some rumours that Holland pressured him during the season to play certain players.

Anyone know if these rumours are true or where they are coming from?

I have wondered how much control of the players Woodcroft had during his time up. Some of the roster decisions were kind of weird to me (from Woodcrofts perspective).

 

[Beerfish]

Read on Reddit that Woodcroft wants to bring in some of his own assistants (outside of Manson) and have more roster control. Guess theres some rumours that Holland pressured him during the season to play certain players.

Anyone know if these rumours are true or where they are coming from?

I have wondered how much control of the players Woodcroft had during his time up. Some of the roster decisions were kind of weird to me (from Woodcrofts perspective).

This is exactly what I think happened. Sticking with Smith all the time to me had holland written all over it.

Woodcroft should play hard ball on this.

 

[Zerotonine]

***crickets***

Read on Reddit that Woodcroft wants to bring in some of his own assistants (outside of Manson) and have more roster control. Guess theres some rumours that Holland pressured him during the season to play certain players.

Anyone know if these rumours are true or where they are coming from?

I have wondered how much control of the players Woodcroft had during his time up. Some of the roster decisions were kind of weird to me (from Woodcrofts perspective).

That would make sense how he kept going back to smith. Hopefully one of his assistants is a goalie coach

 

[JordanGalhanth]

I have an awful feeling that Holland will let Woodcroft walk and chase after Trotz... #reversejinx

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Read on Reddit that Woodcroft wants to bring in some of his own assistants (outside of Manson) and have more roster control. Guess theres some rumours that Holland pressured him during the season to play certain players.

Anyone know if these rumours are true or where they are coming from?

I have wondered how much control of the players Woodcroft had during his time up. Some of the roster decisions were kind of weird to me (from Woodcrofts perspective).

This is why Babcock left Detroit.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Read on Reddit that Woodcroft wants to bring in some of his own assistants (outside of Manson) and have more roster control. Guess theres some rumours that Holland pressured him during the season to play certain players.

Anyone know if these rumours are true or where they are coming from?

I have wondered how much control of the players Woodcroft had during his time up. Some of the roster decisions were kind of weird to me (from Woodcrofts perspective).

Yeah just for goaltending alone it made no sense for Woodcroft to not try Skinner despite advocating for him his entire career. That had "Ken didn't wanna disrespect good ol veterans Schmiddy and Koski by putting them on waivers" all over it.

 

[sandhu111]

There was apparently a meeting with Dan milstein? Today he's the agent for kane and khuzmenko.
It was holland, woodcroft and Hyman were there.
Sounds like a done deal if he's helping court free agents

 

[Cloned]

There was apparently a meeting with Dan milstein? Today he's the agent for kane and khuzmenko.
It was holland, woodcroft and Hyman were there.
Sounds like a done deal if he's helping court free agents

Tippett helped court Kane before he got fired

 

[Zerotonine]

The regular season record amd what the oilers did in the playoffs Holland has o choir but to sign Woodcroft. And if McDavid and Drai said then want him back Holland 8s in a rock and a hard place..

I'm sure even Katz is curious to what's the hold. Almost like it would be Holland moving on before woodcroft