Player Discussion Jay Woodcroft

[Tad Mikowsky]

To think, people wanted him fired smh

 

[Barrsy]

I thought he was supposed to have been fired into the Sun by now

 

[North Cole]

I thought he was supposed to have been fired into the Sun by now

That was and remains an embarrassing thread.

Yup, I think it was a few things. They were starting to buy into the message more, and Woody and Manson started to cut the bullshit a bit and went to what works. Then they called up Desharnais for an ingredient they lacked in the d corps. Trading for Ekholm further accentuated these changes and gave the team more stability and defensive swagger (and also unlocked Bouchard again and gave Nurse some breathing room to return to play at his peak levels).

Yeah I think the team just needed a couple guys that can make simple plays and not get overwhelmed by a forecheck or at least not lose their positioning if the breakout falls apart. Part of defense is believing that your structure is intact, if you don't believe the structure is working you chase and cheat and then you get scored on.

With the goalies not letting in every 3rd HD chance and guys actually pulling their weight, the players probably feel more confident remaining in the structure and rotating their checks off to the next guy. If you don't believe in the guy next to you and you cheat to that side to cover, you leave holes that the next guy has to cover and so on.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Woody is no coaching savant. This team would have a similar if not better record with almost any other NHL coach not named Darryl Sutter or Dallas Eakins and quite possibly have another 5-10 more points with one of the better coaches out there.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH and Hyman are not having career years because anything Woodcroft is doing. Ekholm has stabilized the D. Finally getting consistent goaltending.

He’s an average rookie coach learning on the fly as to what makes this team tick and has gotten better with his deployments and thankfully largely dropped the long pass to nobody breakout which even seasoned NHL veteran ex player analysts were questioning.

He’s improved this year but so has his personnel. When Trotz went to be a GM I said might as well hang onto Woody, and he will probably be ok, time will tell. He hasnt won anything yet.

 

[guymez]

That was and remains an embarrassing thread.

Yeah I think the team just needed a couple guys that can make simple plays and not get overwhelmed by a forecheck or at least not lose their positioning if the breakout falls apart. Part of defense is believing that your structure is intact, if you don't believe the structure is working you chase and cheat and then you get scored on.

With the goalies not letting in every 3rd HD chance and guys actually pulling their weight, the players probably feel more confident remaining in the structure and rotating their checks off to the next guy. If you don't believe in the guy next to you and you cheat to that side to cover, you leave holes that the next guy has to cover and so on.

100%
If processes beak down then the system breaks down. If one or more players simply cant execute the system (by responsibly executing their duties within the system) then you deal with the players. Only after that do you consider a different system

What I found a little ridiculous was the criticism on here about the system without even a consideration regarding the lack of execution.
This team has cycled through so many good coaches (like Todd McLellan) it had become blatantly obvious that there were player issues. Holland has addressed that (in part) by replacing some of the players with better players. That lessened the responsibility (and the need to do too much) for some of the remaining players.
The other issue for me was immaturity.
I am looking at McDavid and Draisaitl primarily when I mention that because the defensive game for them (for too long) was an after thought.
It messed up coverage and systems play for many of the forwards and impacted overall team defence. That has also changed. Connor and Leon are now playing a more mature game.
A consistent game with a priority to defensive positioning and to puck management and the team is following.

Its a joy to watch.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Woody is no coaching savant. This team would have a similar if not better record with almost any other NHL coach not named Darryl Sutter or Dallas Eakins and quite possibly have another 5-10 more points with one of the better coaches out there.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH and Hyman are not having career years because anything Woodcroft is doing. Ekholm has stabilized the D. Finally getting consistent goaltending.

He’s an average rookie coach learning on the fly as to what makes this team tick and has gotten better with his deployments and thankfully largely dropped the long pass to nobody breakout which even seasoned NHL veteran ex player analysts were questioning.

He’s improved this year but so has his personnel. When Trotz went to be a GM I said might as well hang onto Woody, and he will probably be ok, time will tell. He hasnt won anything yet.

I guarantee you we'd be worse with coaches like Tortorella/DeBoer/Bowness. There's even a "successful" coach out there who unironically views getting respect in the handshake line as an achievement. You're greatly overrating the average NHL coach. Even if you think he's not on Cooper/Bednar's level you can do far worse than Woody coaching wise.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This is very good

 

[Beerfish]

If we lose in the first round people will be yelling for him to fired once again.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I guarantee you we'd be worse with coaches like Tortorella/DeBoer/Bowness. There's even a "successful" coach out there who unironically views getting respect in the handshake line as an achievement. You're greatly overrating the average NHL coach. Even if you think he's not on Cooper/Bednar's level you can do far worse than Woody coaching wise.

The only coach I'd want right now ahead of Woodcroft is Trotz but obviously he's unavailable.

And man Bednar led the Avs to the worst record in the league in his first year.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

If we lose in the first round people will be yelling for him to fired once again.

Probably, but that would also be a big disappointment

 

[ohheyhemsky]

This is very good

All them arrows pointing in the right direction at the right time.

Just need to hold onto our butts banking on a rookie goaltender to hold the fort in the play-offs. Skinner has been absolutely unreal for us, but I'll admit I always forget the pace of play-off hockey until it starts again and even just watching highlights is a good reminder of the 'next level' of play:

 

[FlameChampion]

Woody is no coaching savant. This team would have a similar if not better record with almost any other NHL coach not named Darryl Sutter or Dallas Eakins and quite possibly have another 5-10 more points with one of the better coaches out there.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH and Hyman are not having career years because anything Woodcroft is doing. Ekholm has stabilized the D. Finally getting consistent goaltending.

He’s an average rookie coach learning on the fly as to what makes this team tick and has gotten better with his deployments and thankfully largely dropped the long pass to nobody breakout which even seasoned NHL veteran ex player analysts were questioning.

He’s improved this year but so has his personnel. When Trotz went to be a GM I said might as well hang onto Woody, and he will probably be ok, time will tell. He hasnt won anything yet.

Seems to me that the players know its a long season and have been pacing themselves. At New Years, they ramped it up a bit. After the trade deadline, they ramped it up again. And now with playoffs coming, they have ramped it up another notch.

Just my feelings on the matter. Not sure that anyone is to be blamed or be praised or anything (players or coaching). Team just knows its go time now, and thats what their doing.

 

[Barrsy]

Woody is no coaching savant. This team would have a similar if not better record with almost any other NHL coach not named Darryl Sutter or Dallas Eakins and quite possibly have another 5-10 more points with one of the better coaches out there.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH and Hyman are not having career years because anything Woodcroft is doing. Ekholm has stabilized the D. Finally getting consistent goaltending.

He’s an average rookie coach learning on the fly as to what makes this team tick and has gotten better with his deployments and thankfully largely dropped the long pass to nobody breakout which even seasoned NHL veteran ex player analysts were questioning.

He’s improved this year but so has his personnel. When Trotz went to be a GM I said might as well hang onto Woody, and he will probably be ok, time will tell. He hasnt won anything yet.

This funny. Very scientific as well.
Its amazing that when some people are so demonstrably wrong time and time again, some will just keep doubling down.
Such is the human condition

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

All them arrows pointing in the right direction at the right time.

Just need to hold onto our butts banking on a rookie goaltender to hold the fort in the play-offs. Skinner has been absolutely unreal for us, but I'll admit I always forget the pace of play-off hockey until it starts again and even just watching highlights is a good reminder of the 'next level' of play:

Fair on Skinner, but he's also been his best when it's mattered most, he's lost 1 game in regulation in a month and half

Woody is no coaching savant. This team would have a similar if not better record with almost any other NHL coach not named Darryl Sutter or Dallas Eakins and quite possibly have another 5-10 more points with one of the better coaches out there.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH and Hyman are not having career years because anything Woodcroft is doing. Ekholm has stabilized the D. Finally getting consistent goaltending.

He’s an average rookie coach learning on the fly as to what makes this team tick and has gotten better with his deployments and thankfully largely dropped the long pass to nobody breakout which even seasoned NHL veteran ex player analysts were questioning.

He’s improved this year but so has his personnel. When Trotz went to be a GM I said might as well hang onto Woody, and he will probably be ok, time will tell. He hasnt won anything yet.

Hey man, go join the Kraken. This is f***ing nonsense, don't you get tired of being utterly wrong?

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Woody is no coaching savant. This team would have a similar if not better record with almost any other NHL coach not named Darryl Sutter or Dallas Eakins and quite possibly have another 5-10 more points with one of the better coaches out there.

McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH and Hyman are not having career years because anything Woodcroft is doing. Ekholm has stabilized the D. Finally getting consistent goaltending.

He’s an average rookie coach learning on the fly as to what makes this team tick and has gotten better with his deployments and thankfully largely dropped the long pass to nobody breakout which even seasoned NHL veteran ex player analysts were questioning.

He’s improved this year but so has his personnel. When Trotz went to be a GM I said might as well hang onto Woody, and he will probably be ok, time will tell. He hasnt won anything yet.

Pretty much. The team being mostly crap for the first 50 games still did occur, despite what has happened since. Ekholm has had a Pronger level impact on this team, this isn't a case of Woody heroics. That said, he's smartened back up and regained my confidence heading into the playoffs. The stretch pass shit being mostly gone is a huge relief. How Woody handles Skinner if/when there's a hiccup might be the key decision he faces in the playoffs. If he can navigate it and win us a Cup make him coach for life for all I care lol!

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Fair on Skinner, but he's also been his best when it's mattered most, he's lost 1 game in regulation in a month and half

Which is all the really matters imo. The ability to elevate play with the significance of the game is probably the best attribute a goalie can have, second only to staying even keel through ups and downs -- which is another strength of skinners. He's definitely shown he has the mental tools needed to win in the playoffs imo

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Hey man, go join the Kraken. This is f***ing nonsense, don't you get tired of being utterly wrong?

Why would I join the Kraken? What have I said that’s nonsense? He’s an average rookie coach who’s improving. Fair statement if you ask me.

And while I thought he was the wrong coach (and Trotz was the guy we needed ) that may indeed be very wrong if he takes us to the promised land. He’s had the right touch lately.

This funny. Very scientific as well.
Its amazing that when some people are so demonstrably wrong time and time again, some will just keep doubling down.
Such is the human condition

You’ve a human condition as well, I believe it’s called being a dick.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I guarantee you we'd be worse with coaches like Tortorella/DeBoer/Bowness. There's even a "successful" coach out there who unironically views getting respect in the handshake line as an achievement. You're greatly overrating the average NHL coach. Even if you think he's not on Cooper/Bednar's level you can do far worse than Woody coaching wise.

I’ll give you Torts, maybe Bowness as both are pretty hard ass but DeBoer has claimed serious winning records with every team he’s coached.

Woody is in the middle of the pack coaching wise (my opinion) but has improved no question.

I never have sad he was among the worst but people seem to be conflating my statements. Fair enough.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

If we lose in the first round people will be yelling for him to fired once again.

If he loses in the first round and it’s not a goaltending meltdown the conversation should be had. We are in a clear window and ticking clock contract wise right now.

A First round loss would be an abject failure and given our talent would probably mean one of three things happened, A; we had a goalie meltdown, B; we got goalied, or C; he got his ass handed to him coaching wise. If it’s C you have to ask why.

I am not sure there are others available right now who would be any better though.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

100%
If processes beak down then the system breaks down. If one or more players simply cant execute the system (by responsibly executing their duties within the system) then you deal with the players. Only after that do you consider a different system

What I found a little ridiculous was the criticism on here about the system without even a consideration regarding the lack of execution.
This team has cycled through so many good coaches (like Todd McLellan) it had become blatantly obvious that there were player issues. Holland has addressed that (in part) by replacing some of the players with better players. That lessened the responsibility (and the need to do too much) for some of the remaining players.
The other issue for me was immaturity.
I am looking at McDavid and Draisaitl primarily when I mention that because the defensive game for them (for too long) was an after thought.
It messed up coverage and systems play for many of the forwards and impacted overall team defence. That has also changed. Connor and Leon are now playing a more mature game.
A consistent game with a priority to defensive positioning and to puck management and the team is following.

Its a joy to watch.

I’ve had my doubts that a rookie head coach could get the most out of this group and while I understand the system doesn’t matter if players don’t execute, it’s the coaches job to get the players to execute, even the superstars, which wasn’t happening early on. Execution wasn’t the only issue though, he failed to make adjustments to our defensive schemes and breakout earlier in the year that was clearly resulting in an unacceptable level of chances and goals against.

Ekholm has obviously been a big part of the turn around but it’s almost unbelievable how they’ve basically just flipped a switch and top to bottom have been playing sound defensive hockey and the goalies are making the saves they’re supposed to. It’s definitely nice not feeling anxious every time the puck is in our zone.

I had my concerns but I’ll give the man his props, he’s got them fighting for top spot in the conference and playing their best hockey at the right time but there is definitely still another level for this team and he’s gonna have to push them there if they want to have a shot at the cup.

 

[LTIR]

Nuge having gone through a dozen or so coaches as an Oiler is probably happy with who he currently has as his coach.

 

[guymez]

I’ve had my doubts that a rookie head coach could get the most out of this group and while I understand the system doesn’t matter if players don’t execute, it’s the coaches job to get the players to execute, even the superstars, which wasn’t happening early on. Execution wasn’t the only issue though, he failed to make adjustments to our defensive schemes and breakout earlier in the year that was clearly resulting in an unacceptable level of chances and goals against.

Ekholm has obviously been a big part of the turn around but it’s almost unbelievable how they’ve basically just flipped a switch and top to bottom have been playing sound defensive hockey and the goalies are making the saves they’re supposed to. It’s definitely nice not feeling anxious every time the puck is in our zone.

I had my concerns but I’ll give the man his props, he’s got them fighting for top spot in the conference and playing their best hockey at the right time but there is definitely still another level for this team and he’s gonna have to push them there if they want to have a shot at the cup.

Here's the thing...can you name a coach in the last 5 years that was able to 'get' the players to execute? There wasnt one...until Woodcroft.
He gets major props for that IMO.

Regarding adjustments for defensive schemes....this season wasnt without its challenges. As you pointed out Woodcroft is essentially a rookie coach. There were many times this season where players were so off in their coverage that it was clear that the missed assignments were more about execution than schemes. Not to say that Woodcroft didnt have to make some adjustments (he is learning) but IMO it was more about the players than anything else. I also think that there was some experimenting being done to try and garner more defensive buy in from the team. Something that no previous coach in the McDavid era was able to accomplish.

One adjustment that Woodcroft did make was to run 11-7 for games. That allowed him to include an extra dman and reduce the load overall. It also allowed him to create mismatches by utilizing Drai and McDavid on other lines. Something that no other previous coach utilized as effectively.

All things considered (especially the lack of even League average goaltending in the first half of the season) he was able to get the buy in he required to make a push for first place in the Division. The below average goaltending and a less than average defence (especially the top 4) was a lot to overcome.
Woodcroft deserves some recognition IMO.
His accomplishments to this point far outweigh his rookie mistakes as a coach.

Now he needs to get this team to take the next step...make an appearance in the Stanley Cup Final.

 

[McBooya42]

Here's the thing...can you name a coach in the last 5 years that was able to 'get' the players to execute? There wasnt one...until Woodcroft.
He gets major props for that IMO.

Regarding adjustments for defensive schemes....this season wasnt without its challenges. As you pointed out Woodcroft is essentially a rookie coach. There were many times this season where players were so off in their coverage that it was clear that the missed assignments were more about execution than schemes. Not to say that Woodcroft didnt have to make some adjustments (he is learning) but IMO it was more about the players than anything else. I also think that there was some experimenting being done to try and garner more defensive buy in from the team. Something that no previous coach in the McDavid era was able to accomplish.

One adjustment that Woodcroft did make was to run 11-7 for games. That allowed him to include an extra dman and reduce the load overall. It also allowed him to create mismatches by utilizing Drai and McDavid on other lines. Something that no other previous coach utilized as effectively.

All things considered (especially the lack of even League average goaltending in the first half of the season) he was able to get the buy in he required to make a push for first place in the Division. The below average goaltending and a less than average defence (especially the top 4) was a lot to overcome.
Woodcroft deserves some recognition IMO.
His accomplishments to this point far outweigh his rookie mistakes as a coach.

Now he needs to get this team to take the next step...make an appearance in the Stanley Cup Final.

To add to this was adding McDavid to the PK - a subtle change that has ended with us leading the league in SHG.
I know it's from Reddit, but give it a read (it's quite good).

 

[guymez]

To add to this was adding McDavid to the PK - a subtle change that has ended with us leading the league in SHG.
I know it's from Reddit, but give it a read (it's quite good).

Very interesting read. Much appreciated.

Aside form utilizing McDavid more on the PK its especially interesting to see the SH usage and how it changed with both the V.D. addition and then Ekholm.

Lastly the line "you can't be a cup contender by trying to outscore your defensive problems" is something I have been railing about for most of this season.
Its obvious to me that this team has come a long ways in terms of tightening up their puck management and defensive responsibilities.
Much of the credit for that has to fall at the feet of Woodcroft.

Now the exciting part...seeing how this improved version of the Oilers does in the playoffs.

If they can maintain the game we have seen since Ekholm arrived then I honestly believe that this team can beat anyone in a 7 game series.
Injuries aside...if they dont at least make it to the SC Final then this season will be a major disappointment.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

NHL.com talked about who should win the Jack Adams award.

Woodcroft received zero votes.

Yikes.