Player Discussion Jay Beagle

[Peter10]

Do you actually think these are clever? Obviously you do but they're not. They're stupid and half the time they miss the obvious context.

I mean look at this one. Obvious hockey cliches said by the management of every non competitive team ever. Wow, gotcha moment or what! So frickin stoopid it makes my head hurt that some dip **** is giggling to himself when he makes these, thinking they're the cleverest internetter out there. Stop posting them, at least outside the management cess pool thread.

No its not clever, it is just re-posting obvious dumb stuff said by clueless people. And stuff like "accelerating the rebuild" is not a cliche, it is just idiotic.

Anyway, feel free to put me on ignore, no hard feelings.

 

[Fire Benning]

"He’s a guy who is a warrior, had great experience, is still playing at a very high level. When I talked at the end of the year about the need for our group to better understand the commitment level necessary to have success, Andrew’s the guy who not only can articulate that, but he demonstrates it by the way he plays."

- Mactavish about Ference

We really are the new Oilers

Beagle is basically our Boyd Gordon.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Do you actually think these are clever? Obviously you do but they're not. They're stupid and half the time they miss the obvious context.

I mean look at this one. Obvious hockey cliches said by the management of every non competitive team ever. Wow, gotcha moment or what! So frickin stoopid it makes my head hurt that some dip **** is giggling to himself when he makes these, thinking they're the cleverest internetter out there. Stop posting them, at least outside the management cess pool thread.

McDavid and Luca Sbisa both said they need to get pucks to the net in an interview, they must be the same player.

 

[pgj98m3]

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ben-kuzma-beagle-shares-canucks-camp-spotlight-with-fab-fitness-stunning-speed

I wonder how guys like @MS @cookiefest @Melvin have any sort of credibility when they’re on record calling Jay Beagle a slug. How can someone make such an embarrassing pro scouting mistake on the one hand and then say the Canucks have bad pro scouting?

Anyway, I’m looking forward to Jay Beagle being a steal at $3 million a year.

Since you meant to include me I will respond....I'm looking forward to you apologizing and being humble when he tops out as an average 4th liner for a team finishing in the bottom five. When he is hidden in the minors or bought out maybe you will refrain from pretending to know anything about hockey.

 

[Peter10]

McDavid and Luca Sbisa both said they need to get pucks to the net in an interview, they must be the same player.

Link or it didnt happen

 

[megatron]

No its not clever, it is just re-posting obvious dumb stuff said by clueless people. And stuff like "accelerating the rebuild" is not a cliche, it is just idiotic.

Anyway, feel free to put me on ignore, no hard feelings.

I didn't know that twitter account belonged to you. Thanks for doing that, its nice to have a record of all the dumb sh*** that is said.
On a similar note, I remember a quote that i heard from Linden he was rattling off all the young players a couple of years ago and he included... "the megnas, the chaputs..." I couldnt find that clip anymore, but it would be a great listen. Still shaking my head he included those 2 guys.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I've seen a couple things on Jay Beagle's start here and really liked what I saw so far. Quality guy.

Don't like the contract but can see why the Caps team and fans would have been sorry to see him leave.

 

[Peter10]

I didn't know that twitter account belonged to you. Thanks for doing that, its nice to have a record of all the dumb sh*** that is said.
On a similar note, I remember a quote that i heard from Linden he was rattling off all the young players a couple of years ago and he included... "the megnas, the chaputs..." I couldnt find that clip anymore, but it would be a great listen. Still shaking my head he included those 2 guys.

I think that was actually Willie Desjardins who referred to a 27y old Megna as a "kid" but wouldnt surprise me if Linden did something similar.

 

[Shareefruck]

Swing for the extreme is one way to distract from his actual point...
A good solid typical Go-to move..

Got two of them too.

Yikes. Seriously?

It's a sarcastic swing for the opposite extreme deliberately used to highlight the problem with his actual point. The hyperbole is used to communicate that it's as grossly premature as calling him a cup-winning 1st liner would be.

I don't see how anyone can call that a distraction tactic. It's direct and pointed ridicule, which is fair enough considering how stupid the original point was.

It's completely missing the point of the response to mistake that for a serious attempt to misrepresent the argument while genuinely making the same mistake.

 

[Shareefruck]

If you're skeptical about that and think I'm doing a disingenuous defensive spin-job, take a look at RonningMorrisonBooth, a guy who's obviously on your side of the argument, but who correctly and intuitively understood the point of the jab the same way I did (and really, that anyone should be able to) and how he responded to it in kind.

Hand him the Hart Trophy now, its a non-contest anyway with that sort of first day at camp.

You're right, this could be a lucky day for him. We need to wait and see if he's a good skater or not. How long do you think it will take before it will be enough time to judge?

He sure as hell didn't seem to be under the impression that it was a serious attempt to misrepresent the original point with an extreme conclusion. Instead, he correctly identified that the smart-ass remark was about the prematurity of the conclusion and he responded by attempting to address that counter-point.

That makes sense. What you went after really really didn't.

 

[DL44]

If Gudbranson has a monster game in game 1 of the season.. and I say "Wow, great game Gudbranson"...
Guarnteed that people here would rather react with a sarcastic post including the words "Norris trophy", or "$12mil"... to deflect discussing the game in the moment.
It is the typical "imprortant to win the internet" reaction.

Its also somehow related to big influx of debate pre-pre-season for reason.. everyone getting their final licks in before the firat game here to let everyine know qhere they stand in case anyone had forgotten over the summer.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

I definitely perceived it as a disingenuous response meant to deflect the point I made, because it was. Flippant or not it doesn't change that fact.

The evidence presented in the article along with every other NHL game Jay Beagle has played is enough to conclude that he is a high end skater but we have respected posters here calling him a slow slug and hear radio silence from them when called out. Disappointing.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

I've seen a couple things on Jay Beagle's start here and really liked what I saw so far. Quality guy.

Don't like the contract but can see why the Caps team and fans would have been sorry to see him leave.

Yep, perfectl decent player on a 2x2 kind of deal.

 

[Shareefruck]

I definitely perceived it as a disingenuous response meant to deflect the point I made, because it was. Flippant or not it doesn't change that fact.

The evidence presented in the article along with every other NHL game Jay Beagle has played is enough to conclude that he is a high end skater but we have respected posters here calling him a slow slug and hear radio silence from them when called out. Disappointing.

Did you think it was an actual attempt to make it seem like you were arguing that Beagle is actually a 1st liner (or something equally unreasonable)?
Or did you think it was an attempt to dismiss your point based on the fact that it's only based on training camp assessments (using flippant exaggeration to show that perceived flaw)?

If you think it's the latter (whether you think it's a bad argument/stupid reach or not), Literally's claim of it swinging for an extreme to distract from the point doesn't work, in my opinion.

 

[DL44]

^you are trying too hard now...

 

[DL44]

Back on topic....
If Beagle keeps crushing it in physical conditioning and testing... it definitely eases concerns on how he will look in yr 4 of the contract..

A work ethic and effort level for the youngens to aspire to acheiving apparently... at least thats good, right?

 

[Shareefruck]

If Gudbranson has a monster game in game 1 of the season.. and I say "Wow, great game Gudbranson"...
Guarnteed that people here would rather react with a sarcastic post including the words "Norris trophy", or "$12mil"... to deflect discussing the game in the moment.
It is the typical "imprortant to win the internet" reaction.

Its also somehow related to big influx of debate pre-pre-season for reason.. everyone getting their final licks in before the firat game here to let everyine know qhere they stand in case anyone had forgotten over the summer.

^you are trying too hard now...

That isn't analogous to what happened here.

This would be a comparable analogy
1) Gudbranson scores a goal and looks amazing in the home opener
2) RonningMorrisonBooth declares that "Gudbranson haters' have now been proven wrong"
3) Someone flippantly replies "Yeah, it looks like Gudbranson is a Norris trophy contender, since he's on pace for 82 goals. You're totally right."
4) You go "Ugh! I agree that telling people to eat crow based on one game is premature, but you're using an extreme to distract from the actual point!"

4 wouldn't make any sense and would similarly be a poor case of remark/ridicule comprehension. The extreme/exaggeration IS directly addressing the actual point, because that's how ridicule works.

Rather than just charging past my point, rolling your eyes, and letting all of your dismissive assumptions about people's biases/narratives inform what you buy/don't buy, tell me what you think is logically inaccurate about that, specifically, without all the baggage.

Maybe this will help:
1) Gaunce scores a goal and looks amazing in the home opener
2) MS declares that "Gaunce haters' have now been proven wrong"
3) krutovsdonut flippantly replies "Yeah, it looks like Gaunce is a Hart Trophy contender, since he's on pace for 82 goals. You're totally right."
4) CanaFan goes "Ugh! I agree that telling people to eat crow based on one game is premature, but you're using an extreme to distract from the actual point!"

Would CanaFan be right or wrong to react that way?

 

[valkynax]

Back on topic....
If Beagle keeps crushing it in physical conditioning and testing... it definitely eases concerns on how he will look in yr 4 of the contract..

A work ethic and effort level for the youngens to aspire to acheiving apparently... at least thats good, right?

Still won't change the fact that he's grossly overpaid.

Even if he's not, this is not what this team needs - we need players who can f***ing score, who can defend, who are actually...you know..good.

You bring in someone like Beagle when you already have those other pieces. You bring in Beagle when you're certain the team is lock and loaded.

I don't doubt he's a hard worker, but a hard worker who can score 20 points a season is still just a 4th liner.

 

[forty47seven]

Back on topic....
If Beagle keeps crushing it in physical conditioning and testing... it definitely eases concerns on how he will look in yr 4 of the contract..

A work ethic and effort level for the youngens to aspire to acheiving apparently... at least thats good, right?

Crushing it in physical testing doesn't have anything to with how he will look in year four of this contract. The Sedins were at the top of Canucks physical testing right up to end of careers. Their tireless work ethic couldn't stop them from falling off a production cliff around 34 years old. For a 4th liners, falling of the cliff means the AHL or retirement.

 

[DonnyNucker]

That isn't analogous to what happened here.

This would be a comparable analogy
1) Gudbranson scores a goal and looks amazing in the home opener
2) RonningMorrisonBooth declares that "Gudbranson haters' have now been proven wrong"
3) Someone flippantly replies "Yeah, it looks like Gudbranson is a Norris trophy contender, since he's on pace for 82 goals. You're totally right."
4) You go "Ugh! I agree that telling people to eat crow based on one game is premature, but you're using an extreme to distract from the actual point!"

4 wouldn't make any sense and would similarly be a poor case of remark/ridicule comprehension. The extreme/exaggeration IS directly addressing the actual point, because that's how ridicule works.

Rather than just charging past my point, rolling your eyes, and letting all of your dismissive assumptions about people's biases/narratives inform what you buy/don't buy, tell me what you think is logically inaccurate about that, specifically, without all the baggage.

Maybe this will help:
1) Gaunce scores a goal and looks amazing in the home opener
2) MS declares that "Gaunce haters' have now been proven wrong"
3) krutovsdonut flippantly replies "Yeah, it looks like Gaunce is a Hart Trophy contender, since he's on pace for 82 goals. You're totally right."
4) CanaFan goes "Ugh! I agree that telling people to eat crow based on one game is premature, but you're using an extreme to distract from the actual point!"

Would CanaFan be right or wrong to react that way?

Sigh, ruining another thread I see. Please go to sleep.

 

[DL44]

Crushing it in physical testing doesn't have anything to with how he will look in year four of this contract. The Sedins were at the top of Canucks physical testing right up to end of careers. Their tireless work ethic couldn't stop them from falling off a production cliff around 34 years old. For a 4th liners, falling of the cliff means the AHL or retirement.

True..
But it’s more promising than if he wasn’t crushing it.
Every individual is just that.. an individual on their own yet to determined paths.
We’ll see how he fits in and performs this yr... then next and then eventually in yr 4.
Im not worrying about yr 3 or 4 right now. I’m waiting to see what he does for us this October.

 

[forty47seven]

True..
But it’s more promising than if he wasn’t crushing it.
Every individual is just that.. an individual on their own yet to determined paths.
We’ll see how he fits in and performs this yr... then next and then eventually in yr 4.
Im not worrying about yr 3 or 4 right now. I’m waiting to see what he does for us this October.

Here's hoping he can stay healthy and play like the player the Canucks think they're getting. He's a much better 4th line center than Dowd or Gagner which is nice in the short term. I'm not as optimistic about his future as you, excellent conditioning or not, father time is going to catch up with him.

 

[DL44]

Here's hoping he can stay healthy and play like the player the Canucks think they're getting. He's a much better 4th line center than Dowd or Gagner which is nice in the short term. I'm not as optimistic about his future as you, excellent conditioning or not, father time is going to catch up with him.

Guess we’ll have to wait and find out when that happens.. together.
We are all Canucks... right?

 

[DL44]

https://www.tsn.ca/beagle-showing-fitness-leadership-at-canucks-training-camp-1.1174206

"I don't think I've ever seen a professional athlete like that before in real life," said Adam Gaudette, who played five games with the Canucks last year and is competing for a spot on this season's roster.
"It's pretty cool to come in see. I'm just trying to watch what he does on and off the ice. ... I'm just trying to emulate him as much as possible."

"He's a top-conditioned athlete that works really hard, has great habits," Green said. "He's come as advertised so far."

The veteran's fitness has been a topic of conversation around the rink in Whistler, but Beagle said he didn't do anything special to get ready for the Canucks camp this off-season.
"It's just who I am," he said.

He's just kind of revving me up, getting me going," the 21-year-old said. "So it's good to have that. It just makes it all the more fun and I think it brings the guys closer together."
Beagle said he isn't much of a talker in the locker room, preferring to lead by example. He didn't intend to take Gaudette under his wing, but is happy to help the younger centre any way he can.
"(Gaudette's) a great kid, a great guy. ... I'll try not to let him down," Beagle said with a laugh. "He wants to learn and wants to compete and that's a good guy to have around."

———————————————-

Schaller -Beagle-Gaudette?

Could be....

 

[Shareefruck]

Sigh, ruining another thread I see. Please go to sleep.

Pointing out what's irrational and unfair about someone's point and meticulously breaking down why that's the case when disputed instead of just dismissively calling bull-**** = ruining another thread