Yea I can believe some other teams couldve offered him 3x3 in a possible bidding war. An extra year likely sealed the deal. Benning was likely way higher than other offers from teams that dont have state income taxes etc
Player Discussion Jay Beagle
- Thread starter Zombotron
- Start date
Need to add a bunch of cash Mike Commodore style
Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Beagle is ok as a 4th liner, but he got paid to much and for to long for being a 4th liner.
You can disagree but Beagle isn't considered just an "ok" 4th liner but among the best 4th line Cs if not the best the past few years. I do agree that he is paid an inflated price and for much too long.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
i dont think hes among the best 4th line centers Cizikas,Cullen, Copp & Sissons . But ok was maybe a little harsh. to me he is a guy you keep on the 4th line, He shouldn't be moved up and I think you should keep your 4th line cheap. The Washington does that they spend their money on the top 9 and use cheap players for the 4th line is to me a smart way to build a team.
You can always find cheap players that can do a fine 4th line job.
You can always find cheap players that can do a fine 4th line job.
You don't think he is amongst the best 4th line Cs but you only named 4 others who you think are better than him. I consider top 5 to be amongst the best.
Matt Cullen is awesome and has been underpaid because he's old. When he was younger he was an elite 3rd line C. Signing a 33 year old Matt Cullen to a 4 year contract at $3M AAV would have been a steal in hindsight. As for Copp, I was under the impression that most of Copp's offensive production last season occurred when he was playing on the wing. Sissons switched between wing and C as well. Cizikas was signed to a 6 year contract worth $3.35M AAV which included RFA years. He was not signed to be a 4th line C.
As for your comment about Washington, Beagle was the 8th highest paid forward on the team last year on a contract that was signed 3 years prior. Beagle's cap hit in his last contract was $1.75M AAV. For comparisons sake, Chimera was paid $2M AAV for his UFA years coming off a 19 point season but strong playoffs in the same year. Brad Richardson signed a 3 year contract for $2M+ coming off a 21 point in 45 games season and 90+% of posters here thought it was best to let him go at that price.
Personally, I don't think Beagle's reputation as one of the best 4th line Cs in the league over the past 2-4 years is in dispute. But feel free to share your opinion. If you don't consider him top 5, would you consider him top 10? Top 15? Not even top 20?
Well once you reach the bottom of top 10 or top 15 thats getting into average terrority if there is only 31 in the league. If you consider him top 5 then yes you should call him one of the best 4th line C in the league. Everything past that isnt really noteworthy.
Haha, we are literally talking about the worst 25% of centers in the NHL and are wondering if Beagle is at the top of that list? Like opening a garbage bin and seeing what's on top. Still garbage.
You don't win by overpaying players at the bottom of the roster.
You don't win by overpaying players at the bottom of the roster.
timbermen
Registered User
- Nov 14, 2017
- 1,332
- 690
Every player in the league that plays on a 4th line sucks?It's the NHL,not pee wee.
Beagle could be the best fourth liner in the world. I don't think he is but let's say he is.
The best 4th liner in the world is still a 10-12 minute a night player. Even the best 10-12 minute a night player in world has little tangible impact over the course of a 82 game schedule. These are not the players you give term and money to.
The best 4th liner in the world is still a 10-12 minute a night player. Even the best 10-12 minute a night player in world has little tangible impact over the course of a 82 game schedule. These are not the players you give term and money to.
Having an elite bottom-6 centre (and I disagree with the notion that Beagle is elite) isn't very helpful unless you are surrounded by a good team.
Think back to when we added Malholtra—that is the time when you sign a veteran role player to help take a very good roster over the top.
Yup and the only reason they were able to sign Malhotra was because of fastidious cap management. The cap space wouldn't have been there if they didn't get the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Luongo, Hamhuis, ect signed below market value. Contracts like Beagle and Eriksson are going to hamper this team's ability to get that extra piece when it's time to push for contention.
ProstheticConscience
Check dein Limit
It's also the precedent that's set for any internal budget. If 4th liners get $3 mil a season, how does Benning plan to fit in players who are actually good?
megatron
Registered User
- Dec 11, 2016
- 270
- 395
The internal cap is a complete clusterF***.
-Fouth liner making 3 mill, with second liner term
- 3rd pairing D making 4 mill
- backup goalie making 2.5 mill
- arguably the 3rd line center making 4.4 mill
I do like Horvats contract. That was well done. I guess you cant bat 0%
Melvin
21/12/05
The internal cap is a complete clusterF***.
-Fouth liner making 3 mill, with second liner term
- 3rd pairing D making 4 mill
- backup goalie making 2.5 mill
- arguably the 3rd line center making 4.4 mill
I do like Horvats contract. That was well done. I guess you cant bat 0%
Horvat and tanev are on fair deals.
He only overvalues his own garbage acquisitions.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
Just looking at the line up thread I would say that : Lowry (who is the Jets real 4th line center wrote Copp for some reason), Richardsson, Viktor Rask, Dubinsky, Cullen, Boyle, Cizikas, Paquette, Derek Ryan, Shore, Sissons , Melker Karlsson, Ivan Barbashev are players I think are superior to Beagle. Thats 13 guys.
Beagle is in the group with Glendenning, Derek McKenzie, Brodziak, Fehr, Bellemare.
And again, the most frustrating thing for me was that our bottom-6 was actually our biggest strength last year with young, cheap, flexible, improving guys there.
Sutter/Gaunce/Archibald/Motte/Virtanen/Leipsic was an interesting group that performed very well and was composed entirely of guys who could still be here when the team turned a corner under new management in 2-3 years. And cost absolutely zilch.
Instead we're spending an absurd amount to watch old crap trundle around.
4th line isnt really a defined rating. He will likely Play on what is listed as our fourth line, but will also likely be taking a lot of shut down duties away from other players and lines. That does make him valuable, if only to free up Horvat and even Sutter to play more offensive games.
I'd rather over pay a guy like that by a million then certain other players we've had and still have by more.
I'd rather over pay a guy like that by a million then certain other players we've had and still have by more.
Freeing up Sutter to play a more offensive role is a disaster.
Beagle can't play a 3rd line/heavy defensive usage role as well as Sutter and Sutter is a complete and utter dumpster fire when used in offensive situations.
All that does is screw everything up in terms of roster balance and make the team actively worse.
Fire Benning
diaper filled piss baby
Except both Beagle and Sutter are both ill-suited for those respective roles.
Beagle got his teeth kicked in with heavy defensive zone usage in 4th line minutes in Washington. If he gets equally tough zone starts while playing 15+ minutes against tougher opponents it's not going to end well.
Sutter is much better equipped to handle that usage, instead he's going to get played in an offensive role which also isn't likely to end well.
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Melvin
21/12/05
Well Bo Horvat wasn't named among the top 100 players in the NHL by Sportsnet which is reasonable. Does that mean he's below average territory then?
That's a philosophical issue. Mike Gillis signed Ryan Johnson and Hordichuk to what was considered money and term at that time to essentially anchor the 4th line and Gillis spent a lot of time trying to have a 4th line that can take a regular shift in the playoffs. You have been here long enough to know that the importance of the 4th line was discussed here when we were competing for the Cup. Gillis traded a 4th to essentially have Zach Dalpe play on the 4th line. You can say that well these are not players to give money and turn but 4 good lines what are the chances of winning the Cup?
I think you lost all credibility with that list. And some of the players you have ahead of Beagle is in the ridiculous territory.
Viktor Rask as in Victor Rask with 4 years left on a contract that pays him $4M AAV? Dubinsky as in Brandon Dubinsky with 3 years left on a contract that pays him $5.85M AAV? Boyle is very good and if he didn't have his health issues and was a UFA this season he should command a similar contract to what Beagle got. Sissons and Barbashev weren't full-time Cs last season. Derek Ryan wasn't utilized as a 4th line C. He averaged over 2 minutes a game on the PP and 22 seconds on the PK. I don't think Paquette is better and he averaged just over 30 seconds on the PK. I think Beagle is a better 4th line C than Richardson when it comes to defending, PK, and winning faceoffs. Shore as in Devin Shore? Not a 4th line C. I already mentioned that Cullen in his prime was an elite 3rd line C. Again, Cizikas was signed to a 5 year contract at $3.35M AAV where half of the contract covers his RFA years. Fehr is not a C and not better. I like Brodziak. I think like Derek Ryan, he produces offensive when given a more offensive role and not a pure 4th line role.
I think Melker Karlsson sucks. Seriously? And I don't think he has been utilized as a 4th line C. He also can't win faceoffs. Bellemare? No thanks.
I can see why you don't think Beagle is one of the best 4th line C. Bo Horvat is a better 4th line C too.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
I took the players from the lineup thread who their own fans say are their 4th line center.
What is this bullshit that Fear isn't a center, he was Beagle Center when Beagle broke into the league FFS, also I said he is as good as Beagle not better.
Devin Shore has Seguin, Spezza and Faksa ahead of him and Hanzal when hes healthy, so yeah 4th line center.
Richardsson also is not worse at defending than Beagle IMO show me some stats of Beagle´s great defense is it Corsi, PK stats or whatever.
So the only person who loose credibility here is you ,if you had any to loose that is
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