Jason Botterill Discussion 2

[OkimLom]

The icing washed up vets that shouldn't be in the league portion?

Don't be silly, this line up is on Botts. This has nothing to do with Murray or his trades.

Funny enough, one can say that we're back to square one but with more to the roster, as Kane and ROR, two players that got rid of 1st round picks, we received these 1st round picks back for them.

If Botts can't turn around this franchise after drafting these "received" 1st round picks, then that's an utter failure on his part, and that has NOTHING to do with Murray.

 

[Duddy]

Funny enough, one can say that we're back to square one but with more to the roster, as Kane and ROR, two players that got rid of 1st round picks, we received these 1st round picks back for them.

If Botts can't turn around this franchise after drafting these "received" 1st round picks, then that's an utter failure on his part, and that has NOTHING to do with Murray.

The thing is, I doubt he is GM when those picks maybe play in the NHL in 2-3 years.

But I bet the team is happy knowing that help is just years away. While everybody around us gets better.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Funny enough, one can say that we're back to square one but with more to the roster, as Kane and ROR, two players that got rid of 1st round picks, we received these 1st round picks back for them.

If Botts can't turn around this franchise after drafting these "received" 1st round picks, then that's an utter failure on his part, and that has NOTHING to do with Murray.

Are we going to wait 2-4 years for Botts and his picks before we decide about Botts?

 

[sabremike]

The thing is, I doubt he is GM when those picks maybe play in the NHL in 2-3 years.

But I bet the team is happy knowing that help is just years away. While everybody around us gets better.

The plan summed up: we are far behind almost every other team in the sport, so we are going to just stand still for a few years while everyone gets even further ahead and THEN try and catch up.

 

[debaser66]

100% absolutely. If the "grand plan" doesn't count on them, it's pointless to keep the Amerks stocked. The pipeline we have now is OK I guess, but Murray had the chance to draft 3 first round guys in a loaded draft, and he went in another direction. At the time I thought it was stupid, and it looks even dumber by the day.

I never said Botts was a genius, but if you think our pipeline wasn't emptied, then I don't know what to tell you. We had 3 firsts, Zadorov, Compher, Lemieux, Pysyk, etc, all traded away. We could have just been patient, and let these guys find their way to Buffalo. Ultimately, I think this is what Bott's plan is. I'm not saying he's done an awesome job, but I prefer to build my team this way, then Murray's way.

It's not between Botts and Murray.
They both have been incompetent in their own way to harm this team.
One was trigger happy the other one is procrastinatingly blind.
The only thing they have in common is their bad coaching choice and inability to fire them..I wonder if we have another GM/coach tandem fired together next year...

 

[old kummelweck]

Anyone listen to Chris Taylor interview on The Instigators? He seems to think there are at least 10 guys developing on the Amerks that will play in the NHL.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Anyone listen to Chris Taylor interview on The Instigators? He seems to think there are at least 10 guys developing on the Amerks that will play in the NHL.

And? We don't need anymore 4th liners.

 

[sabrebuild]

I don't think they are that far off. The D needs to be much better, the goalies are a disaster, and the coach is clueless. But I feel like there are some real nice pieces in place, and this team should make a jump next year. If not, well, I'm not sure what the hell they are gonna do.

I think this is where you lose me. Cuz I’m with you on all that.

But none of the draft picks, the firsts this year, will do anything about those issues for at least two years. Well, assuming we don’t crash to the bottom 5.

I mean Mitts was a top ten pick, so was Nylander. Neither are good nhlers yet. Most likely we are getting picks between 15-25.

I would hope against hope it goes our way, but there is almost no chance any of those guys do a thing next year.

That’s why I say this can’t be the main plan. It’s just gonna take too long.

I don’t want to bet on all of Mitts, Tage, Dahlin, Pilut and a couple Rochester guys all figuring it out this offseason. That’s a low percentage hope and pray plan.

On the plus side we should have a good chunk of cap free, for next year, even if you sign Skinner, so maybe that’s Botts plan.

 

[brian_griffin]

Anyone listen to Chris Taylor interview on The Instigators? He seems to think there are at least 10 guys developing on the Amerks that will play in the NHL.

As the Coach of the Amerks, there's only two ways to answer the question or profess an opinion:
1. Grossly low-ball the estimate, to motivate the players with fringe NHL potential.
2. Over-estimate the number, to avoid losing the locker room and the players who feel Taylor has no belief in them.

It's akin to being asked who is your favorite child.

 

[OkimLom]

Are we going to wait 2-4 years for Botts and his picks before we decide about Botts?

Well, that thought of waiting seems to be okay with some of those fans that said Murray wasted those 1st round picks by acquiring quality veterans. We probably had to wait 2-4 years before those picks would be on our roster, meanwhile Buffalo would continue to suck because we had no quality vets on the team, while our coach, Bylsma, would grind any hope into the ground and we probably would be in same situation, if not worse, if we had to "lure" free agents here.

 

[sabrebuild]

Team is going to look very, very different next year. I anticipate a huge influx of talent from Roch. VO, Asplund, Guhle and Borgen all making some kind of impact.

That’s a lot of rookies that you expect to come in.

Any idea on who leaves from the defense to open space for both Borgen and Guhle?

 

[Mattilaus]

The icing washed up vets that shouldn't be in the league portion?

Don't be silly, this line up is on Botts. This has nothing to do with Murray or his trades.

You can say with utmost certainty that Murray trading away all those high picks which could have added young players like Boeser and Konecny (sp?) would have done nothing to improve this roster? I agree the current state of this team is on Botts but it's ridiculous to pretend like the team wouldn't be in a much better position had Murray not made those trades. Botts just hasn't fixed the problem.

 

[Chainshot]

Anyone listen to Chris Taylor interview on The Instigators? He seems to think there are at least 10 guys developing on the Amerks that will play in the NHL.

He's had 7 guys who have suited up for the Amerks who have Sabre experience (Smith and Pilut, Tennyson, Hunwick, Nelson, Elie and Wilson). Add in Olofsson, Asplund, Borgen, Nylander, Malone and then guys like Dougherty or Hickey, it's not that odd to think 10 might play in the bigs. How much... well, that's for other questions. But it isn't that hard to see it as possible.

 

[sabrebuild]

You can say with utmost certainty that Murray trading away all those high picks which could have added young players like Boeser and Konecny (sp?) would have done nothing to improve this roster? I agree the current state of this team is on Botts but it's ridiculous to pretend like the team wouldn't be in a much better position had Murray not made those trades. Botts just hasn't fixed the problem.

Walk your way thru the players moved.

We can assume they would pick the right guy with the Lehner pick and go with Boeser or Konechhyy, but they could have just as easily missed or taken a stupid goalie.

Look at the prospects we traded and find one that has become an impact player. Zadorov is about the only one, if he gets there.

I think the only thing you truly say about Murray, that doesn’t get you to could have maybe picks, was that the Kane and Lehner trades rushed the rebuild and took them out of a top 5 pick. You hope that they dodge the busts and pick up Tkachuk or Keller.

Because after that it’s too easy to miss to think they would have definitely done better with their picks.

 

[Chainshot]

To rehash the Murray trades, and what I said at the time of both the O'Reilly and Kane/Bogosian deals, was that he gave up one piece too much in both.

 

[Mattilaus]

Walk your way thru the players moved.

We can assume they would pick the right guy with the Lehner pick and go with Boeser or Konechhyy, but they could have just as easily missed or taken a stupid goalie.

Look at the prospects we traded and find one that has become an impact player. Zadorov is about the only one, if he gets there.

I think the only thing you truly say about Murray, that doesn’t get you to could have maybe picks, was that the Kane and Lehner trades rushed the rebuild and took them out of a top 5 pick. You hope that they dodge the busts and pick up Tkachuk or Keller.

Because after that it’s too easy to miss to think they would have definitely done better with their picks.

Okay so lets harken back to the very beginning of my post. You can say WITH THE UTMOST CERTAINTY the team would be where they are now even had Murray not flushed a bunch of picks down the toilet? I very specifically said it COULD have resulted in good players, not that it would have.

I am not making the assumption. I am acknowledging the possibility that Murray has some of the blame. You and the poster I quoted are the ones making the assumption that even if we had the picks we would have blown them.

 

[sabrebuild]

Okay so lets harken back to the very beginning of my post. You can say WITH THE UTMOST CERTAINTY the team would be where they are now even had Murray not flushed a bunch of picks down the toilet? I very specifically said it COULD have resulted in good players, not that it would have.

I am not making the assumption. I am acknowledging the possibility that Murray has some of the blame. You and the poster I quoted are the ones making the assumption that even if we had the picks we would have blown them.

Oh my bad, I misread your post for having a point. It never occurred to me that you were just acknowledging that the universe has endless paths. Whoops.

 

[Mattilaus]

Oh my bad, I misread your post for having a point. It never occurred to me that you were just acknowledging that the universe has endless paths. Whoops.

Yea, okay way to have a genuine conversation. Maybe look at the post I was replying to before coming in and pretending you know what you are talking about. My point is very clear if you had cared to look. f*** this board is toxic lately. So many disingenuous posters. All it is is attack attack attack the person who isn't doom and gloom 1000% of the time.

 

[sabrebuild]

Yea, okay way to have a genuine conversation. Maybe look at the post I was replying to before coming in and pretending you know what you are talking about. My point is very clear if you had cared to look. **** this board is toxic lately. So many disingenuous posters. All it is is attack attack attack the person who isn't doom and gloom 1000% of the time.

Disingenuous? In all seriousness I just missed that as being your good faith argument. It literally never occurred to me that anyone did/would/could make an argument to say that it was impossible or could not have happened that those picks turn into great players.

I mean that’s like an absurdly obvious point that no one disagrees with. I just missed it. Sorry that you feel so persecuted. It certainly wasn’t because “you aren’t doom and gloom” enough. Tho in this context I’m not sure what is doom and gloom about having a differing opinion about a past event?

 

[Mattilaus]

Disingenuous? In all seriousness I just missed that as being your good faith argument. It literally never occurred to me that anyone did/would/could make an argument to say that it was impossible or could not have happened that those picks turn into great players.

I mean that’s like an absurdly obvious point that no one disagrees with. I just missed it. Sorry that you feel so persecuted. It certainly wasn’t because “you aren’t doom and gloom” enough. Tho in this context I’m not sure what is doom and gloom about having a differing opinion about a past event?

Really? Nobody disagrees? You mean like the person I responded to? The person who said the state of the team is entirely on Botts and Murray holds no fault whatsoever? Nobody disagrees that there is potential the state of the team is partially on Murray due to potential of the picks he had? Really?

My entire point was to state that is likely not the case and Murray deserves some of the blame, but no no no, I don't have a point right?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

JT Compher would likely see a lot of time as a Sabre.

 

[kp2575]

How much of that can actually be blamed on Regier, though? Regier didn't slash the scouting budget so that the overwhelming majority of amateur scouting was done by video. Ownership and budget were easily the #1 reason the Sabres were bleeding talent post- co-captain era.

I agree that it made his job harder and I can see that argument that it negatively impacted their success in the later rounds. But the run of poor first round picks was brutal, you could almost draw names from the central scouting list and do better than he did.

 

[Aladyyn]

That’s a lot of rookies that you expect to come in.

Any idea on who leaves from the defense to open space for both Borgen and Guhle?

Trade Ristolainen, fire Scandella into the sun.

Done.

 

[Duddy]

You can say with utmost certainty that Murray trading away all those high picks which could have added young players like Boeser and Konecny (sp?) would have done nothing to improve this roster? I agree the current state of this team is on Botts but it's ridiculous to pretend like the team wouldn't be in a much better position had Murray not made those trades. Botts just hasn't fixed the problem.

Nobody is saying that, but looking at out first round drafting in the last decade +, isn't giving me hope that they would've picked the right guys.

I'm talking about icing trash like Pominville, Scandella, Sobotka and till he bailed Berglund. He got all of them, he decided that he wants them on the team. There were better options, better FAs and probably better guys down in Rochester.

The picks are gone, living in the past is stupid. Botts is responsible for the roster and he chose to build it like that.

 

[Mattilaus]

Nobody is saying that, but looking at out first round drafting in the last decade +, isn't giving me hope that they would've picked the right guys.

I'm talking about icing trash like Pominville, Scandella, Sobotka and till he bailed Berglund. He got all of them, he decided that he wants them on the team. There were better options, better FAs and probably better guys down in Rochester.

The picks are gone, living in the past is stupid. Botts is responsible for the roster and he chose to build it like that.

For the most part I agree, but I don't think you can include Scandella here. Yes he is straight garbage now but when we got him we all agreed it was a good move and he was one of the better D men last year. Nobody could have foreseen the cliff he fell off this year. It was a good pick up that went sour due to something Botts has no control over.