Player Discussion Jared Spurgeon

[57special]

Spurgeon is noticeably stronger and smarter than he was two years ago, when he used to get owned in the corners. I don't worry about him so much anymore. And if you think of where Scandella is compared to two years ago...

Wild are in very good shape on the Blue line. I'm higher than most on Dumba. I do see his mistakes, but Some seem to ignore his skating stride, shot, and offensive abilities. It's not normal to see those on a third pairing Dman. Call me crazy, but I see a potential Guy Lapointe type player if he gets a bit stronger (likely) and adjusts to the speed of the NHL game(hopefully).

The other bonus to all this positive development from our Dmen is that Suter should be able to get some more rest. If we could keep him under 25 min./ game then I think we would see an uptick in his quality of his play. Are you listening, Yeo?

 

[El Nino 22]

I don't think I'd be surprised if he ended up with ~40 points.

I actually thought at the beginning of the season that he would out score Suter. So 45+

 

[Marlowe Syn]

I haven't been impressed with Spurgeon this year so much as I have Scandella. Spurgeon has been pretty consistent the last couple years but Scandella has looked his best yet this season.

That's saying something, as both players are exceeding even the most optimistic fans expectations. I'm impressed with both players, but I think moreso with Spurgeon. Mainly because of his defying the laws of hockey physics. With the Spurgella pairing, I'm wondering if Dumba has much chance to become a top 4 Dman here. Of no fault of his own. Although I'm not ready to trade Dumba, as Spurgeon's play may just out price him out of Minnesota in a couple of years.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Careful now, guys. Praise one of our players a teensy bit more than what they deserve and they're going to go down with an injury over an extended period of time. Everyone, knock on wood.

Given Spurgeon's size and the grind of an 82 game schedule and then factor in that the last three years he's had some injury problems, it doesn't take a genius to realize that Spurgeon has shown a knack on getting injured. I don't understand why people take injury prone as bad. Some players are just more suspect to injuries than others depending on a lot of factors. It just means, and Wild have done so, that you have to have some good depth.

 

[Nharris31]

Given Spurgeon's size and the grind of an 82 game schedule and then factor in that the last three years he's had some injury problems, it doesn't take a genius to realize that Spurgeon has shown a knack on getting injured. I don't understand why people take injury prone as bad. Some players are just more suspect to injuries than others depending on a lot of factors. It just means, and Wild have done so, that you have to have some good depth.

He got injured blocking a shot doing his job.

 

[thestonedkoala]

He got injured blocking a shot doing his job.

He had an injury when he was playing in Sweden (or wherever), he had a concussion before that (I will admit that it was a dirty hit and one that he has avoided since but it's still a concussion). As well, blocking a shot and breaking a bone could be more than that; bone density and structure, positioning, previous injuries - it's never that simple.

 

[Dee Oh Cee]

Yeah, can't make it up sometimes.

 

[Puhis]

He had an injury when he was playing in Sweden (or wherever), he had a concussion before that (I will admit that it was a dirty hit and one that he has avoided since but it's still a concussion). As well, blocking a shot and breaking a bone could be more than that; bone density and structure, positioning, previous injuries - it's never that simple.

Switzerland.

 

[plock]

Alright, I'll clarify...I think Spurgeon and Brodin are 2nd pairing guys that can play 1st pairing if needed or if paired with the right defenseman.

I think Scandella, like I said, purely based on his play alone this year and implying that he will continue to at least match this production if not continue to grow from here with all of the skills that Scandella has shown this seasosn...basically, assuming this is Scandella's floor--what he is now--I think Scandella is very close to becoming an anchor second line guy or lower tier 1st line pairing guy if he isn't already--based on the kind of game he has shown in these first 25ish games.


I think Brodin is well on his way to becoming a 1st line guy in this league. He's really close to making that jump...just needs experience and consistency and most importantly he needs to stay healthy.

I have zero doubt that Brodin will be a #1 Dman in the future.I love Spurgeon but I think on most of the top teams in the league he would be on the 3rd pairing and powerplay.Scandella is off to a great start this year,but he has been developing for quite a while now.I think the Wild had hoped he would have been playing at this level a year or two ago but better late than never.He will be 25 years old this season and he has played over 170 NHL games already so I think he is pretty close to his development ceiling.

 

[tomgilbertfan]

I have zero doubt that Brodin will be a #1 Dman in the future.I love Spurgeon but I think on most of the top teams in the league he would be on the 3rd pairing and powerplay.Scandella is off to a great start this year,but he has been developing for quite a while now.I think the Wild had hoped he would have been playing at this level a year or two ago but better late than never.He will be 25 years old this season and he has played over 170 NHL games already so I think he is pretty close to his development ceiling.

Oh come on. Spurgeon isn't MAB out there, he's an amazingly smart defensemen that is at worst a #4 defenseman. No way is he a 3rd pairing guy, just because he's small doesn't mean he's a PP specialist. His play in his own zone is just as good as his play in the offensive zone.

Also Scandella was great 2 playoffs ago, great last year, fantastic in these last playoffs and has continued that play. The kid is only 24, defensemen generally take longer to develop then forwads. If this is his 'ceiling' it is a very high ceiling.

 

[57special]

No way Spurgeon is a third pairing D.

Whether you want to call him a poor man's #2, a solid #3, or a terrific #4... After a while,it's just semantics.

Bottom line, he's a very good skater and puck handler, has some offensive game, and has improved his strength so he is now solid defensively, even along the boards( which was a weakness in the past). On top of that, he has a high hockey IQ and ice vision.

Brodin is doing just fine. Still lacks strength that I believe will come( he is still very young) as he matures. I would like to see him thrust into more demanding roles, I.e. as the lead man on a D pairing, and on the PP. I do have doubts that he will develop into a true #1. He has the tools, but I've yet to see the offensive Production that is part and parcel of a true #1's game.

I would prefer to have my second best Dman on the " second" pairing, not paired with Suter. Having said that, Spurgeon and Scandella seemed to be a perfect pair, so Brodin will probably be playing with Dad for the foreseeable future.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I have zero doubt that Brodin will be a #1 Dman in the future.I love Spurgeon but I think on most of the top teams in the league he would be on the 3rd pairing and powerplay.Scandella is off to a great start this year,but he has been developing for quite a while now.I think the Wild had hoped he would have been playing at this level a year or two ago but better late than never.He will be 25 years old this season and he has played over 170 NHL games already so I think he is pretty close to his development ceiling.

This is ludicrous. There is not a team in the league Spurgeon wouldn't play top 4 minutes for. I mean for Christ sakes, The Wild have one of the best top 4's in the league and he plays 2nd/3rd D minutes for us.

Do you think we would perform this well at shoot suppression and shot generation if we were giving 23 minutes a night to a 3rd pairing Defender?

 

[Puhis]

.I love Spurgeon but I think on most of the top teams in the league he would be on the 3rd pairing and powerplay.

Sure, in a same way that on most teams Mikko Koivu would be a 3rd line shutdown C.

 

[BigT2002]

No way Spurgeon is a third pairing D.

Whether you want to call him a poor man's #2, a solid #3, or a terrific #4... After a while,it's just semantics.

Bottom line, he's a very good skater and puck handler, has some offensive game, and has improved his strength so he is now solid defensively, even along the boards( which was a weakness in the past). On top of that, he has a high hockey IQ and ice vision.

Brodin is doing just fine. Still lacks strength that I believe will come( he is still very young) as he matures. I would like to see him thrust into more demanding roles, I.e. as the lead man on a D pairing, and on the PP. I do have doubts that he will develop into a true #1. He has the tools, but I've yet to see the offensive Production that is part and parcel of a true #1's game.

I would prefer to have my second best Dman on the " second" pairing, not paired with Suter. Having said that, Spurgeon and Scandella seemed to be a perfect pair, so Brodin will probably be playing with Dad for the foreseeable future.

Pretty much what he said. He has room to improve, but that should be a given anyways. He's only 21 years old!

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

I have zero doubt that Brodin will be a #1 Dman in the future.I love Spurgeon but I think on most of the top teams in the league he would be on the 3rd pairing and powerplay.Scandella is off to a great start this year,but he has been developing for quite a while now.I think the Wild had hoped he would have been playing at this level a year or two ago but better late than never.He will be 25 years old this season and he has played over 170 NHL games already so I think he is pretty close to his development ceiling.

Just flat out awful takes....

 

[plock]

This is ludicrous. There is not a team in the league Spurgeon wouldn't play top 4 minutes for. I mean for Christ sakes, The Wild have one of the best top 4's in the league and he plays 2nd/3rd D minutes for us.

Do you think we would perform this well at shoot suppression and shot generation if we were giving 23 minutes a night to a 3rd pairing Defender?

I said most of the top teams have a look...

Anaheim-Sami Vatanen,Cam Fowler,Francois Beauchemin,Hampus Lindholm
Boston-Zdeno Chara,Dennis Seidenberg,Torey Krug,Dougie Hamilton
Chicago-Niklas Hjalmarsson,Duncan Keith,Brent Seabrook,Johnny Oduya
Pittsburgh-Christian Ehrhoff,Olli Maatta,Kris Letang,Rob Scuderi
NY Rangers-Ryan McDonagh,Dan Girardi,Marc Staal,Dan Boyle
Nashville-Shea Weber,Roman Josi,Mattias Ekholm,Ryan Ellis
St. Louis-Alex Pietrangelo,Kevin Shattenkirk,Jay Bouwmeester,Barret Jackman
Detroit-Jonathan Ericsson,Niklas Kronwall,Dan DeKeyser,Kyle Quincey
Montreal-P.K. Subban,Andrei Markov,Alexei Emelin,Sergei Gonchar
Calgary-Mark Giordano,T.J. Brodie,Dennis Wideman,Kris Russell
Vancouver-Alexander Edler,Chris Tanev,Luca Sbisa,Kevin Bieksa
Tampa-Victor Hedman,Anton Stralman,Jason Garrison,Andrej Sustr
L.A.-Drew Doughty,Jake Muzzin,Matt Greene,Slava Voynov

Perhaps Spurgeon would be the #4 Dman on some of these teams,as people have said he keeps getting better.There certainly are many teams where he would be top 4 (Dallas,Colorado,Philly and more).

 

[ThatGuy22]

I said most of the top teams have a look...

Anaheim-Sami Vatanen,Cam Fowler,Francois Beauchemin,Hampus Lindholm
Boston-Zdeno Chara,Dennis Seidenberg,Torey Krug,Dougie Hamilton
Chicago-Niklas Hjalmarsson,Duncan Keith,Brent Seabrook,Johnny Oduya
Pittsburgh-Christian Ehrhoff,Olli Maatta,Kris Letang,Rob Scuderi
NY Rangers-Ryan McDonagh,Dan Girardi,Marc Staal,Dan Boyle
Nashville-Shea Weber,Roman Josi,Mattias Ekholm,Ryan Ellis
St. Louis-Alex Pietrangelo,Kevin Shattenkirk,Jay Bouwmeester,Barret Jackman
Detroit-Jonathan Ericsson,Niklas Kronwall,Dan DeKeyser,Kyle Quincey
Montreal-P.K. Subban,Andrei Markov,Alexei Emelin,Sergei Gonchar
Calgary-Mark Giordano,T.J. Brodie,Dennis Wideman,Kris Russell
Vancouver-Alexander Edler,Chris Tanev,Luca Sbisa,Kevin Bieksa
Tampa-Victor Hedman,Anton Stralman,Jason Garrison,Andrej Sustr
L.A.-Drew Doughty,Jake Muzzin,Matt Greene,Slava Voynov

Perhaps Spurgeon would be the #4 Dman on some of these teams,as people have said he keeps getting better.There certainly are many teams where he would be top 4 (Dallas,Colorado,Philly and more).

The only team you listed that doesn't have a player Spurgeon is better than at this moment is Chicago, and that's even debatable with Oduya. You either under-rate Spurgeon, over-rate those top 4s. Likely both.

Spurgeon is better than all bolded.

 

[Nordic*]

The only team you listed that doesn't have a player Spurgeon is better than at this moment is Chicago, and that's even debatable with Oduya. You either under-rate Spurgeon, over-rate those top 4s. Likely both.

Spurgeon is better than all bolded.

Just so you know, Lindholm has been the best defenceman in Anaheim this season.

 

[J22*]

Never been a Spurgeon fan, but to say that he's a 3rd pairing guy is sad. Spurgeon and Scandella have been outstanding together this season.

I don't think Spurgeon is a great option with Suter on the top pair, as evidenced by his struggles when Brodin was sick. But I couldn't be happier with him and Marco playing 20+ a night on the 2nd pair.

 

[rynryn]

he's definitely top 4 quality. some coaches like certain pairs together though so you couldn't just add him to a team with a good top 4 already and say yup, he's playin.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Warning: Advanced Stats talk ahead.

So some of the guys at InLouWeTrust, a devils blog, have under-taken a "passing project" over the past year or two, were they attempt to drill down to who is responsible for positive events in a hockey game. Namely Shot Attempts, Scoring Chances and zone entries. They call them contributions, ie Corsi Contributions, Scoring Chances Contributions, etc. and are basically "assists" on shot attempts.

As this is manual work, ie they watch games and manually assign "assists" to every event, they don't have full season data on every player, so it is limited at the moment. They have every game for Devils, New York Rangers, New York Islanders, Florida Panthers, Washington Capitals, and Chicago Blackhawks, so that gives 15ish games for the Wild.

They then basically tie it into who has the greatest impact on their teams percentage of positive events, and ranked every player tracked in the NHL on who had the greatest impact.

Where it gets interesting, is when you look at Spurgeon's chart(I'd post the graphic if I could figure out how). Based on their limited sample size, Spurgeon is absolutely elite in terms of NHL defensemen in how he contributes to our possession game. Ranking in the top 5 in 5 out of the 8 categories, top 20 in two more, and top 40 in the 8th.

It may have just been a hot streak for Spurgeon, or a few good games. But it pretty well matches up with my eye test, and other more traditionally tracked advanced stats and that heavily indicate that Spurgeon is absolutely crucial to our offense. Its not a coincidence over the past 3 years, when he's on the ice the Wild have scored 56.5% of the goals good for 15th in the league amongst defenders(and including two very mediocre Wild offenses).

Spurgeon is crucial to this team, it's going to be a mistake if we trade him. Either this offseason or next.

Here is another post where they explain the work as well.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Agree. If Pominville jumps back up to his 25 goal normal self, it'll get a little complicated, but if not, the choice between he and Spurgeon isn't really a choice at all.

Assuming Dumba and Reilly become what we hope they can become, a D corps of Suter/Brodin/Spurgeon/Scandella/Dumba/Reilly might be the best in the league, in regards to skating/puck moving/etc...

 

[nickschultzfan]

Warning: Advanced Stats talk ahead.

So some of the guys at InLouWeTrust, a devils blog, have under-taken a "passing project" over the past year or two, were they attempt to drill down to who is responsible for positive events in a hockey game. Namely Shot Attempts, Scoring Chances and zone entries. They call them contributions, ie Corsi Contributions, Scoring Chances Contributions, etc. and are basically "assists" on shot attempts.

As this is manual work, ie they watch games and manually assign "assists" to every event, they don't have full season data on every player, so it is limited at the moment. They have every game for Devils, New York Rangers, New York Islanders, Florida Panthers, Washington Capitals, and Chicago Blackhawks, so that gives 15ish games for the Wild.

They then basically tie it into who has the greatest impact on their teams percentage of positive events, and ranked every player tracked in the NHL on who had the greatest impact.

Where it gets interesting, is when you look at Spurgeon's chart(I'd post the graphic if I could figure out how). Based on their limited sample size, Spurgeon is absolutely elite in terms of NHL defensemen in how he contributes to our possession game. Ranking in the top 5 in 5 out of the 8 categories, top 20 in two more, and top 40 in the 8th.

It may have just been a hot streak for Spurgeon, or a few good games. But it pretty well matches up with my eye test, and other more traditionally tracked advanced stats and that heavily indicate that Spurgeon is absolutely crucial to our offense. Its not a coincidence over the past 3 years, when he's on the ice the Wild have scored 56.5% of the goals good for 15th in the league amongst defenders(and including two very mediocre Wild offenses).

Spurgeon is crucial to this team, it's going to be a mistake if we trade him. Either this offseason or next.

Here is another post where they explain the work as well.

I don't doubt it. He is an elite puck mover.

One of the reasons why I am ok with trading Dumba for a top-6 center. Even if Dumba reaches 100% of his potential, Spurgeon will still be the better and more efficient puck mover.

 

[Granlund 64]

Agree. If Pominville jumps back up to his 25 goal normal self, it'll get a little complicated, but if not, the choice between he and Spurgeon isn't really a choice at all.

Assuming Dumba and Reilly become what we hope they can become, a D corps of Suter/Brodin/Spurgeon/Scandella/Dumba/Reilly might be the best in the league, in regards to skating/puck moving/etc...

And also a D-core capable of spreading minutes more evenly.

 

[DANOZ28]

i like spur , hes valuable no doubt! however we are up against the cap this year , noway we can fit spur , zucker & dumba under the cap next year when all 3 will be due huge raises.