Proposal: James van Riemsdyk

[Sojourn]

He gathered tuns of criticism while he was scoring 30 goals per season is where I took my biggest issue.... I wasn't involved with trying to sell this board on Bobby's short comings. If his goals dropped significantly here, ya, I would of got it wrong.

Again, I'm happy the board would like to bring in a goal scorer, even if he's potentially one dimensional like Bobby...

BTW
I'm a big fan boy of the majority of our teams today, and in the past..............................


I do not think you can say the same, but flame away

People criticized him because he deserved it. It's the same reason people criticize Getzlaf: He deserves it.

Believe it or not, people can be fans of the team, and the players, while having issues with aspects of their game.

 

[DaDucks*]

People criticized him because he deserved it. It's the same reason people criticize Getzlaf: He deserves it.

Believe it or not, people can be fans of the team, and the players, while having issues with aspects of their game.

Which is fine...But people wanted to ship him out without compensating for those goals we lost with Bobby, and we've had a void on the top LW ever since. Thats obviously on management, yet we have Bobby haters wanting to replace Bobby with another Bobby. Which makes me happy.



and laugh.

 

[Sojourn]

Which is fine...But people wanted to ship him out without compensating for those goals we lost with Bobby, and we've had a void on the top LW ever since. Thats obviously on management, yet we have Bobby haters wanting to replace Bobby with another Bobby. Which makes me happy.



and laugh.

No, we have people wanting to add a goal scorer here in JVR.

And it certainly isn't to replace Bobby. This team has been better since Bobby left. I know that doesn't really fit the whole revision of history you've got going on here.

 

[DaDucks*]

No, we have people wanting to add a goal scorer here in JVR.

And it certainly isn't to replace Bobby. This team has been better since Bobby left. I know that doesn't really fit the whole revision of history you've got going on here.

So you believe JVR isn't one dimensional, fair enough, you might be in that minority you like to avoid though


can we watch the kings now?

 

[Exit Dose]

If Selanne scored at the rate that Ryan did, he would have received a lot of the same criticisms. That's really the big difference there. Ryan gave the likes of Static time to stew. Teemu rarely did.

And it certainly isn't to replace Bobby. This team has been better since Bobby left. I know that doesn't really fit the whole revision of history you've got going on here.

That logic doesn't follow. The team can get better and still be missing what was given up in the trade.

 

[Sojourn]

So you believe JVR isn't one dimensional, fair enough, you might be in that minority you like to avoid though


can we watch the kings now?

No, I think JVR is one dimensional. But as Static pointed out, Selanne was one dimensional too. That didn't make him worthless when he wasn't scoring. If JVR can score some goals, and not be worthless when he isn't scoring, I'll be happy with that.

I would have been happy if Bobby Ryan could have accomplished that too, but sadly he couldn't. That's on him, and it doesn't mean every one dimensional player will follow that pattern.

 

[Sojourn]

That logic doesn't follow. The team can get better and still be missing what was given up in the trade.

It doesn't follow if you're looking strictly at Ryan, and replacing him one for one.

I'm looking at the team as a whole. We also lost Palmieri and Beleskey. And Perreault. And Bonino. Bobby Ryan isn't the only forward who can score that we've seen depart. Why should he be the only player we're looking to replace? I think that logic tracks even less.

We've also added players too, but I think when you try to balance it all out, we're seeing more goals depart than we are bringing in.

 

[Static]

If Selanne scored at the rate that Ryan did, he would have received a lot of the same criticisms. That's really the big difference there. Ryan gave the likes of Static time to stew. Teemu rarely did.


That logic doesn't follow. The team can get better and still be missing what was given up in the trade.

See, I completely disagree. Teemu rarely had games where he didn't have chances, his one skill was always online.

Bobby had stretches of games when he wasnt even heard from. His skill came in the form of a secret government order to a submarine by the end.

He wasn't always that way, but that's the way his career trended from year two on.

 

[Sojourn]

See, I completely disagree. Teemu rarely had games where he didn't have chances, his one skill was always online.

Bobby had stretches of games when he wasnt even heard from. His skill came in the form of a secret government order to a submarine by the end.

He wasn't always that way, but that's the way his career trended from year two on.

I always thought Bobby played with something to prove as a rookie. There was still some of that in his second year, but after that I just think he played with complacency.

Selanne always had that hunger in his game.

 

[DaDucks*]

So if Jvr came in and put up 25-30 goals but was lousy outside of that, you guys would want him out?

 

[Emerald Duck]

So if Jvr came in and put up 25-30 goals but was lousy outside of that, you guys would want him out?

Are we talking about clutch goals to tie or win an important game, or goals that break up a shutout long after the game has already been lost ?

 

[Sojourn]

What Emerald said. I think its a little more complicated than just numbers.

 

[DaDucks*]

Are we talking about clutch goals to tie or win an important game, or goals that break up a shutout long after the game has already been lost ?

Haha

Much like other players that score goals, there is going to be a mix of everything...

 

[DaDucks*]

What Emerald said. I think its a little more complicated than just numbers.

Interesting take... Given our current climate this year and last, I thought that it wouldn't matter.

 

[Exit Dose]

It doesn't follow if you're looking strictly at Ryan, and replacing him one for one.

I'm looking at the team as a whole. We also lost Palmieri and Beleskey. And Perreault. And Bonino. Bobby Ryan isn't the only forward who can score that we've seen depart. Why should he be the only player we're looking to replace? I think that logic tracks even less.

We've also added players too, but I think when you try to balance it all out, we're seeing more goals depart than we are bringing in.

We haven't added anyone that produced with consistency that Ryan did during his 30-goal years or Selanne in his prime. It's absolutely something that's missing on the power play. It has been since both of those players went on the decline.

Just because the team as a whole improved does not mean that we wouldn't be a better team with someone like that on our roster.

 

[Exit Dose]

See, I completely disagree. Teemu rarely had games where he didn't have chances, his one skill was always online.

Bobby had stretches of games when he wasnt even heard from. His skill came in the form of a secret government order to a submarine by the end.

He wasn't always that way, but that's the way his career trended from year two on.

First off, just so we're clear, I'm not arguing that I want Ryan back. My argument would be that our team is missing a goal-scoring spark plug, and I see this the most on the power play.

As for your post, yes that is what a more consistent version of a one-dimensional forward provides. Teemu didn't always have chances, nor was he always creating them. He had spells where he was stuck in the doldrums and couldn't get anything going. Those were shorter lived in his case, not counting the post-Mighty-Ducks years in San Jose and Colorado, which is why he's bound for the hall of fame. In that regard, I suspect that you're looking at Teemu through rose-tinted glasses. Ryan didn't need to maintain Teemu's level of consistency to be valuable, but he needed to maintain the level he had in those early years to make keeping him around worthwhile.

 

[AngelDuck]

I don't like JVR as a player. I'd rather see this team get a Simmonds or Marchand

 

[Sojourn]

We haven't added anyone that produced with consistency that Ryan did during his 30-goal years or Selanne in his prime. It's absolutely something that's missing on the power play. It has been since both of those players went on the decline.

Just because the team as a whole improved does not mean that we wouldn't be a better team with someone like that on our roster.

You could say that about a lot of players. We could use a #1. Hell, we could use two of them. But that doesn't mean we'd be trying to replace Niedermayer. Or Pronger. We could use another Giguere. But finding a big game goalie wouldn't be replacing Giguere. We aren't -trying- to replace anyone. We're trying to improve the team. Adding someone like JVR wouldn't be to replace Bobby, and there is no guarantee our PP improves by adding him. I suspect our PP woes would continue, because we'll still have Getzlaf bogging it down. Remember when we needed to add Vatanen? When he was the missing piece? Still having PP issues...

Yes, in some ways we missed Bobby. In other ways, we didn't. Overall, I'd say it was a gain. That doesn't mean we couldn't use another goal scorer, but that need isn't because we lost Bobby. It's because we lost Bobby, and Selanne, and Perreault, and Bonino, and Beleskey... See where I'm going with this?

The point I was trying to make is the need to add a goal scorer goes beyond Bobby Ryan. Adding someone like JVR, or any goal scorer, isn't to fill a hole vacated by Bobby Ryan. It's to add more goals to a team that seems to be consistently losing them in the off season. It is to give the team another finisher.

 

[Opak]

IMO we don't want to pay the price it would take to get one of JVR, Marchand or Simmonds. They're just too "expensive" for us right now. I also don't like JVR as a player and Simmonds is a RW, we'd want to have a LW.

At the TDL, I'd take a look at Loui Eriksson. He's an UFA and he'd be a rental, so the price wouldn't be nearly as high. I'd offer Sekac+ for Loui, don't know what the + would be.

Maroon - Getz - Perry
Eriksson - Kesler - Silf
Hagelin - Rakell - Stewart
Cogs - Thompson - Horcoff
Santorelli, Wagner

 

[Exit Dose]

You could say that about a lot of players. We could use a #1. Hell, we could use two of them. But that doesn't mean we'd be trying to replace Niedermayer. Or Pronger. We could use another Giguere. But finding a big game goalie wouldn't be replacing Giguere. We aren't -trying- to replace anyone. We're trying to improve the team. Adding someone like JVR wouldn't be to replace Bobby, and there is no guarantee our PP improves by adding him. I suspect our PP woes would continue, because we'll still have Getzlaf bogging it down. Remember when we needed to add Vatanen? When he was the missing piece? Still having PP issues...

Yes, in some ways we missed Bobby. In other ways, we didn't. Overall, I'd say it was a gain. That doesn't mean we couldn't use another goal scorer, but that need isn't because we lost Bobby. It's because we lost Bobby, and Selanne, and Perreault, and Bonino, and Beleskey... See where I'm going with this?

The point I was trying to make is the need to add a goal scorer goes beyond Bobby Ryan. Adding someone like JVR, or any goal scorer, isn't to fill a hole vacated by Bobby Ryan. It's to add more goals to a team that seems to be consistently losing them in the off season. It is to give the team another finisher.

Yes, I remember that. Do you think that our power play improved by adding that player? That our power play still hangs on Getzlaf is part of the problem. It doesn't have to be Selanne or Ryan, but we absolutely need someone that can provide goals and to a lesser extent make plays on that power play unit. What you say in that first paragraph ignores that we're currently having to break up our best forward tandem because we don't have anyone else that can, a problem that goes deeper than 'wouldn't it be nice if Lindholm could also play with Pronger's edge'. We have two centers and one winger left to drive our offense. Ritchie might provide some relief for that when he's ready, but it's been a major issue since Bobby and Teemu started fading. We have no shortage of players that can provide a guiding light in the defensive end, but we're repeatedly coming up short with leaders on offense.

The answer we've had since Ryan and Teemu departed was depth scoring. That's how we're in the place that we are now. It sure doesn't appear to be working out. Just making up a few goals here and there doesn't address the lack of drivers on the team. We have the best supporting cast in the league, already. We're running low on players for them to support. That's what a player in the vein of Selanne or a Ryan provide.

JVR doesn't have to be the answer, but he is an answer to that effect. I'm not talking about Ryan specifically, but what Ryan represented - or failed to represent in that final year.

I don't think that we're on entirely different pages, but I feel that some here mistake criticisms of what happened as a result of the Ryan trade for a condemnation of the trade itself. Ryan was failing at the task asked of him at the time of the trade, and seeing how he's performed in Ottawa, still would. In his absence we haven't anyone step up or added that was also up to the task, that is maybe the one thing that still makes this team feel incomplete.

 

[Theridion]

Yes, I remember that. Do you think that our power play improved by adding that player? That our power play still hangs on Getzlaf is part of the problem. It doesn't have to be Selanne or Ryan, but we absolutely need someone that can provide goals and to a lesser extent make plays on that power play unit. What you say in that first paragraph ignores that we're currently having to break up our best forward tandem because we don't have anyone else that can, a problem that goes deeper than 'wouldn't it be nice if Lindholm could also play with Pronger's edge'. We have two centers and one winger left to drive our offense. Ritchie might provide some relief for that when he's ready, but it's been a major issue since Bobby and Teemu started fading. We have no shortage of players that can provide a guiding light in the defensive end, but we're repeatedly coming up short with leaders on offense.

The answer we've had since Ryan and Teemu departed was depth scoring. That's how we're in the place that we are now. It sure doesn't appear to be working out. Just making up a few goals here and there doesn't address the lack of drivers on the team. We have the best supporting cast in the league, already. We're running low on players for them to support. That's what a player in the vein of Selanne or a Ryan provide.

JVR doesn't have to be the answer, but he is an answer to that effect. I'm not talking about Ryan specifically, but what Ryan represented - or failed to represent in that final year.

I don't think that we're on entirely different pages, but I feel that some here mistake criticisms of what happened as a result of the Ryan trade for a condemnation of the trade itself. Ryan was failing at the task asked of him at the time of the trade, and seeing how he's performed in Ottawa, still would. In his absence we haven't anyone step up or added that was also up to the task, that is maybe the one thing that still makes this team feel incomplete.

No depth scoring makes this team hugely incomplete.

 

[Duck Off]

Interesting take... Given our current climate this year and last, I thought that it wouldn't matter.

It definitely matters. I defended Ryan for years, and was definitely one of his biggest supporters. "he doesn't get enough PP time", "we don't have a center for him", etc... It finally hit me his last year here that this guy just isn't worth it. It says something when your 2nd line performs better with out, despite the fact that you're suppose to be clearly the best player on that line.

Ryan's problem isn't that he's 1 dimensional, it's that he's inconsistent. If we have a guy that all he's good at is goal scoring, that's fine, but he better be consistently getting good chances. Ryan wasn't that.

Yes, numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt as well. How many times would Ryan score when it was too late or didn't matter? A Lot. Again, I was one of his biggest fans too.

JVR's cap hit is only 4.25, so if they take Stoner back, I'm all for it. We need finishers/goal scorers. JVR is one.

I'd do Stoner + Sekac +, but the + would be the deciding factor on whether it's worth it or not.

 

[DaDucks*]

It definitely matters. I defended Ryan for years, and was definitely one of his biggest supporters. "he doesn't get enough PP time", "we don't have a center for him", etc... It finally hit me his last year here that this guy just isn't worth it. It says something when your 2nd line performs better with out, despite the fact that you're suppose to be clearly the best player on that line.

Ryan's problem isn't that he's 1 dimensional, it's that he's inconsistent. If we have a guy that all he's good at is goal scoring, that's fine, but he better be consistently getting good chances. Ryan wasn't that.

Yes, numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt as well. How many times would Ryan score when it was too late or didn't matter? A Lot. Again, I was one of his biggest fans too.

JVR's cap hit is only 4.25, so if they take Stoner back, I'm all for it. We need finishers/goal scorers. JVR is one.

I'd do Stoner + Sekac +, but the + would be the deciding factor on whether it's worth it or not.

Considering our 1 goal wins and tight games now, Bobby's goals (or somebody else) would matter a great deal, just like everyone else's. If you're trying to tell me that's primarily the only way he's (or someone other 30 goal scorer) capable of scoring for us, well, I think that's absolute trash, given how short we are on people capable getting off accurate, quick effective shots.....

 

[AngelDuck]

The reason Bobby had to go was because of his declining play, his umpcoming ridiculous contract that he was due (and got in Ottawa), and his inability to find chemistry with other players on the team. I don't like JVR at all because I think he's not that good away from Kessel. I'm more interested in a winger that can help drive the play on the 2nd line AND score goals (marchand for example), not just someone who can shoot and score

 

[Duck Off]

Considering our 1 goal wins and tight games now, Bobby's goals (or somebody else) would matter a great deal, just like everyone else's. If you're trying to tell me that's primarily the only way he's (or someone other 30 goal scorer) capable of scoring for us, well, I think that's absolute trash, given how short we are on people capable getting off accurate, quick effective shots.....

Not sure with what you're going for here with this post.

I'll say this, if Ryan had JVR's contract, I'd welcome him back with open arms for a package of Sekac + Stoner + (again depending on the +). Ryan is just nowhere near worth his contract, and IMO, Silfverberg makes this team better than he did/does.

There's just no defending Ryan anymore. Dude has had every excuse in the book, and still hasn't lived up to his potential. Nothing wrong with being 25-30 goal scorer though. Just not worth 7 million.