Proposal: James van Riemsdyk

Vipers31

Advanced Stagnostic
Aug 29, 2008
20,364
2,122
Cologne, Germany
Not sure with what you're going for here with this post.

I'll say this, if Ryan had JVR's contract, I'd welcome him back with open arms for a package of Sekac + Stoner + (again depending on the +). Ryan is just nowhere near worth his contract, and IMO, Silfverberg makes this team better than he did/does.

There's just no defending Ryan anymore. Dude has had every excuse in the book, and still hasn't lived up to his potential. Nothing wrong with being 25-30 goal scorer though. Just not worth 7 million.

Precisely that. Ryan was more expensive then than JVR (despite me not thinking that much of the latter) is now, despite the change in cap environment, and we already new Ryan's next contract would be even more of a mismatch between cost and output. We maximized the value trading him no later than we did.
 

DaDucks*

Guest
Not sure with what you're going for here with this post.

I'll say this, if Ryan had JVR's contract, I'd welcome him back with open arms for a package of Sekac + Stoner + (again depending on the +). Ryan is just nowhere near worth his contract, and IMO, Silfverberg makes this team better than he did/does.

There's just no defending Ryan anymore. Dude has had every excuse in the book, and still hasn't lived up to his potential. Nothing wrong with being 25-30 goal scorer though. Just not worth 7 million.

You are painting his collection of goals scored as some sort of an anomaly, largely comprised of goals that didn't matter.....this isn't a Ryan discussion, this is about bringing in player similar to Ryan, which I find Ironic because the board wanted him out....
 

Duck Off

HF needs an App
Oct 25, 2002
20,909
5,287
Oklahoma
You are painting his collection of goals scored as some sort of an anomaly, largely comprised of goals that didn't matter.....this isn't a Ryan discussion, this is about bringing in player similar to Ryan, which I find Ironic because the board wanted him out....

I didn't paint them all like that, but yes, anyone that watched Ryan knows that he scored quite frequently when it didn't matter, so yes, I think his stats were misleading.


Again, entirely different circumstances. Ryan wasn't what we needed back then. He couldn't find a role on this team. It may have changed things if Ryan was signed for a few years at 4.25 as well.

The player we're talking about makes 4.25 million, and would be a complimentary piece. Things weren't like that back then. It's an entirely different situation. We also have a severe lack of goal scorers now as well.
 

DaDucks*

Guest
I didn't paint them all like that, but yes, anyone that watched Ryan knows that he scored quite frequently when it didn't matter, so yes, I think his stats were misleading.


Again, entirely different circumstances. Ryan wasn't what we needed back then. He couldn't find a role on this team. It may have changed things if Ryan was signed for a few years at 4.25 as well.

The player we're talking about makes 4.25 million, and would be a complimentary piece. Things weren't like that back then. It's an entirely different situation. We also have a severe lack of goal scorers now as well.

Amazing how we can't find another player to inflate with our top line. I was against trading him because I knew we'd end up in the situation we are in today.
 

Duck Off

HF needs an App
Oct 25, 2002
20,909
5,287
Oklahoma
Amazing how we can't find another player to inflate with our top line. I was against trading him because I knew we'd end up in the situation we are in today.

For the record, I didn't want to just trade Ryan for the sake of trading him. I was also indifferent when the trade was made because I wanted a center coming back if we were to trade him. It worked out though, and I do believe that Silfverberg makes us much better than Ryan does. Not comparing the two to each other, but Silfverberg is just better suited for this team.

In a perfect world, Ryan would have made a salary that we could afford so he could stay with the top line. The problem is that Ryan wasn't a fit on this team. It took two coaches and multiple lines to figure it out, but he just wasn't. You can argue that he could have stayed on the top line, but we weren't going to be able to pay him his raise unless he could help other parts of the lineup.
 

DaDucks*

Guest
True, but this year and two more additional years is fine IMO. Perfect for our cup window.

He goes UFA, which means he's gone.... We're basically trading something similar for what we got for bobby, only this time we lose investment after the next two years....

No thx...
 

Duck Off

HF needs an App
Oct 25, 2002
20,909
5,287
Oklahoma
He goes UFA, which means he's gone.... We're basically trading something similar for what we got for bobby, only this time we lose investment after the next two years....

No thx...

It doesn't mean he's automatically gone, as a lot could happen in 3 seasons, but you'd probably be right. Again though, different circumstances. We weren't a contender when we traded Ryan, at least not one of the favorites anyway.

Also worth noting that I wouldn't give up what we received to get Ryan for JVR. Stoner + Sekac + isn't going to touch Ryan's package, even if the + is Ritchie (which I wouldn't do).
 

Getzmonster

Registered User
Jul 24, 2014
5,502
1,488
Yes, I remember that. Do you think that our power play improved by adding that player? That our power play still hangs on Getzlaf is part of the problem. It doesn't have to be Selanne or Ryan, but we absolutely need someone that can provide goals and to a lesser extent make plays on that power play unit. What you say in that first paragraph ignores that we're currently having to break up our best forward tandem because we don't have anyone else that can, a problem that goes deeper than 'wouldn't it be nice if Lindholm could also play with Pronger's edge'. We have two centers and one winger left to drive our offense. Ritchie might provide some relief for that when he's ready, but it's been a major issue since Bobby and Teemu started fading. We have no shortage of players that can provide a guiding light in the defensive end, but we're repeatedly coming up short with leaders on offense.

The answer we've had since Ryan and Teemu departed was depth scoring. That's how we're in the place that we are now. It sure doesn't appear to be working out. Just making up a few goals here and there doesn't address the lack of drivers on the team. We have the best supporting cast in the league, already. We're running low on players for them to support. That's what a player in the vein of Selanne or a Ryan provide.

JVR doesn't have to be the answer, but he is an answer to that effect. I'm not talking about Ryan specifically, but what Ryan represented - or failed to represent in that final year.

I don't think that we're on entirely different pages, but I feel that some here mistake criticisms of what happened as a result of the Ryan trade for a condemnation of the trade itself. Ryan was failing at the task asked of him at the time of the trade, and seeing how he's performed in Ottawa, still would. In his absence we haven't anyone step up or added that was also up to the task, that is maybe the one thing that still makes this team feel incomplete.

Great post, the bolded is spot on.

Bobby had to go because his position wasn't one that Murray felt was the best spot to invest a huge chunk of his budget, especially when he was trying to rebuild the team's anemic roster depth. Fans say Bobby was traded because of his play, or attitude, or a number of other issues, but all we know is that Murray traded him because of cost, with Getz and Perry just being re-signed we knew it would come down to a choice between Perry and Bobby. No-brainer.

That doesn't change the fact that we could still benefit from another goal scorer on this team (like Bobby or similar), we lack top end skill now, coming full circle from the top heavy team we were when he was traded. All this debate is pointless though, we can't afford Bobby or JVR now, not with such expensive middle tier players eating up so much of the budget. Murray needs to add another scorer, but on the cheap. It's no wonder he goes after the Heatley or Stewart shots in the dark to see if he can get lucky. A real solution comes from within or a rental at the deadline IMO. Even trading Vats or similar valuable trade piece likely will be for shedding salary purposes, not to bring in another expensive player.
 

snarktacular

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
20,525
182
If you think about it, Bobby's salary spot was traded for Kesler.

So if you think we have scoring depth problems due to losing Bobby, then look at Kesler, or potentially Murray for miscasting him.

We didn't have the budget to add to Ryan the, I think it's unlikely we will have the budget to add to Kesler now.
 
Aug 11, 2011
28,376
22,289
Am Yisrael Chai
If you think about it, Bobby's salary spot was traded for Kesler.

So if you think we have scoring depth problems due to losing Bobby, then look at Kesler, or potentially Murray for miscasting him.

We didn't have the budget to add to Ryan the, I think it's unlikely we will have the budget to add to Kesler now.

Yeah, and I think we talked about it in that light at the time. That money is much better spent on a different line. Bobby wasn't good enough to carry a line. Ipso facto.

Subsequently we've drained ourselves of a ton of finishing ability, addressing size or speed or character or whatever our most recent victor had that we didn't. So yeah, we could use a finisher. Anyone but Bobby, I guess. Because he had other issues.
 

Exit Dose

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
29,203
3,336
Georgia
If you think about it, Bobby's salary spot was traded for Kesler.

So if you think we have scoring depth problems due to losing Bobby, then look at Kesler, or potentially Murray for miscasting him.

We didn't have the budget to add to Ryan the, I think it's unlikely we will have the budget to add to Kesler now.
I don't disagree with that if we're talking about someone at Bobby's current pay grade, but JVR, the subject of the thread, isn't. His contract is at 4.25 million. That should be feasible to add, or at least would've been prior to Hagelin's arrival.
 

DucksAreCool

Registered User
Feb 24, 2015
1,147
1
You'd likely be in the minority in that opinion, but you were always Bobby's biggest fan boy. Give it up, man. Bobby had a chance to prove you right in Ottawa. He failed. He failed to make Team USA, and was called out on his intensity. He was given the opportunity to run his own line, and play with Getzlaf and Perry, and again and again he showed an inability to step up.

Interestingly enough, guess who showed he could step up? Silfverberg. Oh, he may never be the goal scorer Bobby was, but at least he contributes when he isn't scoring, and when the playoffs came around he gave it his all. He wasn't just a passenger like Bobby Ryan. That's Bobby's career right now. Never the driver, always the passenger.
Bobby Ryan should have made Team USA. There were more than a few questionable decisions with that roster but the biggest problem that team had was they never got the goals they needed, the one dimension he provides. He could have easily nicked a goal from nowhere in that semifinal and then it's a whole different tournament.
 

Sojourn

Registered User
Nov 1, 2006
50,523
9,377
Bobby Ryan should have made Team USA. There were more than a few questionable decisions with that roster but the biggest problem that team had was they never got the goals they needed, the one dimension he provides. He could have easily nicked a goal from nowhere in that semifinal and then it's a whole different tournament.

I don't agree. Bobby's play fell off a cliff after being snubbed. Not only that, but he really hasn't shown an ability to step up in the playoffs. In his previous appearance for the US in the Olympics, he had a very underwhelming 2 points. None of these things suggest that he should have been on the team. Yes, hypothetically he could have scored an important goal, but when you look at his overall career I think his history suggests he wasn't likely to be the difference.

Bobby was in an excellent position to show everyone that Team USA made a mistake. What did he do? Well, I'll tell you what he didn't do... he didn't play with intensity. He didn't look hungry. He played like he was going through the motions. Basically, he did all the things that lead to so many people having issues with him in Anaheim.
 

DavidBL

Registered User
Jul 25, 2012
5,976
3,921
Orange, CA
I don't agree. Bobby's play fell off a cliff after being snubbed. Not only that, but he really hasn't shown an ability to step up in the playoffs. In his previous appearance for the US in the Olympics, he had a very underwhelming 2 points. None of these things suggest that he should have been on the team. Yes, hypothetically he could have scored an important goal, but when you look at his overall career I think his history suggests he wasn't likely to be the difference.

Bobby was in an excellent position to show everyone that Team USA made a mistake. What did he do? Well, I'll tell you what he didn't do... he didn't play with intensity. He didn't look hungry. He played like he was going through the motions. Basically, he did all the things that lead to so many people having issues with him in Anaheim.

Just curious, would anyone trade to get Ryan back if say a mill was retained on his new deal?
 

Vipers31

Advanced Stagnostic
Aug 29, 2008
20,364
2,122
Cologne, Germany
Just curious, would anyone trade to get Ryan back if say a mill was retained on his new deal?

That would still be $6M for a very long time. No need (and most likely no room) to spend that on what we know we're going to get for that. (Unless we get to trade him for another Silfverberg, Ritchie and Noesen.)
 

Sojourn

Registered User
Nov 1, 2006
50,523
9,377
Just curious, would anyone trade to get Ryan back if say a mill was retained on his new deal?

Definitely not. That's still a great deal of money, and I straight up don't think he's worth it right now. More than that, his *****ing to the media about being involved in trade rumors left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't think he's shown any kind of mental fortitude in his NHL career, and we don't need that kind of player on the team.
 

xxreact9

Registered User
Jun 4, 2012
1,486
2
You'd likely be in the minority in that opinion, but you were always Bobby's biggest fan boy. Give it up, man. Bobby had a chance to prove you right in Ottawa. He failed. He failed to make Team USA, and was called out on his intensity. He was given the opportunity to run his own line, and play with Getzlaf and Perry, and again and again he showed an inability to step up.

Interestingly enough, guess who showed he could step up? Silfverberg. Oh, he may never be the goal scorer Bobby was, but at least he contributes when he isn't scoring, and when the playoffs came around he gave it his all. He wasn't just a passenger like Bobby Ryan. That's Bobby's career right now. Never the driver, always the passenger.

/clap. That is all
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad