Confirmed with Link: James "Stealth Tumor" Neal traded for Jesus Hornqvist, Nick Spaling - Part 2

[66-30-33]

Okay then. Crosby was a 60 pt player in 2011 and a 30 point player in 2012. He was totally like a 2nd-3rd line tweener those two years. I don't get what all the hooplah is about

We are talking about Neal here, not Crosby.

 

[Vegeta]

We are talking about Neal here, not Crosby.

So it is okay to use projections for Crosby, but not for any other player in the NHL.

"K".

 

[Vegeta]

The thing that sticks out most to me is the fact that in 38 NHL Playoff games with the Penguins, Neal only had goals in 7 of them. For being a prolific NHL scorer, those numbers are pretty poor. Better than the average-joe, I'm sure, but not anywhere near his regular season numbers.

To be honest, I could care less if a player scores 4 goals or 40 goals in the regular season, as long as that player factors into a long and healthy Stanley Cup run.

I agree with you, but Neal wasn't the only under-performing playoff player on our team. Our lack of production in the playoffs seemed to be systematic if anything.

 

[mikethelegacy]

We are talking about Neal here, not Crosby.

So is he, you are just failing to see the irony. He is noting that people constantly use projections to show the PACE that Sidney Crosby was on in all of his injury-ridden seasons, and even though he has had a few seasons under 100 points due to injury, he is still labeled a 100-point scorer. However, when it refers to Neal, projecting him as a 40 goal scorer when he was on PACE to do it more than one year isn't kosher. There is a bit of hypocrisy there.

 

[themethod7]

No one who isn't trying to be daft (intentionally difficult) would call Sidney Crosby a 60-point player.

Well see, this right here is where you done goofed.

 

[66-30-33]

So it is okay to use projections for Crosby, but not for any other player in the NHL.

"K".

Neal.

I'm done talking about this, if you guys think "pace" should be added onto final stats this ain't getting anywhere.

 

[mikethelegacy]

I agree with you, but Neal wasn't the only under-performing playoff player on our team. Our lack of production in the playoffs seemed to be systematic if anything.

No, I agree 100% with you. Could have been a multitude of things. We saw this sort of under-achievement at the end of the Therrien-era as well. I truly believe that our star players were just not having a good time playing hockey anymore. I think the GIF of Sidney Crosby freaking out on DB on the bench in the playoffs was a perfect picture of that.

Perhaps the drastic remodeling of this team and the new management will give Sid and Geno something to be excited about again.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

See: Lemieux, Mario

You mean the guy with so much talent he sat out for three years and came back and dominated? Ya, if Neal had his talent, I could put up with the laziness. Just like Kovy. Lazy, but he showed up when it mattered.

Very few players in this league have the talent to get away with being lazy, and most lazy players don't suddenly turn into hard working, all heart guys.

As for Rutherford, a 25% playoff appearance rate over 20 years (in the easiest league in pro sports to make the playoffs) is a terrible enough resume for me. Both of Rutherford's cup runs came off the backs of hot goaltenders, and not because he created a team with unimaginable depth. Like I said before, many people didn't have Rutherford on their radar because his terrible reputation precedes him. All we essentially did is replaced Curly with Moe. I don't see how that's such a difficult concept for you to grasp.

Oh, so now we are going to credit Rutherford's cup runs to only hot goalies. Sure.

Once again, careful what you wish for. Believing that firing Shero automatically meant a better GM would replace him was a silly, myopic viewpoint.

 

[IcedCapp]

Neal.

I'm done talking about this, if you guys think "pace" should be added onto final stats this ain't getting anywhere.

Again, I'm not talking about Pace.

I'm also not defending Neal. I've been a very loud detractor, saying he was far too lazy recently. We've seen him play with an edge, physically, with speed, with tenacity. He refused to do that the past two years. Why? No clue.

So I'm not using pace and I'm not defending Neal. I'm merely saying that, no matter what you think of him, he was a prolific scorer. He was not a 30-goal guy. He was, if you refuse to look at it in total games, a .45gpg guy.

 

[mikethelegacy]

Neal.

I'm done talking about this, if you guys think "pace" should be added onto final stats this ain't getting anywhere.

I don't think pace should be counted, but the law of averages should.

See it's pretty simple, so I'll walk you through it. Take the number of goals scored divide that by the number of games played.

89 goals / 199 gp = .477 goals/game

.447 goals/game * 82 games averages out to roughly 36 or 37 goals per 82 games.

Those are pretty close FACTUAL numbers to 40 goals/season.

Listen, I'm glad Neal got traded, but the truth was that he was AVERAGING close to 40 goals per full season and that's a fact. It can't be denied, math proves it.

 

[madinsomniac]

Again, I'm not talking about Pace.

I'm also not defending Neal. I've been a very loud detractor, saying he was far too lazy recently. We've seen him play with an edge, physically, with speed, with tenacity. He refused to do that the past two years. Why? No clue.

So I'm not using pace and I'm not defending Neal. I'm merely saying that, no matter what you think of him, he was a prolific scorer. He was not a 30-goal guy. He was, if you refuse to look at it in total games, a .45gpg guy.

I agree. I dont understand why so many think anyone we plug in there is going to instantly be a 40 goal guy. that takes talent in this day and age. Neal was very productive for us. he did show on occassion an ability to play wing at the highest level. we traded for him after a mere 2 1/2 seasons in the NHL... where Bennet will be this year... The same stuff he is so severely lacking in the whole team was lacking in... it very well could have been fixed with coaching... we undervalued him for some reason. It was a stupid deal to make especially since we got so little overall benefit from it.

 

[TheSniper26]

Neal scored 40 goals once and has scored goals at a rate that comes to about 40 goals a season. He's a "40 goal scorer". I have no idea why anyone is even trying to debate this. The question shouldn't be whether or not he's a 40 goal scorer, the question should be how did he get there? I don't believe that Neal is a 40 goal scorer without Malkin carrying him there. And I think other GMs likely feel the same way. He's a 40 goal scorer in name but I think most knowledgeable people in the hockey world know better which is why we didn't get the moon for the guy.

 

[penguins2946*]

I don't care about Neal's regular season stats if he's a 24 goal, 48 point player that doesn't score a goal in 82% of the games in the playoffs. I don't give a crap if he scores 60 in the regular season if he disappears in the playoffs.

Fun stat, Neal scored 100 goals in his time in Pittsburgh (89 regular season and 11 playoff). Of those 100, only 28 were not assisted by Crosby or Malkin. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[Shwag33]

Neal scored 40 goals once and has scored goals at a rate that comes to about 40 goals a season. He's a "40 goal scorer". I have no idea why anyone is even trying to debate this. The question shouldn't be whether or not he's a 40 goal scorer, the question should be how did he get there? I don't believe that Neal is a 40 goal scorer without Malkin carrying him there. And I think other GMs likely feel the same way. He's a 40 goal scorer in name but I think most knowledgeable people in the hockey world know better which is why we didn't get the moon for the guy.

Exactly. Neal is probably a 30 goal scorer on Nashville, 40 goal with malkin. I'd bet hornqvist and neal have very similar stats by the end of the regular season.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

I don't care about Neal's regular season stats if he's a 24 goal, 48 point player that doesn't score a goal in 82% of the games in the playoffs. I don't give a crap if he scores 60 in the regular season if he disappears in the playoffs.

Fun stat, Neal scored 100 goals in his time in Pittsburgh (89 regular season and 11 playoff). Of those 100, only 28 were not assisted by Crosby or Malkin. Just wanted to point that out.

That's actually more impressive than I thought it would be.

 

[penguins2946*]

That's actually more impressive than I thought it would be.

I didn't post that to **** on Neal, I posted that because I thought it was interesting. Considering he's out with Malkin essentially in all of his minutes, I expected it to be lower.

 

[tom_servo]

Yeah, I don't agree with downplaying Neal's production. Basically a point per game player here.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

I didn't post that to **** on Neal, I posted that because I thought it was interesting. Considering he's out with Malkin essentially in all of his minutes, I expected it to be lower.

Would be more telling to see how many he scored without Sid or Geno on the ice whatsoever.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

RT @Hope_Smoke:
Dreger "I know Calgary, and others, were disappointed that the Pens didn't shop Neal more before they made the trade"

I wonder what we could have gotten from Calgary?

Anyone catch the interview just on the x? I'm not sure who it was but he said that when the trade was announced the scouts on the floor were laughing. He said "it was a typical JR trade"

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Anyone catch the interview just on the x? I'm not sure who it was but he said that when the trade was announced the scouts on the floor were laughing. He said "it was a typical JR trade"

fml, etc

 

[gordie]

Anyone catch the interview just on the x? I'm not sure who it was but he said that when the trade was announced the scouts on the floor were laughing. He said "it was a typical JR trade"

They must have known that Rutherford screwed up in not getting one of those two 2nd rounders Nashville had.

 

[Quatro Quatro]

Is it true that the Avs offered a high pick and PA Parenteau for Neal? Because if it is, they must think Neal and Briere have a similar value which is really odd.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Is it true that the Avs offered a high pick and PA Parenteau for Neal? Because if it is, they must think Neal and Briere have a similar value which is really odd.

Well Briere is French, so he automatically has higher value to Roy.

 

[cassius]

Love the folks who are pounding the table on Neal's playoff stats...

Well, Hornqvist has a total of 3 playoff goals in 24 games. That's a 10 goal pace over an 82 game season..

 

[Quatro Quatro]

Love the folks who are pounding the table on Neal's playoff stats...

Well, Hornqvist has a total of 3 playoff goals in 24 games. That's a 10 goal pace over an 82 game season..

It's not crazy to think that those numbers might go up when he plays with a better center. Maybe he won't do better but there's no way of saying that for sure until you see how he actually plays on this team.