Confirmed with Link: James "Stealth Tumor" Neal traded for Jesus Hornqvist, Nick Spaling - Part 2

[Frederick Stanley]

Rutherford traded former 40-goal scorer James Neal to the Nashville Predators in exchange for forwards Patric Hornqvist and Nick Spaling during the first round of the 2014 NHL Draft at Wells Fargo Center.

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[lastcupever75]

i would have loved to see this proposal on the trade boards before it happened.

my guess is that most of you would have been LOLing at the thought this was fair value

or with a proposal to acquire hornquist. i doubt many of you would have included neal

 

[KIRK]

i would have loved to see this proposal on the trade boards before it happened.

my guess is that most of you would have been LOLing at the thought this was fair value

or with a proposal to acquire hornquist. i doubt many of you would have included neal

That's usually the way it works on the trade board.

I mean, imagine someone saying Bonino, a cap dump in Sbisa, and the #24 for Kesler.

 

[Michael8771*]

Riptide:And I said rebuild where? I said I wanted 1 piece added that could have some upside and help us down the road. OR I wanted a better piece than Spaling. Once again, learn to read what's written - especially when it's right in front of you.

You said you're ok with losing a trade and I said we were a win now team and to take that approach would be stupid. Particularly because we aren't in a rebuild. Hows that????

 

[KIRK]

This past post season, yes, but what about the previous playoff runs they played together?

Geno had 22 points in 20 games playing with Malone and Sykora in 2008. And, that was with a drop off in production after he got hurt (ribs cracked was the speculation, no). And, that was 10 goals in 22 games.

With Neal, it's 13 goals in 34 games in the playoffs.

In the regular season in 2007-2008, Geno had 47 goals, and he didn't start playing with Malone until December, when Sid got hurt. THAT was when his point production took off.

With Neal, even with the 50 goal season, it's 82 goals in 166 games.

NOW, one could argue that Geno gets more assists with Neal than he did playing with Malone and Sykora. 132 in 166 games versus 59 in 82 games. A marginally better pace than holds in the playoffs.

Just one thing: The Geno who played with Malone was a 2nd year player, not Geno in his prime.

What was it you said, agree to disagree? Oh yeah . . .

 

[KIRK]

Riptide:And I said rebuild where? I said I wanted 1 piece added that could have some upside and help us down the road. OR I wanted a better piece than Spaling. Once again, learn to read what's written - especially when it's right in front of you.

You said you're ok with losing a trade and I said we were a win now team and to take that approach would be stupid. Particularly because we aren't in a rebuild. Hows that????

So, we're a win now team. Why are you whining about a draft pick who won't amount to anything before Sid turns 30, if at all?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

i would have loved to see this proposal on the trade boards before it happened.

my guess is that most of you would have been LOLing at the thought this was fair value

or with a proposal to acquire hornquist. i doubt many of you would have included neal

The trade came out of nowhere. Wasn't even on people's radar for several reasons; Hornqvist is the only real offensive threat the Preds have--figured he was untouchable, the Preds don't have a guy to pair with Neal (which is why I think Neal's totals drop precipitously moving forward), rumors swirled of Winnipeg looking to move E. Kane or Wheeler.

Just because a bunch of dummies on a message board (myself included) didn't see it coming doesn't mean it was a bad trade.

 

[KIRK]

The trade came out of nowhere. Wasn't even on people's radar for several reasons; Hornqvist is the only real offensive threat the Preds have--figured he was untouchable, the Preds don't have a guy to pair with Neal (which is why I think Neal's totals drop precipitously moving forward), rumors swirled of Winnipeg looking to move E. Kane or Wheeler.

Just because a bunch of dummies on a message board (myself included) didn't see it coming doesn't mean it was a bad trade.

I didn't see it being Hornqvist. When I heard they were talking, I figured Wilson and the #11 overall.

So much happier with Hornqvist, although the Pens might have won it in 4 years if the deal were Wilson, Spaling, and the #11 overall.

Then again, it would've meant waiting until Sid's 30th birthday to find out, but, hey, it's about being able to say we won it in 10 years, so . . .

 

[Michael8771*]

Geno had 22 points in 20 games playing with Malone and Sykora in 2008. And, that was with a drop off in production after he got hurt (ribs cracked was the speculation, no). And, that was 10 goals in 22 games.

With Neal, it's 13 goals in 34 games in the playoffs.

In the regular season in 2007-2008, Geno had 47 goals, and he didn't start playing with Malone until December, when Sid got hurt. THAT was when his point production took off.

With Neal, even with the 50 goal season, it's 82 goals in 166 games.

NOW, one could argue that Geno gets more assists with Neal than he did playing with Malone and Sykora. 132 in 166 games versus 59 in 82 games. A marginally better pace than holds in the playoffs.

Just one thing: The Geno who played with Malone was a 2nd year player, not Geno in his prime.

What was it you said, agree to disagree? Oh yeah . . .

Yeah is right, Malone is ******* compared to Neal. Any knowledgeable fan knows that. Also, you're comparing two wings to one (Malone and Sykora), which in and of itself is unbalanced. Besides, that 3rd wheel on the Neal- Malkin line was largely a hindrance, yet that never gets brought up, wonder why. I guess we can blame Neal for that though.

 

[Riptide]

24 year old Colin Wilson, with 5 years pro experience and 33 points last year, has upside.

25 year old Nick Spaling with 5 years pro experience and 32 points last year, has maxed out.

Um, ok then, moving on . . .

Wilson has been more consistent in his scoring, and put up more points overall. He also had 19 in 25 games last year before getting hurt. Yes he still has some upside offensively.

Spaling on the other hand was never a big time scorer. He didn't do anything in the AHL, he never lit up the CHL until after being drafted as a 19 yr old, and he's never done anything in the NHL.

It has little to do with age, and more to do with the type of players they are. Wilson is an effective top 9 player with some potential offensively. Spaling is an effective 3rd liner, will never be a top 6 winger, and will never be an offensive player.

 

[Michael8771*]

So, we're a win now team. Why are you whining about a draft pick who won't amount to anything before Sid turns 30, if at all?

I also brought up the preds taking salary back, thus enabling us the ability to add another piece via trade or free agency. Yet THAT part of my post wasn't brought up. Keep cherry picking though, it''s cute.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I didn't see it being Hornqvist. When I heard they were talking, I figured Wilson and the #11 overall.

So much happier with Hornqvist, although the Pens might have won it in 4 years if the deal were Wilson, Spaling, and the #11 overall.

Then again, it would've meant waiting until Sid's 30th birthday to find out, but, hey, it's about being able to say we won it in 10 years, so . . .

I'm ecstatic with Hornqvist. I've loved the guy in Nashville for a while, and he's a more complete player than Neal, Kane, or Wheeler. I'd have liked Nashville to add something else, but realistically it doesn't matter. Spaling is a bottom six solution, and Hornqvist is going to be great for us. Losing Neal is a shock to the comfort zone of this team and it's fans, but that's what was needed.

I'm sure people will be very happy come playoff time.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Wilson has been more consistent in his scoring, and put up more points overall. He also had 19 in 25 games last year before getting hurt. Yes he still has some upside offensively.

Spaling on the other hand was never a big time scorer. He didn't do anything in the AHL, he never lit up the CHL until after being drafted as a 19 yr old, and he's never done anything in the NHL.

It has little to do with age, and more to do with the type of players they are. Wilson is an effective top 9 player with some potential offensively. Spaling is an effective 3rd liner, will never be a top 6 winger, and will never be an offensive player.

To be fair, while I'd like Wilson instead, our bottom six is hurting badly. We still replaced a largely ineffective player come playoff time with a solid third liner and a top line winger who is young enough to be around for a long time, does all the right things on the ice, and is likely a minimal drop off in scoring once slotted next to Sid.

 

[Riptide]

Riptide:And I said rebuild where? I said I wanted 1 piece added that could have some upside and help us down the road. OR I wanted a better piece than Spaling. Once again, learn to read what's written - especially when it's right in front of you.

You said you're ok with losing a trade and I said we were a win now team and to take that approach would be stupid. Particularly because we aren't in a rebuild. Hows that????

I said more than that, but good job taking it out of context. Go read the rest of the post.

 

[Michael8771*]

I said more than that, but good job taking it out of context. Go read the rest of the post.

I read the post, it was rubbish.

 

[Riptide]

I read the post, it was rubbish.

So that's why you quote half a sentence and take things out of context intentionally? Gotcha. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Pharrell Williams]

I read the post, it was rubbish.

I haven't been paying attention to this argument but I'm on Riptide's side because you were a meanie.

 

[Michael8771*]

So that's why you quote half a sentence and take things out of context intentionally? Gotcha. Makes perfect sense.

I answered it in the previous thread, and then this one came up in the midst of my response. In any case I just don't subscribe to losing a trade. I did mention you talking about these guys panning out, and stated that that's an unnecessary risk relative to trying to be a win now team. but again that's back in the old thread. You just zeroed in on my last sentence.

 

[Michael8771*]

I haven't been paying attention to this argument but I'm on Riptide's side because you were a meanie.

You're right and I shouldn't be so harsh. My bad.

 

[KIRK]

I also brought up the preds taking salary back, thus enabling us the ability to add another piece via trade or free agency. Yet THAT part of my post wasn't brought up. Keep cherry picking though, it''s cute.

That's because that idea was dumber and less practical than trading Crosby.

 

[Pharrell Williams]

You're right and I shouldn't be so harsh. My bad.

It's alright, just as long as we all get along here. I mean at the end of the day, we all wear the same sweater with pride. And that's what this is all about, right guys? Group hug.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah is right, Malone is ******* compared to Neal. Any knowledgeable fan knows that. Also, you're comparing two wings to one (Malone and Sykora), which in and of itself is unbalanced. Besides, that 3rd wheel on the Neal- Malkin line was largely a hindrance, yet that never gets brought up, wonder why. I guess we can blame Neal for that though.

Strange, in the playoffs, even Jokinen knew how to leech properly. Maybe Neal was the problem for the Malkin-Jokinen combo.

I can assure you that with the Malone-Sykora combo, Malone was the necessity and Sykora was the luxury, and 2009 proved that.

But, please, do go on, I'm learning so much from you tonight.

 

[KIRK]

Wilson has been more consistent in his scoring, and put up more points overall. He also had 19 in 25 games last year before getting hurt. Yes he still has some upside offensively.

Spaling on the other hand was never a big time scorer. He didn't do anything in the AHL, he never lit up the CHL until after being drafted as a 19 yr old, and he's never done anything in the NHL.

It has little to do with age, and more to do with the type of players they are. Wilson is an effective top 9 player with some potential offensively. Spaling is an effective 3rd liner, will never be a top 6 winger, and will never be an offensive player.

Uh, Wilson had 19 points in 25 games in 2012-2013.

LAST YEAR, he played 81 games, had 11 goals and 22 assists.

Spaling, by contrast, had 13 goals and 19 assists in 71 games.

Now, for their careers, I will confess that Wilson's 0.06 goals per game advantage over Spaling is most impressive.

So, looking at LAST YEAR, the similar ages, and the 0.06 goals per game difference, tell me what in the stats proves what you just wrote.

 

[deakka]

I can't believe ppl saying spalling makes our bottom 6 better. Sure, compared.to Adams he is. But he's also as soft as they come and any 3rd line including him and sutter are entering the territory of "softest line in the the league". I thought we wanted a tougher bottom 6, not softer.

Regarding the trade. At least we could have gotten one of their 2nd round picks, or swap of our 1st rounders. Or Hörnqvist + someone else. Than spalling. He feels.like a throw. In galore and there are better player I'm FA we could. Have gone after for our bottom 6.

 

[Michael8771*]

That's because that idea was dumber and less practical than trading Crosby.

So a team close to the cap couldn't ask the preds, a lowly team who needs to appease their fanbase, they couldn't be asked to take salary back on when getting the best player in the trade? Yes, what a terrible notion.

Strange, in the playoffs, even Jokinen knew how to leech properly. Maybe Neal was the problem for the Malkin-Jokinen combo.

I can assure you that with the Malone-Sykora combo, Malone was the necessity and Sykora was the luxury, and 2009 proved that.

But, please, do go on, I'm learning so much from you tonight.

What I'm learning is that you don't know what the hell you're talking about. It's pretty clear your inane agendas cloud your judgement. No one in their right mind would believe that Malone was a better winger than Neal for Geno.