Confirmed with Link: James "Stealth Tumor" Neal traded for Jesus Hornqvist, Nick Spaling - Part 2

[ColePens]

This thread is about the Neal trade. Stick to the topic.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It's pretty bold of you to tell those of us who wanted Shero gone that we are now getting a dose of reality. Wanting Shero gone =/= wanting Rutherford. There are many of us who didn't think the Penguins would be stupid enough to hire Rutherford; he wasn't even remotely close to being on my radar.

So basically you just admitted you never considered that if Shero was fired, that the next GM might be worse?

Seems kind of foolish to wish for a guy to be gone and never take into account that the next GM might be a guy that is disliked even more.

I see the same people who wanted Shero gone, *****ing about JR and the return in this deal. Seems kind of ridiculous.

 

[mikethelegacy]

This thread is about the Neal trade. Stick to the topic.

Sorry, someone was curious, so I answered their question, back on topic, kind sir

 

[Vegeta]

So basically you just admitted you never considered that if Shero was fired, that the next GM might be worse?

Seems kind of foolish to wish for a guy to be gone and never take into account that the next GM might be a guy that is disliked even more.

I didn't say that at all. I just didn't think that they'd be stupid enough to hire the arguably worst candidate available. Hell, I didn't even think Rutherford was going to continue being a GM. I fully expected him to be retired.

Regardless, Shero's drafting record and inability to surround Crosby and Malkin with talent punched his ticket out of here and deservedly so.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I didn't say that at all. I just didn't think that they'd be stupid enough to hire the arguably worst candidate available. Hell, I didn't even think Rutherford was going to continue being a GM. I fully expected him to be retired.

Regardless, Shero's drafting record and inability to surround Crosby and Malkin with talent punched his ticket out of here and deservedly so.

So again, you just assumed the next guy would be a better GM than Shero? Ok.

I can think of worse hires than a guy who built two Stanley Cup teams, but he may max out all of this teams assets to do it. So be prepared.

 

[Vegeta]

This thread is about the Neal trade. Stick to the topic.

With all due respect ColePens, if we're going to be using character assassination techniques in order to justify Neal's being traded, I think it's only fair that we mention the fact that Neal has done a lot less **** off the ice than Pens that came before him, and Pens that are still wearing the Skating 'Guin on their crest.

I won't talk about it anymore because I don't wish to derail the thread, but Neal isn't the Boogeyman that he is being made out to be.

 

[Coastal Kev]

The one mistake that I see with the trade is that Rutherford should have paired it with a bad contract. Neal + Duper, Scuds

 

[Shwag33]

So again, you just assumed the next guy would be a better GM than Shero? Ok.

I can think of worse hires than a guy who built two Stanley Cup teams, but he may max out all of this teams assets to do it. So be prepared.

Obviously someone can be worse than Shero. The neal trade we'll have to see how it plays out.


However, MUCH of this problem we're in right now can be attributed to Shero. Aside from signing malkin and crosby, and neal/whitney trades, everything he's done has put this organization in a big ass hole. Severe lack of draft picks, but on top of that no fowards in the system at all. Scuderi/letang, even dupuis contracts biting us in the ass.

Rutherford may be bad, time will tell, but the reason we're not in good shape going foward is because of Shero. In the last 1.5 years he really put the team in a bind, his work before that was much better.

 

[IcedCapp]

RT @Hope_Smoke:
Dreger "I know Calgary, and others, were disappointed that the Pens didn't shop Neal more before they made the trade"

I wonder what we could have gotten from Calgary?

Calgary doesn't really have many attractive young pieces, so I'm not sure.

 

[madinsomniac]

Rutherford has always been a "good soldier" type of GM. He pretty much has always done as asked by ownership. if he was told to cut payroll he did. If he was told to acquire a player he did. If he was told to trade a guy he did. Its one of the reasons i really favored making few major lineup changes heading into this season, at least until the coach and GM could get a feel for players and their worth on their own.

given the plan ownership spelled out for him, I can see why he made the trade... that still doent make it a good or even palitable trade. He was told to acquire a netfront guy and that neal was expendable. he made the early simple move. Neal has had exactly 2 years of his career outside of Bylsma's coaching. It would have been far better to see what a 26 year old guy could do under different tuteledge. Even if you are moving him it would have been a lot smarter to see what the absolute best offer was going to be. there was never a need to move him. This isnt Carolina where every penny matters and its not like the cap space was opened up with this move

 

[Vegeta]

So again, you just assumed the next guy would be a better GM than Shero? Ok.

I can think of worse hires than a guy who built two Stanley Cup teams, but he may max out all of this teams assets to do it. So be prepared.

Did I assume that we'd hire someone who was at least half competent and had a better track record than 5 playoff appearances in 20 seasons? Yes. Did I assume we'd get a Ken Holland? No.

I assumed that we'd get someone who would be willing to build around our core (Crosby, Malkin, Neal) and get us some forward talent. Whether that be through trading our plentiful D prospects, or through FA.

Was i wrong to assume these things? Obviously, but I didn't expect better than Shero or even Shero level trading; I just expected a different philosophy and someone who is not infinitely worse at his job than Shero is.

 

[Shady Machine]

Did I assume that we'd hire someone who was at least half competent and had a better track record than 5 playoff appearances in 20 seasons? Yes. Did I assume we'd get a Ken Holland? No.

I assumed that we'd get someone who would be willing to build around our core (Crosby, Malkin, Neal) and get us some forward talent. Whether that be through trading our plentiful D prospects, or through FA.

Was i wrong to assume these things? Obviously, but I didn't expect better than Shero or even Shero level trading; I just expected a different philosophy and someone who is not infinitely worse at his job than Shero is.

Your problem was assuming Neal was a core player. He never was.

 

[Vegeta]

Your problem was assuming Neal was a core player. He never was.

After Crosby and Malkin, he was the next closest thing we had. Some would argue Tanger, but Letang is too inconsistent and too big of a health risk to be put in there.

Regardless of whether you thought of Neal as a core member or not, we're a 2 man core now.

 

[IcedCapp]

RT @Hope_Smoke:
Dreger "I know Calgary, and others, were disappointed that the Pens didn't shop Neal more before they made the trade"

I wonder what we could have gotten from Calgary?

the most comparable to what the Nashville deal was is something like:

To Calgary:

James Neal

To Pittsburgh:

Curtis Glencross
Mikael Backlund

 

[Shady Machine]

After Crosby and Malkin, he was the next closest thing we had. Some would argue Tanger, but Letang is too inconsistent and too big of a health risk to be put in there.

Regardless of whether you thought of Neal as a core member or not, we're a 2 man core now.

As we should be. Malkin and Crosby are the only core players. Everyone else should be on the table for trade if the right offer comes about. I wasn't enamored with the return (in terms of pure value) for Neal, but Hornqvist does fit a need.

 

[Shwag33]

the most comparable to what the Nashville deal was is something like:

To Calgary:

James Neal

To Pittsburgh:

Curtis Glencross
Mikael Backlund

Hornvist is much better fit and signed longer than glencross. Backlund is much better than spaling, but could get some big money next year.

Value is probably close, but the nashville trade is probably better.

 

[stepdad gaary]

personally i really like james neal but i also really like the trade. I think Hornqvist will suffice offensively. 35g-70pts and Spaling will be the best 3rd line winger we've had in a long time.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Did I assume that we'd hire someone who was at least half competent and had a better track record than 5 playoff appearances in 20 seasons? Yes. Did I assume we'd get a Ken Holland? No.

I assumed that we'd get someone who would be willing to build around our core (Crosby, Malkin, Neal) and get us some forward talent. Whether that be through trading our plentiful D prospects, or through FA.

Was i wrong to assume these things? Obviously, but I didn't expect better than Shero or even Shero level trading; I just expected a different philosophy and someone who is not infinitely worse at his job than Shero is.

Rutherford is now worse at his job than Shero?

The guy hasn't even been here a month.

 

[Vegeta]

Rutherford is now worse at his job than Shero?

The guy hasn't even been here a month.

Historically he has been much worse. You know that. I wanted a young gun with a good resume like Benning, Martin, or BriseBois

 

[Shwag33]

Historically he has been much worse. You know that.

Honestly, thats not certain. Shero has definitely had better trades (also some terrible ones), but has royally f'd the direction of this franchise and has hamstrung JR severely. Shero was always in a better situation, walking into Crosby and Malkin.

Shero is much more respected around the league, but I think a good portion of his success is just having 2 of the best players in the world on your team, vs eric staal. He shot his wad last year trading everything away to load up for a 2nd cup run.... which I dont fault him for but he had a buffoon at the helm that couldnt put a lineup together that made any sense.

 

[mpp9]

Historically he has been much worse. You know that. I wanted a young gun with a good resume like Benning, Martin, or BriseBois

I'll never denigrate what Shero did in 09. A Cup's a Cup. But he had quite the foundation to come into. Several high end D-men drafted by the previous regime. Two generational centers. A legit #1 goalie (at the time). And the #2 overall pick.

JR built that Cup winner in 06 from the ground up. His work since then is not very impressive, but he also hasn't had the resources or finances to do what we can do here.

Give the guy a chance. He can't do any worse than Shero did the last 5 years. We're not missing the playoffs. As long as he builds the team for the playoffs, I'll be happy with him.

 

[lastcupever75]

People defending Neal here keep referring to him as 40 goal scorer. .

Nothing against PH. But how can you not call him a 40 goal scorer. He's already done it here.

If he played out his contract, don't you think he gets to (or close to) that mark??

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Neal has something like a 39 goal projected average for every year he's played here. On top of everything else... people seem to be forgetting about all of the games he's missed the last couple of seasons due to lockout/injury (and of course... suspension).

So yeah... he's a 40 goal scorer.

 

[66-30-33]

Nothing against PH. But how can you not call him a 40 goal scorer. He's already done it here.

If he played out his contract, don't you think he gets to (or close to) that mark??

He's done it once, which makes him a 1 time 40 goal scorrer. Hornqvist is a 1 time 30 goal scorrer.

 

[gordie]

He's done it once, which makes him a 1 time 40 goal scorrer. Hornqvist is a 1 time 30 goal scorer.

Exactly. Mike Bullard scored 51 in 83-84 and the closest he came again to 50 was 48 with Calgary in 87-88. Neal will have to pull that trick again on a team that doesn't employ the services of Evgeni Malkin. Good Luck James!