Player Discussion Jakob Silfverberg

[Nordic*]

Dude's bumping old posts to self-congratulate himself when he really has no idea what he's talking about.

You don't speak for everyone in here. You might not care, but others might.


Regardless, wasting time on simply putting someone down, is beyond me. But if it makes you feel better, by all means, go for it.

 

[The Duck Knight]

He is a great player and a big reason why we have a good shutdown line. I don't get the complaints. What he brings at least is:

- exceptional defensive play
- great penalty killer
- great at shoot outs - how much points did he save per season?
- 15 goals per season

A few years ago Jere Lehtinen was called a 50+ goals player by some coaches because he scores 25 a season and due to his outstandig defensive play the opponent scores so much less. I see Silfv as the same type of player. Not on the same level but very good in what he does. He is also not getting that much of PP time. Kyle Palmeri for instance had almost 2 min of PP time last season. Jakob is getting 0:51 min per average. I mean you can't deny that this also hurts. He has a wicked shot and people want him to score more on this, I understand this. But overall he is very good at what he is.

It just seems to me that some want a player that scores Bobby Ryan numbers due to the trade. That's something he isn't and will never be.



He is payed like an elite UFA defensive forward who can put up 15 goals+ a season. Sami Pahlsson got 2.65 per season.

And it's too much to pay a guy like him (and Cogs) when we're a budget team. For a cap team guys like that are fine, but we saw to start the year what this team looked like with Getzlaf in a funk and Silf as essentially the 2nd best winger. We need guys like Perron that can help ease the offensive load Getzlaf and Perry have to carry and it's going to be tough to do that with a ~14 million dollar line that doesn't produce offensively.

3.75M for a 20g - 50 points player? Good luck. Go check that list and tell me who on there is getting paid that or less? The only guys you'll find are ones due a significant raise or those with weak ass D games. Silf is a complete player.

However, I agree, he should be producing more, but he's not paid the going rate for a 20g - 50pt player with elite defensive skills. Not even close.

Vermette 3.75, Hanzal 3.1, Atkinson 3.5, Tatar 2.75, Reilly Smith 3.4, Gallagher 3.75, Henrique 4, Nielsen 2.75, Nelson 2.5, Stone 3.5, Turris 3.5, Simmonds 3.9, Ward 3.2, Johnson 3.3, Palat 3.3, Williams 3.25, Kuznetsov 3. That's a pretty broad spectrum of bridge deals/UFA years bought of better players that are right round the same price if not cheaper. Silf himself is on a bridge deal that only buys 2 UFA years. BM had to have thought he was going to get more offense out of him or he wouldn't have given him 3.75. Once again, he's not a bad player and his contract isn't terrible in a vaccum. For a budget team like us that spends 7/8 mil under the cap every year it's a luxury we can't afford if we don't want to live and die by Getzlaf and Perry every single night. For a cap team Silf would be great role player, to have as a 3rd liner with the proper depth in front of him. Assuming the budget doesn't go up substantially one of Bieksa/Despres/Cogs/Silf will need to go to fit Perron and if it comes down to Silf/Cogs or Perron I'm taking Perron. Stoner is a foregone conclusion to be gone in addition to one of the goalies IMO. That will cover the money spent on a backup G and whatever we get in return for Vats.

To the 2nd bolded- Of course he isn't because he is an elite defensive player that doesn't put up those numbers and he wasn't a UFA when he got the contract. If he were that player and a UFA he would get right around 5 per.

 

[broman]

Good for Silf to get a bit of a confidence booster heading towards POs. The jury's still out though. There need to be more nights like this before the season's over, and against teams that actually care and compete.

Still, let's enjoy the moment. Loved the driving to the net in particular.

 

[Paul4587]

I don't think that Silf was all that great tonight. Looked way better in that game against CGY a few months back. Still, anyone who can score a hat-trick and has 5 two goal games has to be a capable player. Based on this, I wouldn't trade him like some have suggested.

He's obviously capable. Even when he's not scoring he's a good player. But all his goals and points coming in bunches just proves how streaky he is. He's could very well tear it up the rest of the year and put up 40 points and everybody will forget just how bad he was the first 3/4 of the season.

He is payed like an elite UFA defensive forward who can put up 15 goals+ a season. Sami Pahlsson got 2.65 per season.

Firstly he signed his contract as a RFA, he gave up I think 1 or 2 years of UFA. Secondly Pahlsson was paid that amount how many years ago? How much higher is the cap now? Thirdly Silfverberg while being much better offensively than Pahlsson will never touch how good Pahlsson was defensively for us in his prime.

 

[Duck Off]

Posted this 3 months ago:



I'm vindicated again tonight, 4 points tonight so far

You're just trying to troll by showing up here when he has a good game. Never mind the fact that he's played poorly for a while. Picking your spots to attempt to prove a point, just shows more ignorant thinking. You're wrong. Get over it.

I don't think that Silf was all that great tonight. Looked way better in that game against CGY a few months back. Still, anyone who can score a hat-trick and has 5 two goal games has to be a capable player. Based on this, I wouldn't trade him like some have suggested.

Agreed. I definitely think he had a very good game, but NJ's goalies were both terrible. He did get to the "dirty areas" which is good to see, but NJ is a very small team. I hope this increases his confidence and he does it against bigger teams in the West.

As for the separate argument of trading him. I think one of he or Cogs has to go in the off-season. You can't spend almost 7 million on these two for this little amount of offense. That said, I would rather trade Cogs, and it pains me to say that. I just think still has some more upside, and if he plays remotely close to like he did last playoffs, then he's easily the better choice. If he goes invisible come playoff time though, then it's going to be a more difficult decision.

 

[Jack Bauer DAMNIT]

If last night wasn't a spark to get him going, then I don't know what is.

 

[JetsFan815]

He is a great player and a big reason why we have a good shutdown line. I don't get the complaints. What he brings at least is:

- exceptional defensive play
- great penalty killer
- great at shoot outs - how much points did he save per season?
- 15 goals per season

Not to mention elite possession metrics. I think he's already a better player than Kesler and Kesler is going to be on a downswing in a couple of years. I would argue he has been playing better than even Corey Perry this season in most facets of the game other than scoring considering their deployment.

Some might say he is not worth the contract just by looking at the point totals but his overall impact I believe him to be well worth that contract.

 

[JetsFan815]

You're just trying to troll by showing up here when he has a good game. Never mind the fact that he's played poorly for a while. Picking your spots to attempt to prove a point, just shows more ignorant thinking. You're wrong. Get over it.

No, not just this game. Back in December when I posted that, he had something like 6-7 points in like 42 games, since then he has had 21-22 points in 26 games

 

[JetsFan815]

Almost every player on the ice does better when playing with Silfverberg than without http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1664&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5 pretty remarkable as playing with him means more defensive zone starts than the team average

 

[Duck Off]

No, not just this game. Back in December when I posted that, he had something like 6-7 points in like 42 games, since then he has had 21-22 points in 26 games

The point is that you show up after good games. Don't pretend there's some coincidence to it.

Silf played like garbage to start the year. He wasn't alone, but yes, he was awful. Watch the games and you'd see, but why do that when you can stare at a spreadsheet right?

He was very good for a few weeks, and he's been subpar recently until he took advantage of a terrible NJ team.

I was happy to see a lot of Ducks perform well. However, both of their goalies were just awful so that's the primary reason for the lopsided score.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

he's a strong possession player, but that only goes so far, you have to be able to do things with the puck and all too often it's not much with him...

 

[AngelDuck]

I'll say again that I think what he did last year is the bare minimum for his contract to be worth it. With the 4 point night yesterday, he's now on pace for 32 points this year. That's disappointing for the money Murray paid him but not as cringe-worthy as the 22 points he was on pace for a few weeks back

 

[Paul4587]

No, not just this game. Back in December when I posted that, he had something like 6-7 points in like 42 games, since then he has had 21-22 points in 26 games

That's a lie, he doesn't have 22 points in his last 26 games, he has 17 which includes the two bunches of consecutive games he actually produced in. He has 10 points in his last 21 games, of which almost half of them came from one game. He takes a ton of low percentage shots and every now and then has a good night which he builds off for a few games by going to the dirty areas and putting up more offence before he loses that confidence and starts taking low percentage perimeter shots again.

Your use of advanced stats is incredibly flawed. No Ducks fan who has watched a good amount of games will say that Silfverberg drives the play offensively or that he's even close to Kesler in terms of on ice impact at either end.

 

[NEWFowler]

It's absurd to suggest Silfverberg has been even close to Kesler this year.

 

[Nordic*]

he's a strong possession player, but that only goes so far, you have to be able to do things with the puck and all too often it's not much with him...

When you're ona shutdown line constantly going up against the best players in the world, possession means quite a lot. For instance that it is pretty hard to get scored on when you drive/own the possession.

Offensively he has underperformed by 20-25ish points thus far, but defensively he's still elite and a pain in the ass to play against.

 

[Nordic*]

When you're ona shutdown line constantly going up against the best players in the world, possession means quite a lot. For instance that it is pretty hard to get scored on when you drive/own the possession.

Offensively he has underperformed by 20-25ish points thus far, but defensively he's still elite and a pain in the ass to play against.

And how many points has he won for Anaheim the last two seasons, in shootouts alone?

Highest scoring percentage in shootouts in the history, although of course a smaller sample size than a lot of the other top-10 guys.

 

[Norduck]

When you're ona shutdown line constantly going up against the best players in the world, possession means quite a lot. For instance that it is pretty hard to get scored on when you drive/own the possession.

Offensively he has underperformed by 20-25ish points thus far, but defensively he's still elite and a pain in the ass to play against.

This. He's not been producing as much as we all would like to see him do, but he's lining up against the best players on the opposing team every night. And shutting them down most nights too. Obviously Kesler's a bigger part of that than Silfverberg, but that doesn't mean Silfverberg isn't also a big part of that. He's very, very good defensively, and the points he does get show up as minuses for the other team's top line.

I'm very happy with the strides the Ducks have taken defensively this season. That Kesler-Silfver partnership is a key part of that.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Kesler has been the best and most consistent duck this season imo. mod

 

[xxreact9]

Not to mention elite possession metrics. I think he's already a better player than Kesler and Kesler is going to be on a downswing in a couple of years. I would argue he has been playing better than even Corey Perry this season in most facets of the game other than scoring considering their deployment.


Some might say he is not worth the contract just by looking at the point totals but his overall impact I believe him to be well worth that contract.

Just no....

 

[Paul4587]

When you're ona shutdown line constantly going up against the best players in the world, possession means quite a lot. For instance that it is pretty hard to get scored on when you drive/own the possession.

Offensively he has underperformed by 20-25ish points thus far, but defensively he's still elite and a pain in the ass to play against.

You know the reason that line has great possession numbers? It's because of Kesler being world class defensively. He is the driving force of that line and the main reason they've had any success this year.

 

[Nordic*]

You know the reason that line has great possession numbers? It's because of Kesler being world class defensively. He is the driving force of that line and the main reason they've had any success this year.

If that's the case, I hope that both Cogs and Silfver get traded in the off-season, replaced by two minimum salary plugs.

 

[JetsFan815]

You know the reason that line has great possession numbers? It's because of Kesler being world class defensively. He is the driving force of that line and the main reason they've had any success this year.

Then please explain why Kesler has much worse possession numbers without Silfverberg than Silfverberg does without Kesler

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1664&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5

Kesler without Silfverberg: 45.4 CF%
Silfverberg without Kesler: 48.3 CF%

You may chalk some of the difference up to more Dzone starts but to say Kesler is responsible for Silfverberg's good underlying number is very very wrong.

 

[Nordic*]

Please build off last game and no revert to being useless offensively.

Ps. This jetsfan is delusional

Jetsfan is dead on!!


Also. Silfver should absolutely, positively ALWAYS be on one of the pp units.

That is the second best situation, besides the shootouts, where he can have the time and space to use his wicked shot.

Right now.

PP1

Perron-Getzlaf-Perry

Rakell-Lindholm


PP2

McGinn-Kesler-Silfverberg

Fowler-Manson


Yes, damnit, I want to try Manson on the PP!


Vatanen and Theo move in when they're on the team.

 

[Paul4587]

Then please explain why Kesler has much worse possession numbers without Silfverberg than Silfverberg does without Kesler

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1664&withagainst=true&season=2015-16&sit=5v5

Kesler without Silfverberg: 45.4 CF%
Silfverberg without Kesler: 48.3 CF%

You may chalk some of the difference up to more Dzone starts but to say Kesler is responsible for Silfverberg's good underlying number is very very wrong.

The little time they have spent apart was on different lines where Silfverberg was taking on far weaker opponents. Kesler was still being used to shut down top units while Silfverberg was playing more sheltered minutes. Also Kesler is used thrown out frequently as a second centre to take defensive zone draws on other lines. That's obviously not going to help his possession numbers. At the end of games when other teams are pressing Kesler is almost always out there where as Silfverberg rotates out with our other top defensive wingers.

If you don't buy those explanations and actually think Silfverberg is better than Kesler based off stats alone then your opinion is very very wrong.

 

[Paul4587]

Jetsfan is dead on!!


Also. Silfver should absolutely, positively ALWAYS be on one of the pp units.

That is the second best situation, besides the shootouts, where he can have the time and space to use his wicked shot.

Right now.

PP1

Perron-Getzlaf-Perry

Rakell-Lindholm


PP2

McGinn-Kesler-Silfverberg

Fowler-Manson


Yes, damnit, I want to try Manson on the PP!


Vatanen and Theo move in when they're on the team.

Silfverberg has had plenty of PP opportunities and outside of the odd game where he does well there he doesn't really produce much with the extra man. He has a poor one timer, takes ages to wind up for a slapper, isn't overly good on the half wall and struggles to get his shot off in heavy traffic.

Also which forward do you take off the PP for Silfverberg?? We usually go with 3 forwards 2 defensemen on the PP which leaves 6 spots for forwards.

These guys all should be ahead of him:

Getzlaf
Perry
Perron
Kesler
Rakell
McGinn (a rare LHS on our team and the best net front presence we have.
Pirri (another rare LHS and if you've seen him in Florida you'd know that he is an absolute weapon on the PP).