Jake Voracek

[dragonoffrost]

Teams routinely win with offensively minded wingers. I'd prefer to let him do what he does best instead of trying to make him into something else.

I'm not trying to fix him but if I can get a trade offer for him that involves us getting a guy back that is a net equivalent, meaning what he lacks in offense he improves the team defense. I might look at making that deal.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm not trying to fix him but if I can get a trade offer for him that involves us getting a guy back that is a net equivalent, meaning what he lacks in offense he improves the team defense. I might look at making that deal.

I'd need the contract to be equivalent as well.

 

[dragonoffrost]

I'd need the contract to be equivalent as well.

What if it comes as a savings?

 

[Beef Invictus]

What if it comes as a savings?

That doesn't seem likely. We'd need someone to replicate the Kessel trade to Pitt with us, and that kind of thing doesn't happen often at all.

 

[Tripod]

Our forward group is really ****ing good. I feel like a lot of people don't realize that. Easily our best group since 2012, maybe even 2010.

Especially when our forwards, have yet to really see the impact of the rebuild except for Konecny and Lindblom. Like we have yet to get the impact that Patrick can bring. He can be double what he was this year. Getting that makes a big difference on a nightly basis. Or Frost. Or our other 1st round draft picks that were forwards in Farabee, Rubstov or JOB.

When you draft 6 1st round forwards during the rebuild, and so far only 1 is playing as expected(Konecny) AT THE NHL LEVEL(please note: NHL LEVEL) it shows how much room for improvement we have from just within from out top picks....let alone the help from all the prospects we have drafted.

If all the sudden Rubstov and JOB turn things around not to mention guys like Allison getting healthy and staying, we could be set up quite nicely. Of course due to sheer spots available, some will be moved, but at least it's to keep the pipeline coming.

 

[deadhead]

Teams routinely win with SOME offensively minded wingers. I'd prefer to let him do what he does best instead of trying to make him into something else.

Corrected.
Or why were TB and Toronto first round exits?
They have lots of offensively minded wingers.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Reminder....Jake was tied for 11th in ES scoring for RW'ers this year....and he is 9th over the last 2 years.

Side note: Konecny is 16th in ES scoring over the last 2 years.

In other words Hak was right when he used two of them to spark wonder twins scoring as they clearly can drive offense.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Corrected.
Or why were TB and Toronto first round exits?
They have lots of offensively minded wingers.

Your correction has done nothing to change my point.

 

[Rebels57]

Especially when our forwards, have yet to really see the impact of the rebuild except for Konecny and Lindblom. Like we have yet to get the impact that Patrick can bring. He can be double what he was this year. Getting that makes a big difference on a nightly basis. Or Frost. Or our other 1st round draft picks that were forwards in Farabee, Rubstov or JOB.

When you draft 6 1st round forwards during the rebuild, and so far only 1 is playing as expected(Konecny) AT THE NHL LEVEL(please note: NHL LEVEL) it shows how much room for improvement we have from just within from out top picks....let alone the help from all the prospects we have drafted.

If all the sudden Rubstov and JOB turn things around not to mention guys like Allison getting healthy and staying, we could be set up quite nicely. Of course due to sheer spots available, some will be moved, but at least it's to keep the pipeline coming.

When I look at guys like Ruby, JOB, and Allison..I dont get too excited because Giroux may be gone and Voracek past his prime by the time they are IMPACT NHLers (if ever). But I agree on Patty, Frost, and Farabee. They could be impact players that take the current core over the top.

 

[Tripod]

When I look at guys like Ruby, JOB, and Allison..I dont get too excited because Giroux may be gone and Voracek past his prime by the time they are IMPACT NHLers (if ever). But I agree on Patty, Frost, and Farabee. They could be impact players that take the current core over the top.

I agree with that. However if all the sudden they jump up and look like they could be legit top 6 players, then all the sudden we would be brimming with talent....cheap talent....beyond the 3 you mentioned who are more "expected" to get there.

 

[deadhead]

Ratcliffe gets no respect?

 

[Rebels57]

I agree with that. However if all the sudden they jump up and look like they could be legit top 6 players, then all the sudden we would be brimming with talent....cheap talent....beyond the 3 you mentioned who are more "expected" to get there.

I can see a few traded to help fill other holes too.

 

[deadhead]

I don't see many prospects traded for other than draft picks (i.e., future prospects).
That's because other than high draft picks who haven't flopped yet, AHL/CHL players are too unproven to garner real NHL value.

However, when a prospect is pushing for a job, the veteran becomes trade bait because another team, especially at the TDL, can project that veteran into their lineup and make a good guess what the player' potential value might be to their team.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

I don't see many prospects traded for other than draft picks (i.e., future prospects).
That's because other than high draft picks who haven't flopped yet, AHL/CHL players are too unproven to garner real NHL value.

However, when a prospect is pushing for a job, the veteran becomes trade bait because another team, especially at the TDL, can project that veteran into their lineup and make a good guess what the player' potential value might be to their team.

The opposite can be true here though. We may be in a position that a singular “go for it” move is what need to happen. At that point, it’s likely our top guys in frost and farabee are contributors. After that, if you perceive a hole in your roster and can go fix that, you absolutely have to.

This also supposes that we have a constant influx of prospects bettering their veteran counterparts. In likelihood that is going to slow down a ton in the next two to three years.

 

[deadhead]

One strategy will be to package prospects for draft picks, then draft picks for NHL players.

The reasoning is that teams will trade lottery tickets (draft picks) for specific prospects they value, and teams are always willing to trade NHL players for draft picks because it provides options to refill their talent pipeline. But it's harder to match prospects with players.

The exception is of course highly rated prospects, but I doubt Fletcher is moving Frost, Farabee or Ratcliffe. And who else could land you a top flight NHL player even in a multi-player deal?

A surplus goalie is a possibility, but even then they'd be more likely to have Sandstrom backup for a couple seasons while Ersson develops, then trade him under a RFA contract after he's shown enough in the NHL to garner real value.

 

[AdamParrot]

Absolutely agree.

That critism on him is exaggerated. Yes, I know that he had some bad games this year. But he had some bad games last years too as a everyone player in the league expect McDavid maybe. Players like Crosby, Kane, Kucherov or Ovechkin had bad games too.

And I want to say we are really in good position if most of our fans have to critizing Jake who is 3rd in team points and we are 3rd in Metro. It's mean that there aren't so much problems like were last seasons where we had VVs, Mannings, Grossmanns, Haggs etc, etc...

This team is on good way. And if Jake can be only better, it's only good for us.

P.S.: Flyers fans, Jake had been reading this forum last years what I know. I expect he has been reading this season too. Maybe rather support good players would be better than only critizing them if they had som bad moments, games.

And don't @ME with his contract, please. He totally deserved it in that time. It wasn't absolutely his, G or Couts fault they had teammates like Sestito, Rinaldo, VV, (old) Knuble, Grossmann, Lilja, Manning, Hägg, Lyubimov, Medvedev etc, etc... Jake was still TOP20 producer in the league.

 

[YEM]

my annoyances with Jake would drop tremendously if he is just never picked for a shootout attempt ever again

 

[wankstifier]

Absolutely agree.

That critism on him is exaggerated. Yes, I know that he had some bad games this year. But he had some bad games last years too as a everyone player in the league expect McDavid maybe. Players like Crosby, Kane, Kucherov or Ovechkin had bad games too.

And I want to say we are really in good position if most of our fans have to critizing Jake who is 3rd in team points and we are 3rd in Metro. It's mean that there aren't so much problems like were last seasons where we had VVs, Mannings, Grossmanns, Haggs etc, etc...

This team is on good way. And if Jake can be only better, it's only good for us.

P.S.: Flyers fans, Jake had been reading this forum last years what I know. I expect he has been reading this season too. Maybe rather support good players would be better than only critizing them if they had som bad moments, games.

And don't @ME with his contract, please. He totally deserved it in that time. It wasn't absolutely his, G or Couts fault they had teammates like Sestito, Rinaldo, VV, (old) Knuble, Grossmann, Lilja, Manning, Hägg, Lyubimov, Medvedev etc, etc... Jake was still TOP20 producer in the league.

Voracek is awesome.

The contract is still well-deserved.

 

[Tripod]

Regarding contract....Skinner just got 9 million coming off his highest total for his career. And Jake STILL had more points than he did last year in a "down" year.

Oh....and Jake is outproducing him this year too.

 

[David St Hubbins]

I think the "hate" angle is overplayed. For example, there are numerous times a trade involving Jake is raised as a possibility TO IMPROVE THE TEAM and the fainting couches come out about how people are "hating on Jake" or otherwise disrespectful. Sure, there are some idiots out there who reflect the extreme pov noted, just are there a thougth police on the other side overreacting to a reasonable discussion of options on a DISCUSSION BOARD. Most folks are in the middle.

But hey, never let a chance go by to call up the "bad Philly fan" meme. You know they booed Santa Claus? (51 Years ago - let it go.)

 

[Flyotes]

He's great, but could sharpen up some aspects of his game.

Get a little more stalwart on defense, look to be a bit more greedy in the offensive zone, keep the puck more glued to his stick.

Last night was a great example. He worked hard on the board, out positioned guys, used his body well, generated chances. But he also looked for that extra pass a few times, leading directly to a change of puck possession, or tried one extra move and had the puck come off his stick. I know that comes with looking for the right play at times, but in a close game it can rub people the wrong way. God himself couldn't convince me one of those shots he should of simply taken. He was driving towards the net, unobstructed, shooting lane completely clear, and instead trying to pass it for the slam dunk goal and it got tipped away by a defenseman who put a stick in the lane. HQ chance erased.

Some fine tinkering and he's an all-star again.

 

[renberg]

He's great, but could sharpen up some aspects of his game.

Get a little more stalwart on defense, look to be a bit more greedy in the offensive zone, keep the puck more glued to his stick.

Last night was a great example. He worked hard on the board, out positioned guys, used his body well, generated chances. But he also looked for that extra pass a few times, leading directly to a change of puck possession, or tried one extra move and had the puck come off his stick. I know that comes with looking for the right play at times, but in a close game it can rub people the wrong way. God himself couldn't convince me one of those shots he should of simply taken. He was driving towards the net, unobstructed, shooting lane completely clear, and instead trying to pass it for the slam dunk goal and it got tipped away by a defenseman who put a stick in the lane. HQ chance erased.

Some fine tinkering and he's an all-star again.

These are exactly Voracek’s issues. What matters is at the end of the night is whether or not the player added a positive force to the game with the totality of his play. Take away versus turnovers; scoring chances created versus scoring chances allowed; passes made versus passes intercepted; etc. That Voracek outscores Skinner, or any other player, is really irrelevant to whether his overall play adds to the success of the team.

 

[duffy9748]

I don’t think any of them will be bad players in the next few years, but I really wish that the 22+ million spent on 93/25/13 could be spent differently.

 

[Striiker]

Thing is, he’s still a massive net positive.

You tolerate any mistakes because he does his job and produces... and then does crazy stuff like he did last night to set up the Giroux goal.

Unfortunately too many people only remember the negative things and lose sight of the big picture (which definitely happens for a specific group of players on this team). Every single player makes mistakes but what matters is if they make up for them. That’s why punishing a guy like Jake for rough patches or mistakes by demoting him is the wrong thing to do... you have to give him the opportunity to make up for the mistakes, otherwise you’re just left with the negative and get no positives to balance it out.

He’s not scoring a lot with Hayes and an AHLer?!?! Shocking, I know. Before he was put on that line he was 2nd in scoring, so yet again I feel the need to remind people that usage and linemates matter a lot.

 

[Tripod]

I think the "hate" angle is overplayed. For example, there are numerous times a trade involving Jake is raised as a possibility TO IMPROVE THE TEAM and the fainting couches come out about how people are "hating on Jake" or otherwise disrespectful. Sure, there are some idiots out there who reflect the extreme pov noted, just are there a thougth police on the other side overreacting to a reasonable discussion of options on a DISCUSSION BOARD. Most folks are in the middle.

But hey, never let a chance go by to call up the "bad Philly fan" meme. You know they booed Santa Claus? (51 Years ago - let it go.)

Yes...numerous trade proposals to "help" the team....like trading him for Jamie Benn. The same Jamie Benn who makes more money, is signed longer, and has 6 points in 19 games.

I have yet to see a trade proposal that "help" the Flyers win more games now.