Player Discussion Jake Virtanen, Pt. XXII: 'Tis no man — 'tis a relentless redemption machine

[iFan]

I agree this cap hell is caused by Benning’s terrible contracts to guys who don’t contribute. Imo, if Benning does trade Jake it must be as sweetener to dump a toxic contract. Jake isn’t worth dumping Loui’s 2 years, or 2 years. That leaves Sutter and Baer. Using Jake to dump Either is fine with me.

I believe Virtanen would be worth Eriksson contract for a team in the rebuilding/retooling faze, for a team like that it’s a no risk move as Eriksson only has a season after this one coming up and you get a potential young 20 goal scorer with size, speed, great at take aways and brings physical play.

I get the disappointment around Jake given where he was picked but he’s a valuable player to the team that helps us. I believe we are better off unloading Sutter and Pearson who shouldn’t cost us much to move than moving Virtanen, maybe we can off load Baertschi as well if we add a pick. If Virtanen was a 4th round pick I bet none of this talk happens.

Canucks aren’t in a spot to be moving a player like Virtanen, we need his size, his physical play, his speed and his 18 goals(potentially 20 goals a season) and his cap friendly cost, that’s where many are over looking the benefit to keeping him, it will be almost impossible for us to replace what he brings at 2 million.

 

[Fatass]

I believe Virtanen would be worth Eriksson contract for a team in the rebuilding/retooling faze, for a team like that it’s a no risk move as Eriksson only has a season after this one coming up and you get a potential young 20 goal scorer with size, speed, great at take aways and brings physical play.

I get the disappointment around Jake given where he was picked but he’s a valuable player to the team that helps us. I believe we are better off unloading Sutter and Pearson who shouldn’t cost us much to move than moving Virtanen, maybe we can off load Baertschi as well if we add a pick. If Virtanen was a 4th round pick I bet none of this talk happens.

Canucks aren’t in a spot to be moving a player like Virtanen, we need his size, his physical play, his speed and his 18 goals(potentially 20 goals a season) and his cap friendly cost, that’s where many are over looking the benefit to keeping him, it will be almost impossible for us to replace what he brings at 2 million.

If we can resign Jake for 2 million (maybe a three year term?) then he is a useful middle six player on a very trade friendly contract. If he has enough value to dump the two remaining years of Loui (as you suggest) then that should be Benning’s first choice. That would clear Jake’s 2 plus Loui’s 6, and (with Big Zack, or Cole Lind playing Jake’s role at league minimum) that is a net of 7 million off the cap. We could resign Toffoli then, and have Brock and Tofu as the 1-2 R Wingers. That’s actually getting a lot of value out of Jake.

 

[HockeyWooot]

I can’t speak authentically about whether or not Virtanen has any chances left with the organization off the ice. I think it’s clear that something about how he conducts himself has rubbed the organization the wrong way.

But if he does have any rope left with them, I hope we don’t give up on him. He has still improved year over year for the past few years, and I think he will continue to do so. It’s been a slow process, but it has been progressive. Replacing his 18 goals in the bottom six is easier said then done, too.

One thing I would work hard on with both him and Gaudette is teaching them how to PK. That would dramatically increase their effectiveness as hockey players if they could both learn that. Defense can be taught, and I would assign Malhotra to work with them on that.

This. The PK point is spot on.

I suspect Jake with his speed will be able to chip in SHGs as well.

 

[VanJack]

This thread you're pumping up Virtanen and letting us know you think he is a good player. Other Gaudette thread you're saying Gaudette doesn't play with good wingers. News flash, Virtanen and Gaudette are regular linemates this year. If you think Virtanen is a good winger, that means Gaudette did play with a good winger this year.

This debate has nothing to do with whether Virtanen and Gaudette are 'good forwards' or 'bad forwards'. It's all about the money. Between them they scored 30 goals in 69 games. One guy earns slightly over $1m a season and the other guy is on an entry level contract for under $1m a season. The best Virtanen could expect in arbitration is a 30 percent raise, and Gaudette isn't even eligible for arbitration.

These are cheap, cost-controlled young forwards. So as I said, they're not even remotely the problem with the Canucks. It's the other slugs in their bottom six Benning brought in because they're 'character players'. Maybe they are, but they're also not very good and collectively consume an ugly $25m a season under the salary cap.

 

[Canucks1096]

This debate has nothing to do with whether Virtanen and Gaudette are 'good forwards' or 'bad forwards'. It's all about the money. Between them they scored 30 goals in 69 games. One guy earns slightly over $1m a season and the other guy is on an entry level contract for under $1m a season. The best Virtanen could expect in arbitration is a 30 percent raise, and Gaudette isn't even eligible for arbitration.

These are cheap, cost-controlled young forwards. So as I said, they're not even remotely the problem with the Canucks. It's the other slugs in their bottom six Benning brought in because they're 'character players'. Maybe they are, but they're also not very good and collectively consume an ugly $25m a season under the salary cap.

Sure

But with your post, you're indirectly showing that you think Virtanen is a good player. Other thread you indicated that Gaudette doesn't play with any good wingers, what you said about Gaudette is completely not true.

 

[thefutures]

I don't get how people say he's only worth a 3rd. Hope I'm wrong

 

[Hit the post]

I don't get how people say he's only worth a 3rd. Hope I'm wrong

Any unsigned RFA Jake maybe (though I agree a 3rd is selling him REALLY short).

 

[lawrence]

One kid brings nothing on most nights despite the big and powerful stature.

I don't agree with this actually. Jake's literally has more hits then Troy while getting a lot less ice time. Jake is pretty much your every day ideal 3rd line player.

He already is a top 6 forward

I like the guy a lot, I do, but I don't see him as a top 6 player right now, and it's fine too.

 

[lawrence]

rubbed the organization the wrong way.

going clubbing, and taking a selfie while driving. I do agree, as a person of his status in B.C, that was immature. Hope he learns from it and doesn't do it again.

 

[Peter10]

This debate has nothing to do with whether Virtanen and Gaudette are 'good forwards' or 'bad forwards'. It's all about the money. Between them they scored 30 goals in 69 games. One guy earns slightly over $1m a season and the other guy is on an entry level contract for under $1m a season. The best Virtanen could expect in arbitration is a 30 percent raise, and Gaudette isn't even eligible for arbitration.

These are cheap, cost-controlled young forwards. So as I said, they're not even remotely the problem with the Canucks. It's the other slugs in their bottom six Benning brought in because they're 'character players'. Maybe they are, but they're also not very good and collectively consume an ugly $25m a season under the salary cap.

If you expect Virtanen getting only about 1.6m in arbitration you may be in for quite a surprise. I would reckon it could be closer to double that amount.

 

[strattonius]

If Ben Hutton thinks he can get 3.5M in arbitration I'm assuming Virtanen probably feels the same - some of us talk about his impressive 20-20 pace this season....well 20 goal scorers don't sign for 1.5M.

 

[iceburg]

18 goals in a shortened season: huge argument for the player in arbitration.
11 minute average on the 4th line in the playoffs: poor payoff for the team but may not have a huge impact in arbitration

Seems to be setting up for an overpayment in arbitration and, therefore likely won't get there.

I have always been in Virtanen's camp, hoping he would ultimately have a consistent impact on this team. But his overall marginal impact in the playoffs was a turning point for me. At times he looked very confident, other times very timid.

 

[VanJack]

Based on Benning's body language from the end-of-season presser, it wouldn't surprise me if Virtanen was moved even before the entry draft in a month. And I'm not convinced Stecher will be back either.

 

[member 328930]

Based on Benning's body language from the end-of-season presser, it wouldn't surprise me if Virtanen was moved even before the entry draft in a month. And I'm not convinced Stecher will be back either.

I would not care at all. Agree with Benning here. This player is hugely disappointing. He was ghost on the ice most nights in the playoffs. He's big, incredibly strong on his skates and extremely fast and uses none of those tools. The guy has no edge, no will......

If you can move him with bad money, do it.

 

[bicboi64]

Virtanen + Eriksson for Ryan @50%

Costs OTT cap but saves actual cash.

I'd do that. Ryan isn't getting any younger and I'd love to see him have a shot at the playoffs. Maybe playing on a team with EP will remind him that he used to be a top line forward lol

 

[Baberham Lincoln]

Jake is the Big Country Bryant Reeves of the Canucks.

 

[lawrence]

Jake is the Big Country Bryant Reeves of the Canucks.

Lol no.

 

[Baberham Lincoln]

Lol no.

Yes. A 6th overall pick that was supposed to play big and immovable but didn't turn out that way at all? Comes to training camp overweight multiple times?

 

[lawrence]

Yes. A 6th overall pick that was supposed to play big and immovable but didn't turn out that way at all? Comes to training camp overweight multiple times?

lol true, that said Jake somehow still ends up being our fastest skater, big country’s career literally ended right away. Thinking of the grizzlies make me sad....

 

[David71]

I would not care at all. Agree with Benning here. This player is hugely disappointing. He was ghost on the ice most nights in the playoffs. He's big, incredibly strong on his skates and extremely fast and uses none of those tools. The guy has no edge, no will......

If you can move him with bad money, do it.

all playoffs everyone wanted to SEE that JAKE come out. but it wasn't meant to be.. he had time to lay the boom on some players in the playoffs but he stopped.. what a shame. bust 6th overall pick for benning. jake will flourish in a different organization which is better

 

[David71]

i wouldnt be surprised if jake virtanen gets bounced around in the league because he hasnt "gotten it" and will be out playing in europe in less than 2-3years.

 

[Canucks1096]

Never been a fan of Virtanen since day 1. I wanted Ehlers on draft day.

I am glad I am not hearing Virtanen is the next Bertuzzi anymore. Or look at the Sedins, Kesler, Naslund. It takes longer to develope for some players

Power forward takes longer to develope, that is not true and Virtanen has never played like a power forward before

Hopefully Benning will trade Virtanen

 

[Melvin]

Absolutely baffled about all the Virtanen talk. Didn't watch (or care about) much of the playoffs but Jake was one of the success stories of the reg season and is a pretty decent asset at his price. Maybe it's the off ice stuff but Jake is one of the last players I'd be looking to move right now.

Of course I said the exact same thing about Nick Bonino in 2015 so.

 

[604]

all playoffs everyone wanted to SEE that JAKE come out. but it wasn't meant to be.. he had time to lay the boom on some players in the playoffs but he stopped.. what a shame. bust 6th overall pick for benning. jake will flourish in a different organization which is better

I just don't get this perspective.

Jake led the team in GWG (6) and scored at an excellent 40+ point pace while having over 100 hits with average ice-time of 13 minutes a night.

Given his limited ice-time, his production is excellent.

He's not Cam Neely but he's far from a bust.

 

[Get North]

He's one of the most useless 20 goal scorers out there, but he's a 20 goal scorer. I'd say $2.5-3M is my max, but Toffoli who is a real top 6 player is worth $2m more than Jake.

Virtanen deserves some more respect because he's not at his peek yet. He can be a big factor 2-3 years from now if he's still on the 3rd line.