Value of: Jake Virtanen and Thatcher Demko

[Yannickg]

The reality is Vancouver doesn’t have choice to move some picks or prospect to get rid of some contracts.
I will do: demko,stretcher right,erickson(30% R.S) and a 2021 seconde pick to detroit for a second pick

Virtanen right and Sven(30% R.S)to buffalo for a 2020 second round

 

[Clamshells]

If Ottawa takes Baertschi (maybe with slight retention) as well, Vancouver probably does it.

Virtanen may have shaken off the bust label and looking like he's putting it together, but he's definitely not worth $8M in dead cap.

 

[kanuck87]

Virtanen may have shaken off the bust label and looking like he's putting it together, but he's definitely not worth $8M in dead cap.

It's more like $5-6 million if no retention is involved. Difference between Eriksson and Anisimov is $3 million (1.5 million x 2 years) and Baertschi's cap hit is $3 million. Would do a slight retention on Baertschi (25%?), but I don't think it's terrible value for a 24 year old winger who looks like a future second line player.

 

[Clamshells]

It's more like $5-6 million if no retention is involved. Difference between Eriksson and Anisimov is $3 million (1.5 million x 2 years) and Baertschi's cap hit is $3 million. Would do a slight retention on Baertschi (25%?), but I don't think it's terrible value for a 24 year old winger who looks like a future second line player.

Fair, I forgot about Anisimov, but it still feels excessive because of Eriksson's extra year. I'd rather see the retention on Eriksson and Anisimov, so Ottawa isn't eating the full $6M cap hit in year two when they have to resign Tkachuk, Wolanin, Batherson, and friends.

 

[kanuck87]

Fair, I forgot about Anisimov, but it still feels excessive because of Eriksson's extra year. I'd rather see the retention on Eriksson and Anisimov, so Ottawa isn't eating the full $6M cap hit in year two when they have to resign Tkachuk, Wolanin, Batherson, and friends.

Looks like I miscalculated. I thought Anisimov had an extra year on his contract. Maybe just swap Ryan in for Anisimov and then you can retain 30% on Ryan. So you guys take on an extra $4.5 million in cap hits for 2021 and just $1 million for 2022 for taking Virtanen.

 

[780il]

Adam Larsson as a base?

 

[kanuck87]

Adam Larsson as a base?

We're not looking to take on salary, and we don't need a RD when we already have Stecher as our 3rd RD that we can bring back for ~2.5 million.

 

[Cogburn]

Looks like I miscalculated. I thought Anisimov had an extra year on his contract. Maybe just swap Ryan in for Anisimov and then you can retain 30% on Ryan. So you guys take on an extra $4.5 million in cap hits for 2021 and just $1 million for 2022 for taking Virtanen.

Ryan for Eriksson is fine, Virtanen should be no where near that deal though.

 

[Cogburn]

The reality is Vancouver doesn’t have choice to move some picks or prospect to get rid of some contracts.
I will do: demko,stretcher right,erickson(30% R.S) and a 2021 seconde pick to detroit for a second pick

Virtanen right and Sven(30% R.S)to buffalo for a 2020 second round

Those are just atrocious in terms of value.

 

[Kurrilino]

I'll give up Lizotte and Macdermid

 

[kanuck87]

Ryan for Eriksson is fine, Virtanen should be no where near that deal though.

The trade would be Ryan (30% retained) for Eriksson, Virtanen and Baertschi. Trading Virtanen to free up ~$5-6 million in cap hits is just about what he's worth.

 

[Cogburn]

The trade would be Ryan (30% retained) for Eriksson, Virtanen and Baertschi. Trading Virtanen to free up ~$5-6 million in cap hits is just about what he's worth.

So we're clearing Baertschi for Virtanen then?

Ryan's a better player then Erikssons, but we don't need an upgrade to our 3/4 wingers, so even at 30 percent retained, we save, what, a million in cap space? We can just send Erikssons down to Utica for that kind of savings.

 

[kanuck87]

So we're clearing Baertschi for Virtanen then?

Ryan's a better player then Erikssons, but we don't need an upgrade to our 3/4 wingers, so even at 30 percent retained, we save, what, a million in cap space? We can just send Erikssons down to Utica for that kind of savings.

We'd clear ~$4 - $4.5 million in 2021 and $1 - $1.5 in 2022 worth of cap hits. Ryan could probably still play in some limited capacity, so the cap savings here is pretty substantial.

 

[Cogburn]

We'd clear ~$4 - $4.5 million in 2021 and $1 - $1.5 in 2022 worth of cap hits. Ryan could probably still play in some limited capacity, so the cap savings here is pretty substantial.

I'm removing the elements of Baertschi, who is really only 2 million and some playing in the minors, and Virtanen has no contract as of yet. Eriksson for Ryan is the trade I'm countering with, so adding Virtanen to save a little bit on Ryan and to dump Baertschi is incredibly expensive.

Ryan can play in some limited capacity, relative to even his retained cap hit, but he isn't a game breaker. He isn't any younger than Eriksson, and while he is still a better player, there is no way he is worth losing Virtanen to move up that slightly in performance.

 

[kanuck87]

I'm removing the elements of Baertschi, who is really only 2 million and some playing in the minors, and Virtanen has no contract as of yet. Eriksson for Ryan is the trade I'm countering with, so adding Virtanen to save a little bit on Ryan and to dump Baertschi is incredibly expensive.

Is it really? The Leafs had to trade a 1st round pick to dump Marleau's $6 million cap hit and Virtanen isn't worth a 1st round pick.

 

[Cogburn]

Is it really? The Leafs had to trade a 1st round pick to dump Marleau's $6 million cap hit and Virtanen isn't worth a 1st round pick.

Kapanen got one, that would be my ask if the trade didn't involve a cap dump. Same number of points, more goals, worse line mates, brings more tools to the table. Coleman and Goodrow too. I don't think it's an unfair ask.

And yes, Marleau was a dead cap buy out. Erikssons would be a cash saving measure for Ottawa. His 6 million in cap is worth 2.5 in real dollars. Ryan is worth the same as his cap hit in dollars. The comparison to Marleau isn't merited.

If Ottawa wanted to take Eriksson straight up for Virtanen, fine (they don't), but taking Ryan back for Baertschi (if that's how it's being framed) is obscene.

 

[Clamshells]

Oh look we've circled back to Ryan for Eriksson for the 30th time this year. Ottawa isn't interested, let it go.

 

[Cogburn]

Oh look we've circled back to Ryan for Eriksson for the 30th time this year. Ottawa isn't interested, let it go.

Is it only 30?

 

[Luck 6]

I’m happy to move these two players to get rid of Eriksson, Sutter, and Baertschi contracts. If we can get something back, all the better.

It does limit our trade partners but there are teams out there that can absorb some cap for a few years in exchange for accelerating their re-build.

 

[sabresnyper]

So Mittlestadt for Sutter and Virtanen was approved by someone here? Nice. Sold!

 

[Cogburn]

So Mittlestadt for Sutter and Virtanen was approved by someone here? Nice. Sold!

I gave a tentative yes. Can Mittlestadt play wing? And wasn't there a pick, or am I mixing two proposals together. I think I must be mixing them together.

 

[PettersonHughes]

So Mittlestadt for Sutter and Virtanen was approved by someone here? Nice. Sold!

Not so fast.

Sutter's been a solid two-way guy these playoffs for us, and of course Buffalo would want him as a throw-in to stabilize things behind Jack (he'd hold down your 3rd line and insulate Cozens if needed, or he could be a matchup 2nd line center, bumping MarJo from the middle where he's been an awful 40% at the dot).

While Vancouver is solid down the middle with Pete, Bo and Gaudette, given his play I don't think Sutter would be a throwaway, but a team on the rise (or with holes) would probably find value in him with cap retained.

Also, for all his potential, Mittlestadt's season was the reverse of Virtanen's (Jake had career bests in points, Casey was in single digits). What was the reason for Casey's decline? Injury, mismanagement, poor linemates, bad luck or something else? That would be important to know before a decision like this if I was the GM, because at least on paper he's starting to look like a Puljujarvi/ Lias Andersson, and it'd be terrible to buy high on a possible dud for two roster pieces.

 

[Boondock]

Lehkonen and a 3rd for Virtanen

Why would this be if any interest to the Canucks?

 

[Lenerdosy]

The cost of dumping longer term than one year will be far more than Jake or Demko. Dumping Loui is being evenly hopeful on my part. Sutter and Baer will clear 9 million.

But how does that benefit the Canucks really? Next year the cap crunch isn't going to kill us, it'll be the season after when Petey and Hughes get paid.

 

[LowFive]

What is this post even. Giving up demko and virtanen for a cap dump? Also despite detroit being the worst team in the league they were scrapped to the cap ceiling.

Detroit WAS up against it, but Detroit's cap situation is deceiving because of LTIR guys like Zetterberg and Franzen. Once the playoffs finish Detroit will have Gagne (2.8M), Ericsson (4.2M), Daley (3.1M), Howard (4M), Green retained salary (2.6M), Weiss buyout (1.6M), Franzen (3.9M) all coming off the books. That plus the 6M of Z's contract that wont be against Detroit's cap.

And with all that money leaving, Detroit's only relevant RFAs to resign are Mantha and Bertuzzi who should command no more than 12M between the two. Detroit could have upwards of 20 million in cap space to start the offseason in October if things remain as they are.

That being said, I agree that Vancouver probably wouldn't go for that trade. And as a wings fan I'm not a huge fan of picking up a cap dump (as much as I would love Demko). I would rather have the money to go after guys like Krug or Hall in free agency if they make it there.