Sportsnet: Jake Gardiner Talk

[ottomaddox]

Friedman on his 31 thoughts podcast says that a few weeks ago, it was assumed that Gardiner and Toronto were for sure parting ways because of a lack of cap space. However, with the Zaitsev and Marleau stuff coming to light, depending on what happens with them, and say someone like Brown, the Leafs could have a good amount of cap space.

He says Toronto wants to keep him, if possible, and Gardiner wants to stay, but it comes down to when/if Marleau, Zaitsev and the like get moved.

Says Montreal and Chicago are the two likely teams to have strong interest in him.

Too many "ifs" to make this happen. Is Friedman refusing to acknowledge that Jake Muzzin, Morgan Rielly, and Travis Dermott are leafs ?

 

[Mr Hockey]

He is gone and on the decline and too sensitive to play for the Leafs, he would be crushed by the media and fans in the next few years, it's gonna be bad around Leaf nation

 

[Lightsol]

Please show one piece of evidence showing opposing teams loving the idea of getting to face him.

One. Piece. Of. Proof.

Well, bluelines just gave you the proof you wanted. But of course, now you're moving the goalposts and insisting that you need someone quoting the exact thing I said, even though I never implied it was an exact quote.

I mean, it's not like we heard Cassidy say after Game 7 was over that he noticed which players on the ice would make Babcock throw out which matches, and so he threw out the combination that would result in Babcock giving Gardiner and Dermott 4 shifts in 4 minutes and would lead directly to two goals, one of which was a blatant cough-up by "best Leafs defenseman" Jake Gardiner... Oh, wait, we DID.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Not really a fan of paying decently big money for a 30+ defenseman with back issues. We have no idea if he's even back to 100% get or capable of it long term.

I like Gardiner as a player but we're too deep at LD to take the chance on him becoming an anchor as early as year 1 or 2.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Well, bluelines just gave you the proof you wanted. But of course, now you're moving the goalposts and insisting that you need someone quoting the exact thing I said, even though I never implied it was an exact quote.

I mean, it's not like we heard Cassidy say after Game 7 was over that he noticed which players on the ice would make Babcock throw out which matches, and so he threw out the combination that would result in Babcock giving Gardiner and Dermott 4 shifts in 4 minutes and would lead directly to two goals, one of which was a blatant cough-up by "best Leafs defenseman" Jake Gardiner... Oh, wait, we DID.

Okay show me the proof then, instead of talking out of your ass

 

[Morgs]

What's wrong with it?

Dermott is an acceptable replacement for Gardiner. You won't get as many points but you also won't get as many brain farts.

Acceptable replacement is fine. As good or better tban Jake today is hilarity.

 

[Lightsol]

Muzzin's had more turnovers and more costly turnovers last year.

They're both fantastic transition players, turnovers are part of their game. High-risk, high-reward with their passing. Muzzin is almost as good as Gardiner with his stick, but ten times better with physical play which is why I prefer Muzzin over Gardiner no doubt.

You're embarrassing yourself with your comments.

HOLY SHIT! Gardiner had less turnovers than Muzzin... In a 3 month period in a system where Gardiner already had a spot locked down for most of it, and Muzzin was just coming in for the first time, didn't even have a consistent partner for the first few weeks, and oh, yeah, Gardiner's helped out by missing a chunk of that with an injury, making it look like he had less turnovers than he would have if he'd played the whole damned thing...

Isn't it funny that Muzzin managed to make the supposedly terrible Zaitsev look like a passable defenseman, while Gardiner managed to make Dermott look like a deer caught in the headlights? And when they were played the other way, the same thing happened; Muzzin's partner looking steady and Gardiner's partner looking lost and frightened?

 

[Morgs]

Lmao man, i thought the Nylander threads were bad

 

[Orfieus]

Friedman on his 31 thoughts podcast says that a few weeks ago, it was assumed that Gardiner and Toronto were for sure parting ways because of a lack of cap space. However, with the Zaitsev and Marleau stuff coming to light, depending on what happens with them, and say someone like Brown, the Leafs could have a good amount of cap space.

He says Toronto wants to keep him, if possible, and Gardiner wants to stay, but it comes down to when/if Marleau, Zaitsev and the like get moved.

Says Montreal and Chicago are the two likely teams to have strong interest in him.

My #1 fear just might come true, Gardiner is a good Dman but not for the Leafs

 

[Suntouchable13]

Gardiner should be retained. Sell Brown and/or Kadri if need be. Zaitsev and Marleau leaving opens this door.

If you don't retain Gardiner, then you have to get Erik Karlsson, or Stralman/Myers if you miss on EK. There's not a 20+ minute D-man of any handedness available after those three below 38, and no RHDs at all.

Gardiner is way too soft for me and is too mistake prone. Not sure what people see in him. We need to move on. Sure, let's sign him for 6 or 7 mil a year for the next 6 or 7 years to watch him make boneheaded play after boneheaded play in crucial situations. Let's not win a playoff series ever, that would be so fun!

 

[A1LeafNation]

How many playoff series game 7s he gonna cost us before we let him go?

 

[Stephen]

If you want to know what re-signing Gardiner might look like, it's probably what Philadelphia got out of James van Riemsdyk this year.

 

[Stephen]

Gardiner is way too soft for me and is too mistake prone. Not sure what people see in him. We need to move on. Sure, let's sign him for 6 or 7 mil a year for the next 6 or 7 years to watch him make boneheaded play after boneheaded play in crucial situations. Let's not win a playoff series ever, that would be so fun!

Gardiner is/was largely pretty good over the course of 82 games. He's not consistently dependable but he's got an elite skillset and can bring some spectacular elements to the transition game, puck moving, etc.

Problem is he's also guaranteed to be a pressure point the opposition exploits in big game situations. If he had the compete level and bite Little Torey Krug has, maybe he could overcome that. But he's shown on repeat occasions that in the biggest moments, he's going to break down.

 

[hamzarocks]

We are well past the stage off moving on from 51. There is no reason to keep him on our roster. Like seriously why would the leafs want him?

He can only play LHD a position in which we have

Rielly(top 10 defenseman)
Muzzin(top 40 defender)
Dermott(a number 5 defender with the potential to be a support top pairing piece)
Sandin(our best prospect and a top 10 defensive prospect league wide)
Rosen(a fringe bottom pairing defender who is cheap, pretty young and hungry to establish himself
Along with other AHL depth guys like the finn we signed and borgman.

Gardiner is going to be 30 next year. He will be looking at 6-7 million on a 5-7 year deal. He is at the stage where he could see a decline in his game if injuries start to pile up. His back I jury reduced him to a bottom pairing liability in these years playoffs.

Forget the advance stats, forget what he was able to do in the past( 45+ points, 20+ mins and be a strong 2nd pairing guy). You dont pay a player in his late 20s/30s big money and term unless your confident they will remain an impact player kn your roster for majority of the deal. Gardiner by virtue of his position(LHD) and injury concerns simply is to much of a gamble for Dubas to take and risk his reputation on the line. Stay far and away from 51 come free agency. Work on a 3-4 year deal for Muzzin instead to keep him in town for the next few years.

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm not a Gardiner hater by any stretch but it is really time to move on from Gardiner.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[moon111]

We have him in Dermott, with out the brain farts.

Let's also consider the minutes played, the opposition played against, teammates played with, and age.
There were games where fans raked Gardiner over the coals, yet if you were to compare the numbers based on ice-time,
it was Dermott who was the real disaster. Granted he's just a young kid who'll hopefully get better. And he might
not of been on the ice with the top two lines which can even get Reilly Norris talk happening as well. But the Leafs
have a horrible system which really puts the defense in a high risk situation in trying to get the puck out. Someone
like Gardiner can look bad at times... other blueliners are quiting the team because of it. I'm all for moving on for
financial reasons, but think the honeymoon with Dermott would soon be over as well.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Big contracts for non top line guys is what kills your cap. His contract will become an albatross very quickly. Let someone else make that mistake.

 

[bentharbs]

We simply cannot afford Gardiner. I'd love to bring him back as a player. We just simply cannot afford him under the cap.

 

[Fogelhund]

We simply cannot afford Gardiner. I'd love to bring him back as a player. We just simply cannot afford him under the cap.

This is pretty much all we need to know. Gardiner won't be back. Move on people.

 

[ToneDog]

Even if we had cap space to sign Gard, I would look to spend the money in the free agency market since our left side is deep. Tyler Myers could be someone to look at but I have not heard many good things about him.

 

[horner]

Jake crumbles when we need him the most.
Boston loves Jake.

 

[Fogelhund]

Even if we had cap space to sign Gard, I would look to spend the money in the free agency market since our left side is deep. Tyler Myers could be someone to look at but I have not heard many good things about him.

Myers isn't good... He's just big...

 

[ToneDog]

Myers isn't good... He's just big...

Sounds like a farm animal on this team but I think Myers would be fine at the right price point if we cannot acquire a top 3 RHD.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Myers isn't good... He's just big...

To some, that's all that's important

 

[Zybalto]

Gards is a lot better than most give him credit for but I have major reservations about giving what is going to be a big money long term contract to a guy heading into 30s who went through major back issues this year.