Sportsnet: Jake Gardiner Talk

[Nithoniniel]

with Shattenkirk, Stone, and Petrovic all on the market available for likely cheap short term contracts, we should not be looking at bringing back Gardiner. Won't make sense unless he takes less than 2M.

What on earth do those have to do with each other?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Unless you throw open ice hits and fight you are soft according to this board. Look at the teams going deep, none are icing lineups full of these guys.

Some of you need to watch other teams, not just for this stuff, but to reset reality of how good other teams bottom end guys are. The way people talk about our #6 D and stuff they act like other teams have top 4 D all through their lineup.

Not at all. But you have to be able to position your body in front of a guy, ride him into boards, control stick and take/control of a loose puck. Watch Weber closely he is an expert at it. Rielly just does not have that skill set. You don't have to be uber aggressive. Larry Robinson was also super good at it. Neither of those guys throw BIG checks often (they did sometimes but not often). Toronto hockey fans for the most part have not seen the skill done properly in so many years that they don't even understand it anymore.

 

[Squiffy]

This above is why McCabe in his prime years was the best D man we had in the last 15 years. And Yuchy before that.

(This post is for all the old timers lol...)

 

[Leafsforever89]

He's not coming back to Toronto but I'm going to go ahead and assume you don't have the inside scoop on his contract negotiations. I'll trust the guy talking to people in the league every day.

I know more than him. I live on Marner's street.

 

[member 300185]

Gardiner will sign with Ottawa. You heard it here first.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Looks like Gardiner's hold out is going right down to the wire!

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Ozhiganov was the most meh player ever, he was there whilst not helping on special teams and having the crap sheltered out of him, give me Marincin any day of the week

At least I can defend a lead and PK with that plug

Sure if you want the PK to be scored on consistently...Marincin is a middle of the pack AHL defenseman...Babcock just loves the guy but my eye and smell test tell me the same thing "keep him as far away from an NHL rink as you possibly can

 

[JayfromNB1219]

First of all, Duncan Keith isn't even a replacement level NHL defenceman any longer. Secondly, your list makes no sense, and is largely comprised of the best (i.e. top 31) D-men in the league.... not "#2"s by any definition except for Team Canada or first All-Star teams.

Here is how they are #2's
Karlsson-Plays w/Burns in SJ
Ellis- Plays w/Roman Josi in NSH
Petry- Plays w/ Shea Weber in MTL
Keith- Plays w/Gustaffson CHI
Hamilton- Plays w/ that loaded D corp in Carolina
Dumba- Plays w/ Ryan Suter MIN
Ekblad- Plays with Yandle- FLO
Dunn- Plays on the towers of death that is STL defense corps
Brodie- Giordano in CGY
Myers- Plays w/ Big Buff in WPG

These are all #2' for their teams and they are all better than Gardiner...that isn't to say Gardiner (when used properly) isn't a very good defense-man because he is...but his mental makeup isn't a fit for the microscope that is playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs...besides how are we going to use him? Rielly and Barrie are clear cut 1 and 2 I think Muzzin comes in ahead of him as well...which sticks him into a #4-7 Dman we have enough puck movers at this point...
Rielly- Ceci
Muzzin- Barrie
Harpur-Dermott (some plug until Dermott is better) we can't afford 5M on a 3rd line defender who won't play PP (Rielly,Barrie and Muzzin all come before him) doesn't PK and makes major mistakes at terrible times...let's move on from Gardiner...he's been here and loyal but sometimes it's better to move on and start somewhere new...I hear the Isles play in a pretty empty building or Arizona

 

[JayfromNB1219]

With Gardiner instead of Ceci, we could have gone with:

Muzzin-Rielly
Gardiner-Barrie
Dermott-X

That would be an immensely strong group of defenders.

That would be an opposing forwards wet dream right there

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Perhaps the Leafs and Gardiner have a deal but first the Leafs have to clear space by getting rid of a 6 million contract, come on down Nylander so the Leafs get a good prospect and draft picks and add Gardiner. Speculation only on my part.

trade NYLANDER to sign GARDINER...speaking of a waste of much needed cap space...naw I'm good lol...glad you aren't GM

 

[LeafingTheWay]

That would be an opposing forwards wet dream right there

Our forwards would love that D-pair.

 

[DopeyFish]

That would be an opposing forwards wet dream right there

they have wet dreams over not being able to get consistent zone time?

i guess everyone has a weird fetish

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Here is how they are #2's
Karlsson-Plays w/Burns in SJ
Ellis- Plays w/Roman Josi in NSH
Petry- Plays w/ Shea Weber in MTL
Keith- Plays w/Gustaffson CHI
Hamilton- Plays w/ that loaded D corp in Carolina
Dumba- Plays w/ Ryan Suter MIN
Ekblad- Plays with Yandle- FLO
Dunn- Plays on the towers of death that is STL defense corps
Brodie- Giordano in CGY
Myers- Plays w/ Big Buff in WPG

These are all #2' for their teams and they are all better than Gardiner...that isn't to say Gardiner (when used properly) isn't a very good defense-man because he is...but his mental makeup isn't a fit for the microscope that is playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs...besides how are we going to use him? Rielly and Barrie are clear cut 1 and 2 I think Muzzin comes in ahead of him as well...which sticks him into a #4-7 Dman we have enough puck movers at this point...
Rielly- Ceci
Muzzin- Barrie
Harpur-Dermott (some plug until Dermott is better) we can't afford 5M on a 3rd line defender who won't play PP (Rielly,Barrie and Muzzin all come before him) doesn't PK and makes major mistakes at terrible times...let's move on from Gardiner...he's been here and loyal but sometimes it's better to move on and start somewhere new...I hear the Isles play in a pretty empty building or Arizona

Exactly! I don't get what some of these fans don't get about a #2 defensemen.

Karlsson is a #2 in SJ, but would be a #1 on many teams in the league. Just like Tavares and Matthews are centres #1 and #2, but would be #1s on their own team. The same sould be said with Marner and Nylander at the RW position.

We have what is going to be a good defense core this year. Rielly, Ceci, Muzzin, Barrie, Dermott and whomever grabs the the #6 spot. Plus we have Sandin and Liljegren knocking on the door.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Exactly! I don't get what some of these fans don't get about a #2 defensemen.

Karlsson is a #2 in SJ, but would be a #1 on many teams in the league. Just like Tavares and Matthews are centres #1 and #2, but would be #1s on their own team. The same sould be said with Marner and Nylander at the RW position.

We have what is going to be a good defense core this year. Rielly, Ceci, Muzzin, Barrie, Dermott and whomever grabs the the #6 spot. Plus we have Sandin and Liljegren knocking on the door.

I'm with you lol...it will definitely be better than last year's edition (assuming Ceci isn't a tire fire) ...the over the top love for Gardiner has always mystified me...yes he's a good Dman and gifted offensively but he's no Morgan Rielly or Tyson Barrie and he is extremely weak mentally...5M is about 4M too much for a 4-7 offensive Dman...I think of him as what Schmaltz would be if he reached his absolute ceiling as an offensive Dman

Love the guy , he was obviously passionate about the Leafs and I will always respect him for his willingness to stand up and claim his mistakes as opposed to trying to avoid the media...but it's time to move on...and I hope he goes to another NHL team and really finds his footing

 

[inthe6ix]

Gardiner will sign with Ottawa. You heard it here first.

Habs will get him - eventually - once they get rid of Alzner.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Habs will get him - eventually - once they get rid of Alzner.

To be fair...pair him with Weber and that would be a dynamite 1st D pairing (forget Mete...let the kid play with Petry or something)

 

[inthe6ix]

To be fair...pair him with Weber and that would be a dynamite 1st D pairing (forget Mete...let the kid play with Petry or something)

That's why it makes sense from their standpoint as they need a decent LHD. Pair him up with Weber who will shelter his defensive liabilities and let him roam. One year show me deal should do it to see if his back will hold up. It's a good situation for them and him. Mete is a good young player, but he needs more time to season.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

That's why it makes sense from their standpoint as they need a decent LHD. Pair him up with Weber who will shelter his defensive liabilities and let him roam. One year show me deal should do it to see if his back will hold up. It's a good situation for them and him. Mete is a good young player, but he needs more time to season.

good observation...I don't see Bergevin putting 2 and 2 together though...and secondly I don't want to hate Gardiner which would be my reaction should he don the bleu blanc et rouge...he spent too long in Toronto to not know how we feel about that team and those fans lol

 

[Its not your fault]

This above is why McCabe in his prime years was the best D man we had in the last 15 years. And Yuchy before that.

(This post is for all the old timers lol...)

Yuchy let's go Elliott!

 

[Squiffy]

Yuchy let's go Elliott!

Uhhh.. Ellett? I’m guessing Ellett and autocorrect. Love me some Ellett, nice drop.

 

[Its not your fault]

Uhhh.. Ellett? I’m guessing Ellett and autocorrect. Love me some Ellett, nice drop.

Yes yes damn slipped that up. Nice constructive thinking. I liked Yuchy more as I was a bit older to understand but Ellett was underapprcated in his time hear and lead a strong defence.

 

[tmlms13]

Next CBA they should allow teams to trade retained salary...

I'd happily give up a middle round draft pick to get Kessel's 1.2m off the books. Might get enough space to have marner and Gardiner if he takes like a 1 year 3m deal.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Next CBA they should allow teams to trade retained salary...

I'd happily give up a middle round draft pick to get Kessel's 1.2m off the books. Might get enough space to have marner and Gardiner if he takes like a 1 year 3m deal.

1 year 3 million
Guy is looking for a 30 to 40 million dollar contract
But here is 3 million

 

[DopeyFish]

Next CBA they should allow teams to trade retained salary...

I'd happily give up a middle round draft pick to get Kessel's 1.2m off the books. Might get enough space to have marner and Gardiner if he takes like a 1 year 3m deal.

or at least allow retention to be paid at discretion. at end of training camp, they should be able to choose how much of the big pool they want to pay per contract. so if the leafs had $10 million in cap and wanted to take on the rest of kessel's retention in that year, they should be able to.

even if paid off, the contract would still be accounted for at a $0 contract so the contract would still be counted towards the 3 limit, which still makes retention a risk:reward gamble especially in the longer years. but it helps maximize dead cap usage and in effect maximizes contract spending efficiency.

they are still limited with how many they can do. they will take the entire hit of salary and cap at some point... but it opens flexibility to rebuild processes

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Next CBA they should allow teams to trade retained salary...

I'd happily give up a middle round draft pick to get Kessel's 1.2m off the books. Might get enough space to have marner and Gardiner if he takes like a 1 year 3m deal.

I wouldn't be surprised if LTIR & signing bonuses are the big focus. Those issues are more likely to garner the interest and support of the majority of the owners.