Jake Allen 2018-19

[Stupendous Yappi]

If Allen is going to implode and need to be moved, you gotta play him and get it over with. And if he's going to find his form, even better.

 

[Stealth JD]

Thank goodness Jake isn't going to miss any significant time. I'd hate to think what our chances of the playoffs would look like if we lost our #1 so early in the season. Crisis averted.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

Thank goodness Jake isn't going to miss any significant time. I'd hate to think what our chances of the playoffs would look like if we lost our #1 so early in the season. Crisis averted.

 

[Stealth JD]

sadly, there was no need to even tell anyone that was sarcasm, we've gotten to that point.

 

[Ranksu]

Can @TruBlu or @Brian39 wrap up last night Jake Allen goals?

 

[TruBlu]

Can @TruBlu or @Brian39 wrap up last night Jake Allen goals?

Two deflections, a breakaway, one Jake should have had, and another blocked puck, by a defenseman, that is popped in from a few feet away who, like so many other instances last night, was standing right in the crease without so much as a wet fart to move them. We know you don't like Jake. Would you feel comfortable throwing Husso behind this team?

 

[Itsnotatrap]

When the coaching and on ice leadership is this lost and unstructured, I wouldn’t put Husso up into this tire fire even if he was playing well. Binnington, on the other hand, may not get another shot and has seen as much as he is ever going to at the AHL level. I might entertain that.

 

[carter333167]

I wouldn’t hesitate to bring up Husso. If he really is a great goaltender in the making, his confidence is not nearly as fragile as some might think. Great goaltenders are fighters. Goals against should piss them off, not make them meekly shrink away.

Plus, candidly, a struggling team offers a golden opportunity for a young goaltender. If he comes in and shuts the door in a game or two, it will do huge things for his development.

That said, I think the issue of the day is not Allen or Husso but rather is Yeo. We need to solve that issue ASAP.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I want Husso to succeed, but I don’t see the high ceiling that some on here project. I fear he’s being set up to be a disappointment, given a task that no young goalie not named Roy would be able to tackle. Are there posters who don’t think his AHL season so far has not been a disappointment? Do we ignore that when we fantasize about calling him up to relieve Allen? If he can’t bail out a disorganized AHL team, why would he do so with the NHL squad...at the same time as getting acclimated to the faster speed of the NHL game?

I think Johnson has a bigger chance of getting on a hot streak for 20 games.

It’s not an easy situation for Armstrong, but he created a lot of it.

 

[Ranksu]

I want Husso to succeed, but I don’t see the high ceiling that some on here project. I fear he’s being set up to be a disappointment, given a task that no young goalie not named Roy would be able to tackle. Are there posters who don’t think his AHL season so far has not been a disappointment? Do we ignore that when we fantasize about calling him up to relieve Allen? If he can’t bail out a disorganized AHL team, why would he do so with the NHL squad...at the same time as getting acclimated to the faster speed of the NHL game?

I think Johnson has a bigger chance of getting on a hot streak for 20 games.

It’s not an easy situation for Armstrong, but he created a lot of it.

I think you are bit off your vision about how bad our NHL squad defense really is. Our d-core are taking away dangerous shooting lane by blocking shots etc. and giving up short side angles. Our defensive system is relying our goaltender having good rebound controll and good position awarness with all those Allen is poor. No matter what kind of traffic Allen will face he's in problem. He'll most off cases moving too aggressive at net which makes deflections even harder him to save (only rely his reclections which are NHL top notch btw), having absolutely horrendous rebound controll which allows easy goals. If you (goaltender) are screened you should always try to seek the puck and make yourself big as possible and not collapse to small as possible and retreat inside of crease.

I think last night games couple goals were good example how bad Allen really is with his position, too deep in the net, making himself too small, not finding the shooter (puck) and majority of time moves gliding all over the place and guessing where to puck would go.


Even I could be a coach and have success with team against where is Jake Allen playing. Just say to players SHOOT HIGH, SHOOT ONLY HIGH.

2nd goal

 

[TheDizee]

allen was fine last night. he also made some huge saves to actually keep the losers in the game when it was 3-1.

hes a big problem overall but last night he was fine.

 

[Blueston]

I think you are bit off your vision about how bad our NHL squad defense really is. Our d-core are taking away dangerous shooting lane by blocking shots etc. and giving up short side angles. Our defensive system is relying our goaltender having good rebound controll and good position awarness with all those Allen is poor. No matter what kind of traffic Allen will face he's in problem. He'll most off cases moving too aggressive at net which makes deflections even harder him to save (only rely his reclections which are NHL top notch btw), having absolutely horrendous rebound controll which allows easy goals. If you (goaltender) are screened you should always try to seek the puck and make yourself big as possible and not collapse to small as possible and retreat inside of crease.

I think last night games couple goals were good example how bad Allen really is with his position, too deep in the net, making himself too small, not finding the shooter (puck) and majority of time moves gliding all over the place and guessing where to puck would go.


Even I could be a coach and have success with team against where is Jake Allen playing. Just say to players SHOOT HIGH, SHOOT ONLY HIGH.

I think what many of Allen's defenders miss is not that we expect him to be able to react and make save every time on deflected shot, we expect him more often to be in good position and still be able to make saves on shots he can't reasonably react to because they hit him.

 

[Edgar Carrow]

I like the Jake Allen soft kitten tab.

 

[TruBlu]

I think you are bit off your vision about how bad our NHL squad defense really is. Our d-core are taking away dangerous shooting lane by blocking shots etc. and giving up short side angles. Our defensive system is relying our goaltender having good rebound controll and good position awarness with all those Allen is poor. No matter what kind of traffic Allen will face he's in problem. He'll most off cases moving too aggressive at net which makes deflections even harder him to save (only rely his reclections which are NHL top notch btw), having absolutely horrendous rebound controll which allows easy goals. If you (goaltender) are screened you should always try to seek the puck and make yourself big as possible and not collapse to small as possible and retreat inside of crease.

I think last night games couple goals were good example how bad Allen really is with his position, too deep in the net, making himself too small, not finding the shooter (puck) and majority of time moves gliding all over the place and guessing where to puck would go.


Even I could be a coach and have success with team against where is Jake Allen playing. Just say to players SHOOT HIGH, SHOOT ONLY HIGH.

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2nd goal


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Pick games where Allen is actually the main reason we lose to make your point. He was not the main reason we lost. Even if you attribute all three goals that weren't deflections to him he played league average goaltending. In the meantime, the defense is allowing the opposing team to keep a minimum of 2 guys in front of the crease to screen the goaltender and deflect shots; see how that works? We are also seeing a lot of odd man breakaways heading back to the net. Jake used to be so much better than Elliott on breakaways. He was good for stopping 2 out of every 3 and Elliott used to save maybe 4 out of 10. I wish they'd throw Husso in there just to see what your reactions are when you don't get the results you keep claiming we'll get. I really don't, because I value his future in this club more than you do I guess.

 

[MissouriMook]

One of the things I find particularly concerning about Allen’s play this season is how often he is getting caught deep in his net. Elliott caught a lot of flak for this, often deservedly so, but he made it work for the most part because he was positionally sound and still managed to cover a lot of net. With Allen and his career long struggles to maintain position and stay square to the puck, being off-angle -AND- too deep in his net has had disastrous results. He’s just giving opposing shooters way too much net to shoot at.

 

[TruBlu]

One of the things I find particularly concerning about Allen’s play this season is how often he is getting caught deep in his net. Elliott caught a lot of flak for this, often deservedly so, but he made it work for the most part because he was positionally sound and still managed to cover a lot of net. With Allen and his career long struggles to maintain position and stay square to the puck, being off-angle -AND- too deep in his net has had disastrous results. He’s just giving opposing shooters way too much net to shoot at.

Could be a big part of the reason he isn't making those breakaway saves like he used to. That used to be his strong point. We used to win the majority of them. The defense is bad, goaltending is bad, and I fear we are going to start shipping out players instead of coaches first like we did with Oshie; especially since the coach we have now is a mini-me of the last one.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

I'm not a fan of throwing Husso into this current **** storm whatsoever. He's struggling to keep pucks out of the net in San Antonio from what I've read on this board. Binnington on the other hand deserves a shot since he's becoming nothing more than an afterthought in the organization from what I can tell. Maybe he's a late bloomer and would relish an opportunity to come help stop the bleeding, he's 25 so if he's going to amount to anything now is the time to find out. It's not likely he'll be a second coming of Tim Thomas and become a premier netminder when he turns 46.
On the other hand there is a long list of goalies in the history of the game that didn't get their shot until they are in their mid to late 20's and flourish, if only for a few seasons.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Pick games where Allen is actually the main reason we lose to make your point. He was not the main reason we lost. Even if you attribute all three goals that weren't deflections to him he played league average goaltending. In the meantime, the defense is allowing the opposing team to keep a minimum of 2 guys in front of the crease to screen the goaltender and deflect shots; see how that works? We are also seeing a lot of odd man breakaways heading back to the net. Jake used to be so much better than Elliott on breakaways. He was good for stopping 2 out of every 3 and Elliott used to save maybe 4 out of 10. I wish they'd throw Husso in there just to see what your reactions are when you don't get the results you keep claiming we'll get. I really don't, because I value his future in this club more than you do I guess.

It's a team game. There's almost never a time where one guy is the main reason a team lost. A player's play is either contributing to a team's struggles, or it isn't. If it isn't, it's open to (fair) criticism.

I'm not sure if the "two guys screening the goalie" thing was intentional hyperbole or not, but that's rarely the case.

I'm also honestly not sure if you think keeping a "clear" crease is actually feasible in today's game. If a team wants to be there, you simply can't prevent it. No team can, and no team does. The league doesn't want teams to prevent it, and thus they've removed the tools that teams used to employ to that end.

You can't man-handle an opponent out of the crease, or heap abuse onto him until he wants to go. You also can't physically prevent him from going there to begin with. Players are constantly camped in front of and around goalies in today's game. Constantly. Expecting a team to prevent that is not a reasonable expectation. It simply can't be done. If an opponent isn't getting there, it's because they didn't want to be there, not because the defending team prevented it.

Teams deal with that by trying to prevent the puck from getting to the net to begin with (which many teams do by fronting defensively, getting bodies into shooting lanes, etc.), or by trying to out-man the opponent around the net to give them a numerical advantage (collapsing defenses), or by playing net-side positioning relatively straight-up and hoping (combined with a goalie's ability to control rebounds) that's enough.

For their part, goalies just have to be able to deal with it in some way...whether that's by finding ways to track the puck through traffic, or by anticipating shots and pressing their angles well to maximize net coverage. Rebound control and having a "feel" for the puck once it hits (helping with subsequent tracking and recovery) are important abilities as well. If you are not particularly good at any of those things, and preferably more than one, you are simply not a starting quality goaltender in today's NHL. Do you think Allen is particularly good at any of those things?

To be clear, I'm not trying to exonerate the defense (both by the defensemen and forwards) for their contributions to the Blues current struggles with this post, and I'm not interested in throwing Allen under the bus for any specific game (particularly this one, which I didn't see).

I just think that Allen's play over his last 70 or so starts has made it obvious that his personal struggles are part of the problem, and we should try to get to a point as a community where we can discuss his shortcomings for what they are without the implication that he's solely to blame for everything, or the implication that his struggles are generally not his fault.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

It's a team game. There's almost never a time where one guy is the main reason a team lost. A player's play is either contributing to a team's struggles, or it isn't. If it isn't, it's open to (fair) criticism.

I'm not sure if the "two guys screening the goalie" thing was intentional hyperbole or not, but that's rarely the case.

I'm also honestly not sure if you think keeping a "clear" crease is actually feasible in today's game. If a team wants to be there, you simply can't prevent it. No team can, and no team does. The league doesn't want teams to prevent it, and thus they've removed the tools that teams used to employ to that end.

You can't man-handle an opponent out of the crease, or heap abuse onto him until he wants to go. You also can't physically prevent him from going there to begin with. Players are constantly camped in front of and around goalies in today's game. Constantly. Expecting a team to prevent that is not a reasonable expectation. It simply can't be done. If an opponent isn't getting there, it's because they didn't want to be there, not because the defending team prevented it.

Teams deal with that by trying to prevent the puck from getting to the net to begin with (which many teams do by fronting defensively, getting bodies into shooting lanes, etc.), or by trying to out-man the opponent around the net to give them a numerical advantage (collapsing defenses), or by playing net-side positioning relatively straight-up and hoping (combined with a goalie's ability to control rebounds) that's enough.

For their part, goalies just have to be able to deal with it in some way...whether that's by finding ways to track the puck through traffic, or by anticipating shots and pressing their angles well to maximize net coverage. Rebound control and having a "feel" for the puck once it hits (helping with subsequent tracking and recovery) are important abilities as well. If you are not particularly good at any of those things, and preferably more than one, you are simply not a starting quality goaltender in today's NHL. Do you think Allen is particularly good at any of those things?

To be clear, I'm not trying to exonerate the defense (both by the defensemen and forwards) for their contributions to the Blues current struggles with this post, and I'm not interested in throwing Allen under the bus for any specific game (particularly this one, which I didn't see).

I just think that Allen's play over his last 70 or so starts has made it obvious that his personal struggles are part of the problem, and we should try to get to a point as a community where we can discuss his shortcomings for what they are without the implication that he's solely to blame for everything, or the implication that his struggles are generally not his fault.

I agree and am a part of the minority on this board that does not believe he should shoulder the amount of the blame he is getting. There is definitely something going on in his head beyond a lack of in game focus. It could be substance abuse, depression, a correlation between the two? When you see him during an interview there is something in his eyes that is missing, a certain spark, like he's trying to hide something that he doesn't want anyone else to see.

Most of us have either seen someone we love or care about or even someone we knew at some point casually dealing with personal demons. Some of us deal with those problems within ourselves on a daily basis. If this is indeed the case with Allen hopefully it has been identified by the organization and they are proactively doing all they can to help him.

When it comes to professional athletes it's easy for fans to look past what might be going on inside their heads because all we see is a guy making millions of dollars and living his dream, not realizing they are actually trapped in some kind of nightmare in their in own head.

Binnington getting a shot is more about hopefully giving this team a spark and allowing Jake to work on himself from a personal standpoint and not have to play 68-70 games on top of having to perform in the playoffs if we manage to get there.

 

[TruBlu]

It's a team game. There's almost never a time where one guy is the main reason a team lost. A player's play is either contributing to a team's struggles, or it isn't. If it isn't, it's open to (fair) criticism.

I'm not sure if the "two guys screening the goalie" thing was intentional hyperbole or not, but that's rarely the case.

I'm also honestly not sure if you think keeping a "clear" crease is actually feasible in today's game. If a team wants to be there, you simply can't prevent it. No team can, and no team does. The league doesn't want teams to prevent it, and thus they've removed the tools that teams used to employ to that end.

You can't man-handle an opponent out of the crease, or heap abuse onto him until he wants to go. You also can't physically prevent him from going there to begin with. Players are constantly camped in front of and around goalies in today's game. Constantly. Expecting a team to prevent that is not a reasonable expectation. It simply can't be done. If an opponent isn't getting there, it's because they didn't want to be there, not because the defending team prevented it.

Teams deal with that by trying to prevent the puck from getting to the net to begin with (which many teams do by fronting defensively, getting bodies into shooting lanes, etc.), or by trying to out-man the opponent around the net to give them a numerical advantage (collapsing defenses), or by playing net-side positioning relatively straight-up and hoping (combined with a goalie's ability to control rebounds) that's enough.

For their part, goalies just have to be able to deal with it in some way...whether that's by finding ways to track the puck through traffic, or by anticipating shots and pressing their angles well to maximize net coverage. Rebound control and having a "feel" for the puck once it hits (helping with subsequent tracking and recovery) are important abilities as well. If you are not particularly good at any of those things, and preferably more than one, you are simply not a starting quality goaltender in today's NHL. Do you think Allen is particularly good at any of those things?

To be clear, I'm not trying to exonerate the defense (both by the defensemen and forwards) for their contributions to the Blues current struggles with this post, and I'm not interested in throwing Allen under the bus for any specific game (particularly this one, which I didn't see).

I just think that Allen's play over his last 70 or so starts has made it obvious that his personal struggles are part of the problem, and we should try to get to a point as a community where we can discuss his shortcomings for what they are without the implication that he's solely to blame for everything, or the implication that his struggles are generally not his fault.

I understand you can't just keep a clear crease, but we have no one even getting shoulder to shoulder and creating havoc for the guy trying to create havoc for our goal tender. In many cases I see the guy camping out in front of the goaltender seems to get lost and have free reign. In any case, I believe it is a team game and have said several times now that Allen is not a star goalie, but I think he can get the job done behind a competent D, and probably will have to since I don't see any options right now with our cap. There just doesn't seem to be any real debate about what we can realistically do. Every GDT turns into an "Allen sucks" thread on every goal given up, whether it is or not, and I see a much bigger problem. I guess my defense of him and a few other players sometimes isn't so much of them as it is to try and put focus on other aspects or players who seem to get a complete pass when they are doing nothing, yet we find fault with guys like Tarasenko who is currently almost a point per game.

 

[Ranksu]

I understand you can't just keep a clear crease, but we have no one even getting shoulder to shoulder and creating havoc for the guy trying to create havoc for our goal tender. In many cases I see the guy camping out in front of the goaltender seems to get lost and have free reign. In any case, I believe it is a team game and have said several times now that Allen is not a star goalie, but I think he can get the job done behind a competent D, and probably will have to since I don't see any options right now with our cap. There just doesn't seem to be any real debate about what we can realistically do. Every GDT turns into an "Allen sucks" thread on every goal given up, whether it is or not, and I see a much bigger problem. I guess my defense of him and a few other players sometimes isn't so much of them as it is to try and put focus on other aspects or players who seem to get a complete pass when they are doing nothing, yet we find fault with guys like Tarasenko who is currently almost a point per game.

Allen might be good in other system, but not in Blues. Every goaltender who rely position and good rebound control has beat Allen.

 

[MissouriMook]

I understand you can't just keep a clear crease, but we have no one even getting shoulder to shoulder and creating havoc for the guy trying to create havoc for our goal tender. In many cases I see the guy camping out in front of the goaltender seems to get lost and have free reign.

Sometimes, this is a "careful what you wish for" situation. If your goalie is already having difficulty tracking pucks through screens and you have your defenders "getting shoulder to shoulder" with the net front guy, now you have two bodies for your goalie to have to track pucks through instead of just one.

 

[Majorityof1]

I came across this, and its a reminder that hockey players are people. Even bad players can be good people. This is a touching story of a gesture by Allen to honor a teammate's family member.

Allen supports teammate with Hockey Fights Cancer mask

Many of us, myself included, need to remember this when we start critiquing the person, not the player. I have seen people in this thread speculate about drug use and mental disorders. At the end of the day, Jake seems like a good person, even if his hockey skills are questioned.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I cam across this, and its a reminder that hockey players are people. Even bad players can be good people. This is a touching story of a gesture by Allen to honor a teammate's family member.

Allen supports teammate with Hockey Fights Cancer mask

Many of us, myself included, need to remember this when we start critiquing the person, not the player. I have seen people in this thread speculate about drug use and mental disorders. At the end of the day, Jake seems like a good person, even if his hockey skills are questioned.

I'll never root for a Blues player or coach to fail. Every time they put on the Bluenote, I want them to play well and get a solid win. If changes need to be made, I can accept that. But I will root for everyone that puts themselves on the line for the Bluenote.

 

[Ranksu]

I came across this, and its a reminder that hockey players are people. Even bad players can be good people. This is a touching story of a gesture by Allen to honor a teammate's family member.

Allen supports teammate with Hockey Fights Cancer mask

Many of us, myself included, need to remember this when we start critiquing the person, not the player. I have seen people in this thread speculate about drug use and mental disorders. At the end of the day, Jake seems like a good person, even if his hockey skills are questioned.

Haven't Allen met sport psychology?

I don't remember anybody saying Allen is drug user?

I dont judge off-ice things. Only how he performs at ice and Blues jersey. Its good and admirable he's doing his share for ill people and help them.

It doesnt make you bad human if you are average goaltender at NHL level.