Jake Allen 2018-19

[Falco Lombardi]

Speaking only for myself, the reason I harp on the system more than Allen is that's the one that can realistically be fixed right now.

We're stuck with Allen. There's no trading him for a better goalie at this point IMO. If you want to counter with Ville Husso, I'm not opposed to going down that route, but I'd certainly like to see the system fixed before I thrust him in there. Allen is a head case. No denying that. He's got a greater variance between his good and bad than any goalie i can remember watching.

But that's never been the case for the group in front of him, and I'm particularly talking about the defense core. I've never seen Alex Pietrangelo play this poorly. Same goes for Parayko. And it's not just those two. There's people saying the best defenseman so far is Jordan Schmaltz and they might be right! That should sound major alarm bells.

I don't buy the confidence thing because this is who Allen has always been. He was this last year at the start when they were tops in the league, he was this when they sent him home from a road trip, this is who he is and this was never a problem before.

If you could wave a magic wand and swap him out with someone better, sure let's do it. But the same group of players who have pretty much all played with him for the last couple years suddenly aren't playing near as well in front of him. You CAN change a defensive system

So let's figure out what the independent variable in this experiment is that's caused the change because, for better or (frequently) worse, Jake Allen is a constant.

 

[SanBlom]

Is Allen the perfect candidate for a change of scenery or has he gotten THAT bad? I haven't been able to watch him this year but it sounds brutal. It's a shame because he was one of my favorites when he came into the league...

 

[David Dennison]

Is Allen the perfect candidate for a change of scenery or has he gotten THAT bad? I haven't been able to watch him this year but it sounds brutal. It's a shame because he was one of my favorites when he came into the league...

It's a matter of playing a full 60 minutes with him and responding to broken plays. His angles are generally solid, he is big and agile, good sight of the puck, but he a wild card when a play breaks down in front of him.

 

[WeWentBlues]

The first goal Wednesday night was textbook Allen. You can't let that go in. It's no coincidence that the Blues looked like absolute crap in the 1st period after that goal. I am a firm believer in momentum. That goal was deflating.

Too many moments like that for Jake.

 

[MissouriMook]

It's a matter of playing a full 60 minutes with him and responding to broken plays. His angles are generally solid, he is big and agile, good sight of the puck, but he a wild card when a play breaks down in front of him.

Regarding the bolded, I would argue the opposite. I feel like one of his biggest issues on low danger chances is that he is often out of position from overplaying a previous shot attempt, or simply off his angle on shots that should be relatively easy to stop. This seems especially problematic on his short side.

 

[67Blues]

The question is has Yeo changed the defensive system to try and shore up what he perceived as shortcomings to Jakes game, and as a result, he's messed up the entire situation? It wouldn't be the first time a coach has tried to alter the team's system to help out a goalie.

 

[David Dennison]

Regarding the bolded, I would argue the opposite. I feel like one of his biggest issues on low danger chances is that he is often out of position from overplaying a previous shot attempt, or simply off his angle on shots that should be relatively easy to stop. This seems especially problematic on his short side.

Idk, I wouldn't call those situations "low danger" chances. Maybe you could say his rebound control is an issue, and it kind of is, but if our defense's play was as solid as it was 2+ years ago, those first chances wouldn't be as dangerous as they currently are, and those second chances wouldn't be as big an issue.

 

[MissouriMook]

Idk, I wouldn't call those situations "low danger" chances. Maybe you could say his rebound control is an issue, and it kind of is, but if our defense's play was as solid as it was 2+ years ago, those first chances wouldn't be as dangerous as they currently are, and those second chances wouldn't be as big an issue.

Perhaps "low danger" is the wrong way to describe them since I'm not entirely sure how such classifications are used by statistical reporting sites, but I've certainly seen Allen surrender more than his fair share of goals from outside the home plate area either because his attempt to stop a previous shot has left himself out of position to properly defend his net or because he was simply off his angle to begin with. In this sense, I feel like my point still stands.

 

[DatDude44]

The first goal Wednesday night was textbook Allen. You can't let that go in. It's no coincidence that the Blues looked like absolute crap in the 1st period after that goal. I am a firm believer in momentum. That goal was deflating.

Too many moments like that for Jake.

I’d say he probly wants that one back. But honestly a backhander like that from where he shot it on a 2 on 1 at high speed is extremely difficult to read as a goalie. I feel like it’s gotten to the point where if Allen gives up a legitimate goal, we’re taking off and berating him, meanwhile Bobrovsky or Rinne gives up the same goal and it’s perfectly fine.

Imo Allen hasn’t been that bad this year, I think the team has just been awful in terms of turnovers leading to odd man rushes and the occasional D-Zone coverage breakdown that leads to a GA on top of ridiculous bounces/re-directs and of course Paraykos blunder with 9 seconds left.

I’d be very very surprised if we don’t right the ship and all of a sudden Allen ends up looking like fringe top 15 goaltender in this league

 

[David Dennison]

Perhaps "low danger" is the wrong way to describe them since I'm not entirely sure how such classifications are used by statistical reporting sites, but I've certainly seen Allen surrender more than his fair share of goals from outside the home plate area either because his attempt to stop a previous shot has left himself out of position to properly defend his net or because he was simply off his angle to begin with. In this sense, I feel like my point still stands.

That's fair, but I'm also one who doesn't get all over him for being too far out of the net. IMO, those are goals that look worse than they might actually be. Hell, Hutton was much more aggressive in his positioning than Allen was last year, he just didn't get burned as much. As I said, I think rebound control is a fair criticism of Allen, but there is also a strong element of luck on those second chance opportunities.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I’d say he probly wants that one back. But honestly a backhander like that from where he shot it on a 2 on 1 at high speed is extremely difficult to read as a goalie. I feel like it’s gotten to the point where if Allen gives up a legitimate goal, we’re taking off and berating him, meanwhile Bobrovsky or Rinne gives up the same goal and it’s perfectly fine.

Imo Allen hasn’t been that bad this year, I think the team has just been awful in terms of turnovers leading to odd man rushes and the occasional D-Zone coverage breakdown that leads to a GA on top of ridiculous bounces/re-directs and of course Paraykos blunder with 9 seconds left.

I’d be very very surprised if we don’t right the ship and all of a sudden Allen ends up looking like fringe top 15 goaltender in this league

Allen needs to worry about the shooter here. I'd hardly classify this as a 2 on 1. Domi literally only has one play to make. Allen has to stop that. Especially in the first minute of the game.

 

[DatDude44]

Allen needs to worry about the shooter here. I'd hardly classify this as a 2 on 1. Domi literally only has one play to make. Allen has to stop that. Especially in the first minute of the game.
View attachment 148137

I didn’t mean that as he’s worried about the man w/o the puck. My point is a backhander at high speed from that area of the ice is a very hard shot to read off his stick, puck could’ve gone anywhere and u don’t know how quick. Ask any goalie you know and they’ll tell you a backhander like that is not an easy save to make. It’s easy to freeze frame a play like that but in reality it was high speed play that started as a 2 on 1 and then the back pressure came.

My point is that’s a much more difficult save then it looks, it’s not a save that every goalie in the league consistently makes except whipping boy Allen. That’s all.

If we clean up our D-Z especially our decision making w/ the puck in our own zone, we’ll be just fine

 

[ChuckLefley]

It was a goal he needs to save, but I do agree that the situation makes it tougher than a backhand from a guy standing still five feet in front of the net.

Has Allen been great? No. Has he been good enough that we could have a winning record right now? Yes. This is a full team and staff issue, not a one player issue.

 

[Spektre]

It was a goal he needs to save, but I do agree that the situation makes it tougher than a backhand from a guy standing still five feet in front of the net.

Has Allen been great? No. Has he been good enough that we could have a winning record right now? Yes. This is a full team and staff issue, not a one player issue.

There's no doubt Allen hasn't been the only issue 6 games into the season. I never said anything close to that in the first post of this thread. My points were that I was surprised Army didn't find a way to move Allen, and that Allen is the weakest link on this roster.

We all see Bouwmeester's demise. He's one of 6 D playing nightly (unless Yeo dresses 7 again) and one of two that's always on the ice. There have plenty of defense lapses by Pietrangelo and every other D that's played. Is the defense a big reason the Blues have 1 win? Yes. There's only 1 starting goalie. Thus why Allen is the weakest link on the roster.

 

[Spektre]

There are actually 7 goals so far I take issue with Allen on but I'll only show 6.


This is game 1 vs the Jets. The game is out of hand at this point but the mental issues with Allen show up again. There's no excuse for the backhand from there to beat Allen, yet it does.

 

[Spektre]

The wrist shot isn't kicked out by Allen's left leg like you would think. He actually makes the save with his right leg and kicks it to the middle of the ice. On the close up you can see Allen's left pad clear with no puck. The puck at that point is sitting on his right pad on the ice and he kicks it directly to the Hawk.

 

[Spektre]

This is another crucial goal. It's a wrist shot from damn near the blue line. Allen sees the puck the entire way. He coughs up the rebound instead of catching it or smothering it. Pietrangelo looks horrible on this play as well but if there's no rebound Pietrangelo doesn't get worked by Toews.

 

[Spektre]

This is another defensive gaffe but Allen falls down with Bennett going to the net. Bennett actually never even shoots the puck. Allen is flopping like a beached whale. If he stays on his skates he has a good chance to stop Neal.

 

[Spektre]

Again, a wrist shot from on top of the circle that Allen sees the entire way. He should get an assist on the play as he kicks it directly to the Hawk. Yet again Allen is down on the ice.

 

[Spektre]

I don't have to put too much explanation in this one.

I honestly find fault with Allen on the Habs' 3rd goal as well. Even though Parayko clearly screwed up Allen can't let that poke of the puck beat him.

 

[Spektre]

The Blues have played 6 games. That's 6 goals that Allen is at fault for. There are certainly defensive breakdowns but Allen makes mistakes as well on every single one.

 

[ChuckLefley]

You’re trying really hard.

First one: first it’s impossible to kick the rebound to the opposite side, he makes a butterfly save and the puck goes in front due to the angle, not good, but the real issue is the fact that it’s 2 vs. 3 and two of the Blues are just watching and not doing anything.

Second one: The shot deflects off of someone (O’Reilly, I beleive) and changes direction, causing him to have to make a last second reflex save.

The third one: Bennet makes a nice move and Allen goes down to make the save but Bennet loses the puck. The real issue is that Neal comes down the slot all alone.

Fourth one: Shot to the far post, a save has to put a rebound out to the other side, it’s why you shoot to the far post in a situation like that. Once again, the D let’s the Hawks player get the puck and shoot it.

Fifth one: Bad goal, but much more difficult than people like you think.

Sixth one: Let’s see, stupid pass gives the puck to the Habs in the most dangerous spot on the ice. The shot gets deflected to the side and the player switches up to backhand it up into the net as Allen butterfly slides over. He played it perfectly. A highlight reel save is the only way he makes that save. Of course if Parayko doesn’t make the worst possible play he can make in that situation, it’s not even a save opportunity.

Six goals that you claim are all on Allen and someone with actual goalie coaching and playing experience shows you how they actually aren’t all on Allen.

Anything else?

 

[EastonBlues22]

Speaking only for myself, the reason I harp on the system more than Allen is that's the one that can realistically be fixed right now.

We're stuck with Allen. There's no trading him for a better goalie at this point IMO. If you want to counter with Ville Husso, I'm not opposed to going down that route, but I'd certainly like to see the system fixed before I thrust him in there. Allen is a head case. No denying that. He's got a greater variance between his good and bad than any goalie i can remember watching.

But that's never been the case for the group in front of him, and I'm particularly talking about the defense core. I've never seen Alex Pietrangelo play this poorly. Same goes for Parayko. And it's not just those two. There's people saying the best defenseman so far is Jordan Schmaltz and they might be right! That should sound major alarm bells.

I don't buy the confidence thing because this is who Allen has always been. He was this last year at the start when they were tops in the league, he was this when they sent him home from a road trip, this is who he is and this was never a problem before.

If you could wave a magic wand and swap him out with someone better, sure let's do it. But the same group of players who have pretty much all played with him for the last couple years suddenly aren't playing near as well in front of him. You CAN change a defensive system

So let's figure out what the independent variable in this experiment is that's caused the change because, for better or (frequently) worse, Jake Allen is a constant.

I can understand where this is coming from, but we've seen Allen play at a higher level than this for extended stretches before. He was very solid three years ago, and at the very least serviceable two years ago, so I disagree that this is who he has always been.

If you're going to expect better play from everyone, and rightfully so, I don't think it's unfair to expect improvement from him as well. He might not have the same ceiling that other players on the team have, but that doesn't mean there isn't reasonable room for significant improvement.

 

[Tryblot]

I can understand where this is coming from, but we've seen Allen play at a higher level than this for extended stretches before. He was very solid three years ago, and at the very least serviceable two years ago, so I disagree that this is who he has always been.

If you're going to expect better play from everyone, and rightfully so, I don't think it's unfair to expect improvement from him as well. He might not have the same ceiling that other players on the team have, but that doesn't mean there isn't reasonable room for significant improvement.

He has always been inconsistent. I'm sure some point this year he will on a streak that makes it look like he's putting it all together but at the end of the day, this is who he is. I mean sure. he has the opportunity to put it all together and become that goalie we saw in the Wild series but he is still making the same mistakes he was before that series even happened.

Before the season started when everyone was giving their predictions it all ended with "but Allen has to finally turn it around" or something to that effect. We all knew this was a make or break year for him because he's had so many opportunities in the past and has done nothing with them. If we all knew this was his make or break year then he absolutely must know his job is on the line and if this is how he performs with pressure when his job is on the line then you're never going to get the goalie you need consistently come playoff time. He's playing for his job, his career, his money, his family, the fame and glory - it's all on the line right now and the world knows it and this is the performance we get from him. IMO, if you're still letting in a weak goal a game, regardless of how the defense has played for you, it's already over.

 

[EastonBlues22]

He has always been inconsistent. I'm sure some point this year he will on a streak that makes it look like he's putting it all together but at the end of the day, this is who he is. I mean sure. he has the opportunity to put it all together and become that goalie we saw in the Wild series but he is still making the same mistakes he was before that series even happened.

Before the season started when everyone was giving their predictions it all ended with "but Allen has to finally turn it around" or something to that effect. We all knew this was a make or break year for him because he's had so many opportunities in the past and has done nothing with them. If we all knew this was his make or break year then he absolutely must know his job is on the line and if this is how he performs with pressure when his job is on the line then you're never going to get the goalie you need consistently come playoff time. He's playing for his job, his career, his money, his family, the fame and glory - it's all on the line right now and the world knows it and this is the performance we get from him. IMO, if you're still letting in a weak goal a game, regardless of how the defense has played for you, it's already over.

Yes, he's inconsistent. So is every player, to some degree or another. Not a year goes by that the label isn't applied even to the best players we have.

Tarasenko had a 17 game stretch last year where he only scored three goals...that's one fifth of the season where he was producing at a 15 goal pace. He had another 10 game stretch on top of that where he scored in just one game (though it was 2 goals)...another significant stretch of underwhelming production. That's one third of the season where he was scoring goals at a 3rd liner's pace. Not surprisingly, he was getting a lot of shade thrown at him during those stretches.

He still finished 23rd in the league in goals scored, because he potted 28 goals in the other 53 games he played.

Pietrangelo had a 13 game stretch where he only put up 2 points, a 13 point pace, and went -6. He received a lot of flak during that stretch as well. That was a sixth of his season, but it hardly defined his season.

Virtually every player has a significant cold stretch every single year. Usually more than one. It's the nature of the game, as much as we sometimes like to pretend that it isn't.

Anyway, we're six games in. I think it's a little early to be writing off anyone's season.