Jake Allen 2018-19

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Tryblot

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Let's play devil's advocate briefly... If a poor goaltending performance can affect how defence plays, in that they alter their game slightly in an attempt to better compensate for said goaltender's faults, exposing exploitable tendancies for a good opposing team to take advantage of - could the opposite be true as well?

Could a good goaltender who has lost faith in his defence, question whether or not his defence has taken away the pass in a 2 on 1, hesistate a split second therefore exposing more net in attempt to cover both the pass and the shot?

Or for a defence that doesn't clear the crease, allow himself to shift slightly to better cover for deflections from the attacker that shouldn't be allowed to camp in the blue paint by a dcore, thereby exposing more openings for a shot from the puck carrier?

How about the default complaint against Allen - that he's constantly out of position... Could it be that he over commits, to take away space from the attackers, because his defence isn't doing it? The back door is left wide open, but if the defence was committed to taking away space, Allen wouldn't attempt to do so himself (however poorly and ill-advised said actions are)?:sarcasm:

I'll admit seeing Allen swim/flail out of position attempting to make saves that would be routine had he been in position frustrates me - when he's on, he's absolutely incredible. So, what if it's not as one sided as most of us on the Board make it out to be? How many of you have stopped to consider the flipside of what a bad/poorly performing goalie does to his defence in front of him?

Brian Elliott. Carter Hutton.
 

Brockon

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Brian Elliott. Carter Hutton.

Most fans on HFB freely admit that the Blues played differently in front of Hutton last season, so hardly a counter point to my suggestion.

Elliott was/is hit and miss behind Philly currently. He was great in his first and last season in St Louis and average in between.

My post is made moreso to point out that there are other possibilities playing into Allen's poor numbers, especially given that the team itself plays a really good first 40 mins most nights and completely falls apart in the 3rd period.
 
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Tryblot

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Most fans on HFB freely admit that the Blues played differently in front of Hutton last season, so hardly a counter point to my suggestion.

Elliott was/is hit and miss behind Philly currently. He was great in his first and last season in St Louis and average in between.

My post is made moreso to point out that there are other possibilities playing into Allen's poor numbers, especially given that the team itself plays a really good first 40 mins most nights and completely falls apart in the 3rd period.

I dont buy it. Allen is just a bad goalie. He's been outplayed by two 'backup' goalies. Is that on him or the team in front of him? It should be pretty obvious.
 
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542365

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Most fans on HFB freely admit that the Blues played differently in front of Hutton last season, so hardly a counter point to my suggestion.

Elliott was/is hit and miss behind Philly currently. He was great in his first and last season in St Louis and average in between.

My post is made moreso to point out that there are other possibilities playing into Allen's poor numbers, especially given that the team itself plays a really good first 40 mins most nights and completely falls apart in the 3rd period.
1.56/.940
2.28/.907(lockout year)
1.96/.922
2.26/.917
2.07/.930

Brian Elliott was not average any season he was in St. Louis. His worst "season" was in the lockout shortened year where he only had 24 games. Every other season he was well above average to elite. Jake's best season as a Blue would be Brian's second worst. The two don't even belong in the same conversation. Elliott was a vastly superior goalie in his time here. Hell, even the much maligned Jaro Halak had better numbers in St. Louis than Jake has had. We shipped those two off in favor of Jake when he is quite clearly the worst of the three. The reason Allen has bad numbers is because he's a bad goaltender. Let's stop trying to read more into it. He's been outplayed by his "backup" every season. He doesn't deserve all of these excuses. He has shown over and over and over again who he is.
 

MissouriMook

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Send him to Detroit for Jimmy Howard or to Jersey for Cory Schneider. We’ll have to give up something good to make it happen, but I can’t stomach the thought of wasting another season trying to figure out if he is the guy. I don’t care if the external option is any better at this point. I’d settle for different and take my chances.
 

DeuceNine

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The modern goaltender, with the size of the pads and the size of most goaltenders (6-1 to 6-4), is a position based on geometry, science and a bit of luck. Get in the proper position, stay quiet and, as Lundqvist has said in several interviews, hope the puck hits you.

Jake diverts from this fundamental style far too often so, in a sense, every aspect of his advanced stats are attributable to and a predictable result of his style. He gives up better chances to the initial shooters b/c he shows those shooters more net.

Put another way, while all goaltenders rely on a tad of luck, Jake's style makes him even more reliant on luck. He is like a Blackjack player who constantly hits on 15.....he'll have some hot streaks but, in the end, he won't be consistent and the odds will catch up to him.
He plays like Rinne but without the positioning or athleticism. Not to mention fire.
 

Ranksu

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Does it solve the Blues goaltending and defensive problem if Yeo is fired? Which is easier to fix, bad goaltender who doesn't fit in our system then totally different aproach how to defend?

I don't like Yeo as coach and how he value vets over kids. He's going to destroy some promising prospect with his style.

But saying we get new coach it would fix Allen's problem, no, it won't. It will excist Still and if Army can't see that we're pretty screwed in bigger Picture.
 
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Ranksu

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I looked up goaltender whoo has played 6 game or more. There was 28 goaltenders who has played that many games. Bottom of list was Jake Allen #26, only worse SV% has Bobrovsky and Smith. GAA Allen is 3rd worst of NHL.

NHL.com - Stats



I view Allen shouldn't play in Blues anymore. Trade him and try to get back goaltender who rely his game playing position and have decent rebound control. We can't wait when Husso is ready for NHL.
 
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Brian39

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Where are all the Allen fanboys?

@Brian39 @TheDizee

I started ignoring this thread when a frame by frame breakdown of Allen's 'soft goals' included two abject lies about how a goal went in. The first claims that a rebound went off Allen's short side pad and complained about how Allen found a way to still kick it out to the center. In reality, it very clearly went of the knee roll of Allen's far side pad, which is exactly why the rebound kicked to the slot. The next criticized Allen for not catching/smothering the shot because he saw it the entire way in. Anyone who watched the replay would find that to be very odd analysis since the puck was tipped on its way in and never even made it to Allen. It literally hit Toews on its way in, and Toews then buried the rebound that came off his own skate. I'm fine debating how Allen should/could have played that better, but there is no sense having a debate with someone who is willfully lying about how a goal was scored.

Here's the recap of the Hawks game. The ones I'm talking about are at about 2:45 and 4:05.

This thread isn't a discussion when people are flat out lying about how goals are going in and calling people "fanboys" when their opinion is that Allen is playing like an average to below average goalie and hasn't been the worst player on the team. I'm not going to discuss goaltending with people who are editing clips down to misleading screenshots to support their narrative.

There is no discussion going on when that is the conversation.
 
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ChuckLefley

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I broke down each goal, but the poster decided to mosey along. That told me everything I needed to know.

On another note, anyone who refers to people with different opinions as “fanboys” or “haters” is just announcing that they are biased based on ignorance.
 

Blueston

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We've had some defensive coverage issues so far this season, but sure seemed tonight every time we made a mistake it ended up in back of net.
 

Frenzy31

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Allen’s issue is that the Blues need to play mistake free hockey.

He has not made any difference making saves this year. Every game you need to have your goalie bale you out 1-2 times and Allen just isn’t doing that. He is making the saves he needs to make, but the he isn’t making the saves to cover up the mistakes. All top Oakes are able to make those saves.

The other players have lost faith in him. It is one of the reasons we turtle on the 3rd instead of putting the foot down.

I have been a supporter of Allen. But I can’t do it anymore.
 
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TruBlu

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Allen’s issue is that the Blues need to play mistake free hockey.

He has not made any difference making saves this year. Every game you need to have your goalie bale you out 1-2 times and Allen just isn’t doing that. He is making the saves he needs to make, but the he isn’t making the saves to cover up the mistakes. All top Oakes are able to make those saves.

The other players have lost faith in him. It is one of the reasons we turtle on the 3rd instead of putting the foot down.

I have been a supporter of Allen. But I can’t do it anymore.
I don't think the blues need to make mistake free hockey, but the mistakes this season tend to be a bad turnover right in the crease or to a guy in prime position to score. Jake has made plenty of game saving stops, just like the one before he got taken out last night, but no one gives him credit for them, they only point out the ones that go in. I'm not saying Jake has been adequate, he hasn't, but he's not as bad as he's made out to be. He gave up 3 goals, two from Kane, who has been lighting up every goalie they've played. He's pretty much the reason why Chicago isn't at the bottom of the division. We'd probably be 3-0 against the Hawks right now if not for Kane's play against us so far.
 

Frenzy31

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That second goal is an example of a game changing save. It was a bad turnover, but he needs to stop that one.

As you say, not every goal is his fault, but if he isn’t making game changing save, then he can’t let in softies. He isn’t playing well right now.

If he wa an adiquit goalie, we would be above 500 now.
 
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Falco Lombardi

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In his defense, Jake’s last save was a game changer before he got hurt.

I would entertain a trade depending on the cost, but I think any goalie that represents a real upgrade will be cost prohibitive though.
 

Spektre

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I broke down each goal, but the poster decided to mosey along. That told me everything I needed to know.

On another note, anyone who refers to people with different opinions as “fanboys” or “haters” is just announcing that they are biased based on ignorance.


I finally understand now. Allen sucks because of lies and people using terms like fanboys.

I could post Kane’s goal from last night where Allen was so deep in the net some fans thought he was in the parking lot. But maybe you two could spin it around it was actually the D’s fault?

Bottom line is Allen sucks. He’s most likely the worst starting goalie in the league and certainly worse than a lot of backups.

But there’s no reason for you guys to read any of this because, reasons.
 

ChuckLefley

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I finally understand now. Allen sucks because of lies and people using terms like fanboys.

I could post Kane’s goal from last night where Allen was so deep in the net some fans thought he was in the parking lot. But maybe you two could spin it around it was actually the D’s fault?

Bottom line is Allen sucks. He’s most likely the worst starting goalie in the league and certainly worse than a lot of backups.

But there’s no reason for you guys to read any of this because, reasons.
Exactly the response I expected, go on the attack and try to get as far away as possible from the fact that I refuted everhing you said about those goals using using actual goaltending knowledge,

Bottom line is that you know nothin about goaltending.

Enjoy being angry the day after we blew out the Hawks.
 

Thallis

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That second goal is an example of a game changing save. It was a bad turnover, but he needs to stop that one.

As you say, not every goal is his fault, but if he isn’t making game changing save, then he can’t let in softies. He isn’t playing well right now.

If he wa an adiquit goalie, we would be above 500 now.

It didn't need to be a game changing save, it was a routine one that leaked in. The shot wasn't particularly good. It was a riser at his chest and shoulder level that managed to squeak in through his arm. The vast majority of goalies have that save 9/10 times.
 

Spektre

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Exactly the response I expected, go on the attack and try to get as far away as possible from the fact that I refuted everhing you said about those goals using using actual goaltending knowledge,

Bottom line is that you know nothin about goaltending.

Enjoy being angry the day after we blew out the Hawks.


Attack? lol

By saying Allen is the worst starting goalie in the league that equates to attacking you? I guess pointing out Allen's horrible goal last night equates to somehow I'm mad too?? :popcorn:
 

Tryblot

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The last 'game changing save' he made before he got hurt wasn't even that good. Sure it was a cross crease one timer but if you look at the replay the Chicago player put it back to the middle of the net. Every goalie would have made that save due to the placement of the shot, it just looked nice because he had to slide across.
 
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