Jaden Schwartz??? Where are you?

[The Note]

To try and get this train back on the tracks...

Schwartz looks to have no confidence out there, which isn’t entirely surprising given how the season has gone for him, but he just doesn’t look like the same guy he’s been in years past. When he shoots it’s either wide or a labeled for the goalies chest, but often time he will try and force a pass than putting one on net. He’s still pretty tenacious on the forecheck but if he wins the puck back he looks like he has no idea what to do with it. I’ve pretty much given up hope on him figuring it out this year which is a shame because this team could be super dangerous with a good Jaden Schwartz

 

[EastonBlues22]

This was forever ago, but I remember back in the day when a big chunk of the Blues fanbase here had all but given up on Tarasenko because he just didn't look like the same player and he was mired deep in a crappy season.

It was so long ago that I can't remember how that story ends, but I'm sure they were right. It's a shame we weren't able to move on from him before the rest of the league figured out he was trash. Now we're just stuck with him.

Let's not make the same mistake with Schwartz. Guy will clearly never be the player he was.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

This was forever ago, but I remember back in the day when a big chunk of the Blues fanbase here had all but given up on Tarasenko because he just didn't look like the same player and he was mired deep in a crappy season.

It was so long ago that I can't remember how that story ends, but I'm sure they were right. It's a shame we weren't able to move on from him before the rest of the league figured out he was trash. Now we're just stuck with him.

Let's not make the same mistake with Schwartz. Guy will clearly never be the player he was.

I enjoy the occasional appearance of cranky sarcastic, not incorrect, Easton.

 

[Spektre]

This was forever ago, but I remember back in the day when a big chunk of the Blues fanbase here had all but given up on Tarasenko because he just didn't look like the same player and he was mired deep in a crappy season.

It was so long ago that I can't remember how that story ends, but I'm sure they were right. It's a shame we weren't able to move on from him before the rest of the league figured out he was trash. Now we're just stuck with him.

Let's not make the same mistake with Schwartz. Guy will clearly never be the player he was.

I don’t recall a massive call for trading Tarasenko but merely analyzing the return if he was traded. I don’t see a big call for trading Schwartz either. Tarasenko was streaky early on, and wasn’t producing a lot, but he never looked as off as Schwartz does.

It’s not just that Schwartz isn’t producing but it’s more to how he’s playing. I wish I wouldn’t have deleted the SJ game now because there was plenty to break down.

Almost every time he gets the puck in the offensive zone he’s doing something wrong. His passing is off. He’s making passes when he has good to great shooting opportunities. He’s holding onto the puck too long when he needs to make a quick play. He’s trying to hurry the play when he has time. He’s not going to the net enough.

He simply looks really bad and most of it seems mental. It’s hard to make sense out of because at this point he’s a veteran. Will he rebound to the player Blues fans expect? Nobody knows for sure but eventually you would expect he would improve from his current level of play.

If he doesn’t improve by the end of the year I wouldn’t mind seeing what kind of LHD return he would bring in a trade. One possibility is Schwartz to Boston for LHD help instead of Schenn like what was speculated about earlier this season. Schenn would have to resign in that circumstance of course.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I don’t recall a massive call for trading Tarasenko but merely analyzing the return if he was traded. I don’t see a big call for trading Schwartz either. Tarasenko was streaky early on, and wasn’t producing a lot, but he never looked as off as Schwartz does.

It’s not just that Schwartz isn’t producing but it’s more to how he’s playing. I wish I wouldn’t have deleted the SJ game now because there was plenty to break down.

Almost every time he gets the puck in the offensive zone he’s doing something wrong. His passing is off. He’s making passes when he has good to great shooting opportunities. He’s holding onto the puck too long when he needs to make a quick play. He’s trying to hurry the play when he has time. He’s not going to the net enough.

He simply looks really bad and most of it seems mental. It’s hard to make sense out of because at this point he’s a veteran. Will he rebound to the player Blues fans expect? Nobody knows for sure but eventually you would expect he would improve from his current level of play.

If he doesn’t improve by the end of the year I wouldn’t mind seeing what kind of LHD return he would bring in a trade. One possibility is Schwartz to Boston for LHD help instead of Schenn like what was speculated about earlier this season. Schenn would have to resign in that circumstance of course.

There were a number of people here who were very vocal about wanting to trade him, and a number of the opinions about him were a lot more emotional than "merely analyzing the return" suggests. I have no particular interest in pulling specific quotes and potentially singling out posters. It's not hard to go back through and read the comments here and on the trade board if you think I'm overstating things.

I don't dispute that Schwartz is in his own head at this point. It happens to all of us, and elite athletes are certainly not immune to it. I think you're overstating things a bit by saying that almost everything he does is wrong, but hyperbole is the way of the internet I guess. What I dispute is the notion that Schwartz's career is "done," or that he's always sucked, or at times the notion of him being "injury prone," or a lot of the other hyperbolic narratives that are constantly popping up here and there.

He's having a rough year. Chances are excellent that he'll pull out of it eventually. It might be this year, or it might not be, but there's no good reason to think that his career has fallen off a cliff at age 26/27 just because he's shooting at 1/3 the rate he normally does and it's messing with his mental game.

Unless you think you're getting McAvoy from Boston, and the Blues wouldn't be, you're getting screwed if you're dealing "normal" Schwartz there for anything they have at LHD. What's wrong with just waiting for him to rebound and be the best LW on the team again? Even if you re-sign Schenn and convert him to wing full time, it's hard to make a credible argument that Schwartz shouldn't still be one of our top 3 wingers, and he would still be the one with the best all-around game for my money.

He's a two-way first line player who normally is quite capable of driving the offense on his own line. There was a time in the not so distance past that a good number of people here thought he was a better and more important player to the team than Tarasenko. The Blues aren't exactly flush with guys like that in their system, and hoping they'll just magically conjure another one to replace him is wishful thinking. They can't pull off a ROR/Schenn trade every year. If you deal him, you're almost certainly going to regret it.

I don't understand why it's so **** hard for fans to just appreciate what they have. They should know better than anyone else exactly how important their players are and what they bring to the team. So many people just seem incapable of remembering or appreciating anything that isn't happening now, or at most in the last half-year or so.

We live in a time when immediate gratification is the expectation, and patience/attention spans are becoming more and more underdeveloped. I don't know about you, but nothing is a more constant reminder of that to me than talking with people on the internet.

 

[Spektre]

There were a number of people here who were very vocal about wanting to trade him, and a number of the opinions about him were a lot more emotional than "merely analyzing the return" suggests. I have no particular interest in pulling specific quotes and potentially singling out posters. It's not hard to go back through and read the comments here and on the trade board if you think I'm overstating things.

I don't dispute that Schwartz is in his own head at this point. It happens to all of us, and elite athletes are certainly not immune to it. I think you're overstating things a bit by saying that almost everything he does is wrong, but hyperbole is the way of the internet I guess. What I dispute is the notion that Schwartz's career is "done," or that he's always sucked, or at times the notion of him being "injury prone," or a lot of the other hyperbolic narratives that are constantly popping up here and there.

He's having a rough year. Chances are excellent that he'll pull out of it eventually. It might be this year, or it might not be, but there's no good reason to think that his career has fallen off a cliff at age 26/27 just because he's shooting at 1/3 the rate he normally does and it's messing with his mental game.

Unless you think you're getting McAvoy from Boston, and the Blues wouldn't be, you're getting screwed if you're dealing "normal" Schwartz there for anything they have at LHD. What's wrong with just waiting for him to rebound and be the best LW on the team again? Even if you re-sign Schenn and convert him to wing full time, it's hard to make a credible argument that Schwartz shouldn't still be one of our top 3 wingers, and he would still be the one with the best all-around game for my money.

He's a two-way first line player who normally is quite capable of driving the offense on his own line. There was a time in the not so distance past that a good number of people here thought he was a better and more important player to the team than Tarasenko. The Blues aren't exactly flush with guys like that in their system, and hoping they'll just magically conjure another one to replace him is wishful thinking. They can't pull off a ROR/Schenn trade every year. If you deal him, you're almost certainly going to regret it.

I don't understand why it's so **** hard for fans to just appreciate what they have. They should know better than anyone else exactly how important their players are and what they bring to the team. So many people just seem incapable of remembering or appreciating anything that isn't happening now, or at most in the last half-year or so.

We live in a time when immediate gratification is the expectation, and patience/attention spans are becoming more and more underdeveloped. I don't know about you, but nothing is a more constant reminder of that to me than talking with people on the internet.

Solid points all around and hopefully you're not lumping me in with the instant gratification crowd. I was never in favor of trading Tarasenko but if the team would have continued as a dumpster fire it seemed something the organization was mulling over. I never thought Schwartz was on the same level as Tarasenko because they are on different levels skill wise and always have been. A lot of fans (I have a best friend included in this) love Schwartz to death and saw him being better than Tarasenko because they watched the compete level of Schwartz vs Tarasenko. That's certainly a factor when it comes to hockey players but it's very rare when the most talented players have the most drive or compete level. They don't typically have the same compete level because they rely more on their skill.

I also stated I expect Schwartz to come out of his current funk but at what level remains to be seen obviously. To your point of bringing him back as a top 6 LW next season is fine and more so if he regains his form. My thought process was more from what the organization might look at. It seems they certainly thought about Schenn to Boston (I'm guessing for LHD help since a trade never happened).

It's a funny position and here's why. Do I like watching the Blues win? Yes. My wife is a pretty big Blues fan but she doesn't get into it as deeply as I do. She can't understand why just being a fan and enjoying some success (like making the playoffs) isn't enough. I did that merry-go-round for 25 years straight and while I do enjoy watching the Blues win the reality part of my brain sees what lies ahead in the playoffs. Could this roster catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, anything is possible. It's just unlikely and I can't fathom that anyone, fan or not, can realistically think otherwise. I'm also trying to project next year and beyond with the direction of the franchise and I don't see things getting a lot better over the next 3-4 years. That's really this roster's sweet spot for making a push and there's not enough top end talent in my opinion. So even after seeing this turnaround I would have preferred the dumpster fire to continue if, and there's always that proverbial *if, it's for the betterment of the organization overall, even if that means 2,3, or 4 years from now. Who knows though, I'm sure the roster will look a lot different in 3 years so it's impossible to guess.

So yeah I'd love to see Schwartz back to his old self next year on the Blues. There's also holes to fill on defense and free agency doesn't look promising. Goal tending is the never ending story and while Thomas should take another step forward next season nobody knows to what degree it will be. You'll have Kyrou and Kostin vying for roster spots but it would be wishful thinking to foresee them lighting the league on fire as rookies or even 2nd year guys the following year. Then what? Nobody knows if Pietrangelo or Schenn will resign or what that'll cost. Players are wanting to make it to UFA status and I won't be shocked if they both choose to go elsewhere. I'm not suggesting they will or have any inside info at all, I just won't be surprised if it happens.

At the end of the day I personally haven't really been excited about this team's chances to win a Cup since the Gretzky trade. There's been a lot of fun hockey between now and then but even the recent WCF trip was easy to see the Blues were outmatched by SJ. SJ was then highly outplayed in the finals. I guess that's life as a Blues fan

 

[CitizenSnips]

Solid points all around and hopefully you're not lumping me in with the instant gratification crowd. I was never in favor of trading Tarasenko but if the team would have continued as a dumpster fire it seemed something the organization was mulling over. I never thought Schwartz was on the same level as Tarasenko because they are on different levels skill wise and always have been. A lot of fans (I have a best friend included in this) love Schwartz to death and saw him being better than Tarasenko because they watched the compete level of Schwartz vs Tarasenko. That's certainly a factor when it comes to hockey players but it's very rare when the most talented players have the most drive or compete level. They don't typically have the same compete level because they rely more on their skill.

I also stated I expect Schwartz to come out of his current funk but at what level remains to be seen obviously. To your point of bringing him back as a top 6 LW next season is fine and more so if he regains his form. My thought process was more from what the organization might look at. It seems they certainly thought about Schenn to Boston (I'm guessing for LHD help since a trade never happened).

It's a funny position and here's why. Do I like watching the Blues win? Yes. My wife is a pretty big Blues fan but she doesn't get into it as deeply as I do. She can't understand why just being a fan and enjoying some success (like making the playoffs) isn't enough. I did that merry-go-round for 25 years straight and while I do enjoy watching the Blues win the reality part of my brain sees what lies ahead in the playoffs. Could this roster catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, anything is possible. It's just unlikely and I can't fathom that anyone, fan or not, can realistically think otherwise. I'm also trying to project next year and beyond with the direction of the franchise and I don't see things getting a lot better over the next 3-4 years. That's really this roster's sweet spot for making a push and there's not enough top end talent in my opinion. So even after seeing this turnaround I would have preferred the dumpster fire to continue if, and there's always that proverbial *if, it's for the betterment of the organization overall, even if that means 2,3, or 4 years from now. Who knows though, I'm sure the roster will look a lot different in 3 years so it's impossible to guess.

So yeah I'd love to see Schwartz back to his old self next year on the Blues. There's also holes to fill on defense and free agency doesn't look promising. Goal tending is the never ending story and while Thomas should take another step forward next season nobody knows to what degree it will be. You'll have Kyrou and Kostin vying for roster spots but it would be wishful thinking to foresee them lighting the league on fire as rookies or even 2nd year guys the following year. Then what? Nobody knows if Pietrangelo or Schenn will resign or what that'll cost. Players are wanting to make it to UFA status and I won't be shocked if they both choose to go elsewhere. I'm not suggesting they will or have any inside info at all, I just won't be surprised if it happens.

At the end of the day I personally haven't really been excited about this team's chances to win a Cup since the Gretzky trade. There's been a lot of fun hockey between now and then but even the recent WCF trip was easy to see the Blues were outmatched by SJ. SJ was then highly outplayed in the finals. I guess that's life as a Blues fan

As a huge defender of Swizzle-Schwartz, I never thought he was going to be better than 91. I just thought he had a higher hockey IQ than anyone else on the team and I thought he was always a great compliment to 91. That said, it never worked out very well with them on the same line and at this point, if it came between resigning Schenn or dealing 17, I would resign Schenn and roll the dice with the talent we have on hand to push us towards the future. 91, 10, 90, 27, 29 are a great core to build around and I really hope 17 changes my mind by making me add him to that group

 

[Dbrownss]

As a huge defender of Swizzle-Schwartz, I never thought he was going to be better than 91. I just thought he had a higher hockey IQ than anyone else on the team and I thought he was always a great compliment to 91. That said, it never worked out very well with them on the same line and at this point, if it came between resigning Schenn or dealing 17, I would resign Schenn and roll the dice with the talent we have on hand to push us towards the future. 91, 10, 90, 27, 29 are a great core to build around and I really hope 17 changes my mind by making me add him to that group

Well that's just false. The Schwartz Lehtera Tarasenko line was one of the best for a period and last year the Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko line was rediculous till Schwartz went down Schwartz and Tarasenko have always played well together.

 

[Klank Loves You]

This off-season, there was a fairly long discussion where the majority thought that over the last 2 years, Schwartz has been more valuable to us that Tarasenko. I would still back that assertion up. Vlady hadn't been producing as much as expected, and Schwartz plays a more complete game. Obviously Tarasenko's shoulder is back, and RoR has inspired 91 to new levels, so it's easy to look back and mock those sentiments.

Schwartz looks like a shell of his former self. Im in the "Injured enough to need surgery, but playing through it in an attempt to contribute into what im sure he thought is a potential Cup team" camp. It's not outlandish, we've seen players do it before.

 

[Blueston]

There were a number of people here who were very vocal about wanting to trade him, and a number of the opinions about him were a lot more emotional than "merely analyzing the return" suggests. I have no particular interest in pulling specific quotes and potentially singling out posters. It's not hard to go back through and read the comments here and on the trade board if you think I'm overstating things.

I don't dispute that Schwartz is in his own head at this point. It happens to all of us, and elite athletes are certainly not immune to it. I think you're overstating things a bit by saying that almost everything he does is wrong, but hyperbole is the way of the internet I guess. What I dispute is the notion that Schwartz's career is "done," or that he's always sucked, or at times the notion of him being "injury prone," or a lot of the other hyperbolic narratives that are constantly popping up here and there.

He's having a rough year. Chances are excellent that he'll pull out of it eventually. It might be this year, or it might not be, but there's no good reason to think that his career has fallen off a cliff at age 26/27 just because he's shooting at 1/3 the rate he normally does and it's messing with his mental game.

Unless you think you're getting McAvoy from Boston, and the Blues wouldn't be, you're getting screwed if you're dealing "normal" Schwartz there for anything they have at LHD. What's wrong with just waiting for him to rebound and be the best LW on the team again? Even if you re-sign Schenn and convert him to wing full time, it's hard to make a credible argument that Schwartz shouldn't still be one of our top 3 wingers, and he would still be the one with the best all-around game for my money.

He's a two-way first line player who normally is quite capable of driving the offense on his own line. There was a time in the not so distance past that a good number of people here thought he was a better and more important player to the team than Tarasenko. The Blues aren't exactly flush with guys like that in their system, and hoping they'll just magically conjure another one to replace him is wishful thinking. They can't pull off a ROR/Schenn trade every year. If you deal him, you're almost certainly going to regret it.

I don't understand why it's so **** hard for fans to just appreciate what they have. They should know better than anyone else exactly how important their players are and what they bring to the team. So many people just seem incapable of remembering or appreciating anything that isn't happening now, or at most in the last half-year or so.

We live in a time when immediate gratification is the expectation, and patience/attention spans are becoming more and more underdeveloped. I don't know about you, but nothing is a more constant reminder of that to me than talking with people on the internet.

I was one of those when it looked like our team was garbage who thought we should explore what Tarasenko would return. He had been on downward trend for a couple years and if we were retooling made sense to see if he could bring back young impact piece. I won't speak for others, but I never advocated dumping him for pennies on dollar. I only wanted to deal him if he returned premium value. The team turned it around so it's easy to mock, but exploring value of your players and moving those whose return outweighs their projected value going forward is generally prudent.

 

[Brockon]

I was one of those when it looked like our team was garbage who thought we should explore what Tarasenko would return. He had been on downward trend for a couple years and if we were retooling made sense to see if he could bring back young impact piece. I won't speak for others, but I never advocated dumping him for pennies on dollar. I only wanted to deal him if he returned premium value. The team turned it around so it's easy to mock, but exploring value of your players and moving those whose return outweighs their projected value going forward is generally prudent.

I'll openly admit I was highly in favour of exploring a package deal with Florida earlier this season, when Tarasenko was still recovering and we looked to be a bottom 10 team.

I wanted to look into a Matheson, Tippett, and a 1st type of package for Tarasenko.

 

[TK 421]

With as bad as things were earlier in the season after such high expectations coming in... can you really blame people for coming up with drastic solutions that weren't all that well thought out? We were supposed to be really good and instead came out looking like a mixed up mess of terribad that left many fans and analysts alike in shock.

 

[CitizenSnips]

Well that's just false. The Schwartz Lehtera Tarasenko line was one of the best for a period and last year the Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko line was rediculous till Schwartz went down Schwartz and Tarasenko have always played well together.

Yeah, you are right about both of those lines but I never really felt the chemistry between the two of them. Looking at the 10,90,91 line, I feel like he has more chemistry with Schenn than he has had with Schwartz. Its just an eye test for me and like I said I cannot argue those two lines you mentioned.

 

[Dbrownss]

Yeah, you are right about both of those lines but I never really felt the chemistry between the two of them. Looking at the 10,90,91 line, I feel like he has more chemistry with Schenn than he has had with Schwartz. Its just an eye test for me and like I said I cannot argue those two lines you mentioned.

Something is wrong with Schwartz though. He is someone who can drive a line, right now he couldn't drive Ms. Daisy. I wouldnt let this year form a permanent opinion on Schwartz

 

[Celtic Note]

Duhatschek just had a good article in the Athletic about “good players having bad seasons”. I highly recommend reading it.

He points to many guys as examples including Schwartz and Pietrangelo. He also has some examples of players explaining what happened to them that they associate with their down years.

The big takeaways are confidence, injuries and off the ice issues. These are by no means revelations, but the points and evidence made certainly supports them.

 

[CitizenSnips]

Something is wrong with Schwartz though. He is someone who can drive a line, right now he couldn't drive Ms. Daisy. I wouldnt let this year form a permanent opinion on Schwartz

So do you think it is mental or that he doesn't have what he once did? I always found him to be the smartest hockey player on our team and this year, he just hasn't shown that. I am okay with giving him an off-year but if he starts the same way next year, it may be time to move him imo

 

[KingBran]

I take things as they come. Schwartz sucks right now. I hope he shows up in the playoffs. How incredible would that be?

Haven't given up on him at all. But damn. He has got to start finishing.

 

[Dbrownss]

So do you think it is mental or that he doesn't have what he once did? I always found him to be the smartest hockey player on our team and this year, he just hasn't shown that. I am okay with giving him an off-year but if he starts the same way next year, it may be time to move him imo

It looks physical and mental. Maybe he has hardware in his ankle that's giving him issues. Ek65 looked god awful for a good amount of time after his tendon surgery. Just a guess on that one but he cant stay on his skates at all....he visually looks bad in the skating department.

As for mental, I think he's lost his confidence....he's tried to push through it but things are going his way. If Perron Bozak Thomas can for a legit 2nd line....having Schwartz on the 3rd line is a huge luxury. Not much pressure to score there.

 

[KingBran]

 

[DeuceNine]

I don’t recall a massive call for trading Tarasenko but merely analyzing the return if he was traded.

If you're married or in a serious relationship and still go out to the bars every night, it's probably not just because you're "curious." There's impetus for things like this. If you're truly happy with a player and understand that there's just a lull in his game for whatever reason, you accept it and move on. Frankly, if we're in first place and JS still played like this, nobody would say anything. But fans like to panic and get hyperbolic when a player is having issues surrounded by a team that has collective issues as well.

 

[MissouriMook]

So he’s OK now?

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

 

[TheDizee]

time for schwartz to wake up and start peforming. his abysmal regular season will be somewhat forgiven if he plays like a elite player again

 

[Bluesguru]

I think Schwartz has looked great in the 2 opening games. Very shifty and elusive. A lot of jump.

 

[MissouriMook]

I think Schwartz has looked great in the 2 opening games. Very shifty and elusive. A lot of jump.

Agreed. I think the goals are coming, hopefully as soon as tomorrow night.