Player Discussion Jacob Trouba

[darko]

You can't talk to Winnipeg fans. Every player and prospect they have is great. Cockiest fanbase in sports.

They have about 15 prospects with elite potential.

 

[Edge]

You can't talk to Winnipeg fans. Every player and prospect they have is great. Cockiest fanbase in sports.

It's Winnipeg, what the hell else do they have going on?

I've been to Winnipeg in the winter. Neal Pionk is a welcome distraction.

 

[Irishguy42]

Leave that fanbase alone.

It's tough to be a fan of a team in a desolate wasteland of a city that doesn't have an airport.

 

[CasusBelli]

Jets fans are in full-on spin mode on him.

But, but, but ...

 

[Edge]

The question is simple for the Rangers and their perspective:

On a roster that features ADA and Fox, who would you rather have finish the set on the right side?

Pionk or Trouba?

It’s game 7 of a playoff series and the season is on the line. Who do you want on the ice? Trouba or Pionk?

I think there’s this illusion that Trouba is significantly older than Pionk because of their respective paths to the NHL. The reality is that Trouba is all of a year older than Pionk. So it’s not like we traded a 20 year old prospect for a 29 year old grizzled veteran.

 

[Edge]

You know, for all the talk about Pionk’s season, he’s an offensive leaning defenseman who has fewer goals and one less point than Trouba.

And when we factor in teams, age, and attributes beyond offensive production, I guess I am not really seeing it being all that close, even with the first going back to Winnipeg.

While people talk about Fox and ADA’s numbers as well, Trouba is almost quietly also on a 14 goal/45 point pace himself.

 

[aufheben]

People want Pionk v. Trouba to be a thing so badly and it just...isn’t.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

You can't talk to Winnipeg fans. Every player and prospect they have is great. Cockiest fanbase in sports.

Always disliked those fans, and by extension the team. "BEst FAnbASe iN The nHL!" Being insufferably loud and irritating doesn't make you a great fanbase, and neither does selling out your tiny barn every night, big whoop what the f*** else do Winnipegonians got to do, shovel snow?

 

[SA16]

You know, for all the talk about Pionk’s season, he’s an offensive leaning defenseman who has fewer goals and one less point than Trouba.

And when we factor in teams, age, and attributes beyond offensive production, I guess I am not really seeing it being all that close, even with the first going back to Winnipeg.

While people talk about Fox and ADA’s numbers as well, Trouba is almost quietly also on a 14 goal/45 point pace himself.

Pionk is still not an offensive defenseman. He only puts up points on the PP and the PP points are mostly the role (He and Morrisssey have both got PP1 time. He has 8 points there Morrissey has 7.)

He has all of 5 5v5 points this year (124th among dmen) after having 9 last year. He looks like an offensive defenseman because he is a good skater and likes to shoot.

There are 109 defenseman who have played at least 1500 minutes at 5v5 since last year. Pionk is 105th in points scored ahead of only Gudbranson, Grzelyck, Engelland and Jack Johnson.

And it's not that he makes plays that lead to offense while not scoring himself either. When he's on the ice the team scores at a very low rate (both in NY and WPG). His play might be better this year since he's not bleeding chances against but he's not an offensive defenseman at all. He's probably more like a John Moore who at times makes you think otherwise because of how good a skater he is that it seems like he is creative and generating chances.

 

[Edge]

Pionk is still not an offensive defenseman. He only puts up points on the PP and the PP points are mostly the role (He and Morrisssey have both got PP1 time. He has 8 points there Morrissey has 7.)

He has all of 5 5v5 points this year (124th among dmen) after having 9 last year. He looks like an offensive defenseman because he is a good skater and likes to shoot.

There are 109 defenseman who have played at least 1500 minutes at 5v5 since last year. Pionk is 105th in points scored ahead of only Gudbranson, Grzelyck, Engelland and Jack Johnson.

And it's not that he makes plays that lead to offense while not scoring himself either. When he's on the ice the team scores at a very low rate (both in NY and WPG). His play might be better this year since he's not bleeding chances against but he's not an offensive defenseman at all. He's probably more like a John Moore who at times makes you think otherwise because of how good a skater he is that it seems like he is creative and generating chances.

I get all that, and none of it’s false, but if he’s put on the power play, because that’s where his role allows him to put up points, then to some degree he’s viewed as an offensive defenseman.

That’s also a big reason why the first thing people point to with Pionk is his points. Whereas other defensemen, say Trouba, typically don’t see that happen, even if they actually have more points.

And that kind of segways into my point/takeaway that while some are pointing to Pionk’s season, and using offensive totals as a pillar, he’s still not even winning the “comparison” in that regard, despite it being a more fundamental component of his game, his utilization, and right or wrong, how his success is viewed.

It really wasn’t to debate how one defines an offensive defenseman or how Pionk’s usage either does or doesn’t make him a true offensive defenseman. I agree with what you’re saying and you’re overall assessment of Pionk. I just think he’s viewed the way he’s viewed and utilized a certain way accordingly.

 

[motopanekeku]

People want Pionk v. Trouba to be a thing so badly and it just...isn’t.

We got a steady vet because we needed one. They got a young potential stud because they're loading up on those.

Win win, how bout that!

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

We got a steady vet because we needed one. They got a young potential stud because they're loading up on those.

Win win, how bout that!

The "steady vet" is basically 7 months older than the "young potential stud" (something nobody has ever mentioned Pionk as being).

 

[Ghost of jas]

We got a steady vet because we needed one. They got a young potential stud because they're loading up on those.

Win win, how bout that!

Your definition of ‘young, potential stud’ is not one that I’m familiar with.

 

[Edge]

The "steady vet" is basically 7 months older than the "young potential stud" (something nobody has ever mentioned Pionk as being).

The age thing has always been ironic to me --- 1994 compared to 1995. It wasn't a Brassard for Zibanejad type difference.

And I would agree about the stud thing. Even if I thought this board could be a bit harsh on Pionk, that's not a term that was regularly associated with him by those who were more accepting of him as a player.

 

[Ghost of jas]

A 45 point RHD that anchors the D, plays in all situations, eats up ice time and plays with physical bite is more than worth a 1st and defenseman who would be playing on the bottom pairing if still here.

 

[McRanger]

Good for Pionk if he's improved but I am glad he is gone.

 

[motopanekeku]

Your definition of ‘young, potential stud’ is not one that I’m familiar with.

Ha ok I'll adjust my verbage for you guys.

The Rangers acquired a more experienced, slightly older, proven NHL defenseman in exchange for a slightly younger, inexperienced defenseman with potential first pairing upside...

Does that sound right lol?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Ha ok I'll adjust my verbage for you guys.

The Rangers acquired a more experienced, slightly older, proven NHL defenseman in exchange for a slightly younger, inexperienced defenseman with potential first pairing upside...

I have never thought Pionk has 1st pairing upside.

 

[motopanekeku]

The "steady vet" is basically 7 months older than the "young potential stud" (something nobody has ever mentioned Pionk as being).

Then what was the trade about? Did both teams not aquire what they intended? If you're addressing the hyperbole I used then I'm sorry I'll be more conservative with my language lol

 

[motopanekeku]

I have never thought Pionk has 1st pairing upside.

Well the Jets do and he plays for them

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I have never thought Pionk has 1st pairing upside.

I was never as down on Pionk as most, but I saw first pairing potential. He will likely live and die with his offense. Doesn't have the defensive acumen to be a top pairing guy. Better chance he would be an AHL/NHL tweener than a top pairing guy.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Then what was the trade about? Did both teams not aquire what they intended? If you're addressing the hyperbole I used then I'm sorry I'll be more conservative with my language lol

What was the trade about? For the Jets it was getting assets for a guy they likely couldn't keep. For the Rangers it was about getting a young, proven player who they could keep and immediately improve their blueline now and in the future.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Well the Jets do and he plays for them

But, he wasn’t going to be one with the Rangers. And, not only would he have been behind DeAngelo (which he was by the end of last year) and Fox, he was going to pushed by Keane and likely passed by Lundkvist.

 

[Edge]

Well the Jets do and he plays for them

Something tells me he slides down the depth chart if they had other options.

So I think there's also an element of where he's playing vs. where he ideally belongs.

Someone would look at Brady Skjei right now, look at his stat line, and how we're using him, and proclaim him a first pairing defenseman. But that proclamation wouldn't necessarily make it so.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Something tells me he slides down the depth chart if they had other options.

So I think there's also an element of where he's playing vs. where he ideally belongs.

Someone would look at Brady Skjei right now, look at his stat line, and how we're using him, and proclaim him a first pairing defenseman. But that proclamation wouldn't necessarily make it so.

Yeah, if Buff was still playing, Pionk is not on their top pairing.