Post-Game Talk: Jack Johnson Era 0 -2.

[HandshakeLine]

Eh, they're not allowing US citizens in right now.

That's okay, Dr. Doom said Latveria U. is still open to a campus visit and the job's still on the table.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kessel was a problem and was ultimately more of a negative influence than a positive last year.

Yeah but you ended up kinda BOTH being right.

Odd, that. lol

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kessel was a problem and was ultimately more of a negative influence than a positive last year.

Kessel outscored every Pens player save Malkin in the playoffs and clearly made our PP tick.

In spite of his flaws, he was and is a net positive player. But Sullivan's narrow mold doesn't allow that, so we have a bunch of one-note wingers who can skate, muck, and get hurt but can't generate a goal.

Until we replace a good portion of what he brought, we're going to be stuck in neutral here.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

That's the thing; this isn't a sudden, out of nowhere loss. This is a multi-year trend of bad roster management and coaching leading to a worsening trend results-wise. This shouldn't have taken anyone by surprise.

Like others have said, we have options. 1. Rip the band-aid off an try one last time with a new set of eyes/approach in the front office and a new voice behind the bench. 2. We can stay the course and hope these guys pull a swift and dramatic 180 in their approach to building the roster and bench management. 3. Probably least palatable to most people but the option I'm starting to think is the best choice, begin the fire sale and aim to compete again in 3 years or so. That means Letang's gone, Hornqvist's gone. Everyone not named Sid, Jake, Marino and Jarry--Geno as well, but he's going to have to take a huge pay cut after this deal is up.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby is 33. Malkin is 34. This was bound to happen

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Kessel outscored every Pens player save Malkin in the playoffs and clearly made our PP tick.

In spite of his flaws, he was and is a net positive player. But Sullivan's narrow mold doesn't allow that, so we have a bunch of one-note wingers who can skate, muck, and get hurt but can't generate a goal.

Until we replace a good portion of what he brought, we're going to be stuck in neutral here.

Well I'm not gonna rehash this. The Kessel situation made Malkin lose his shit. And so Kessel needed to go for that reason alone. Not to mention his awful play here last year. Bye. He didn't need replacing; we miss him sometimes on the PP, that's all.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Funny how relationships can override incompetence. Everyone should be gone because this was embarrassing. It's literally Dan Bylsma 2.0. Making no changes and relying on the same old habits year in and year out.

I don't know how much longer Sid and Geno can still be impactful players before their inevitable downfall. Do you go the Chicago route and go all-in for one last title, then be hamstrung in the future?

Or is it rebuilding time? They have been awful in the last 2 playoffs. Something has to give.

Their performance this season before everything fell apart tells me there’s still something there. People are forgetting that they had an extended run of looking great, performing great and having great underlying numbers. That probably means they won’t go the full rebuild route and is likely going to give Sullivan another year. What they might have to do is dedicate the season to sorting some shit out and not go cup chasing. No TDL adds or off season “missing pieces” JR has to have. Any moves are of the small and smart or can’t miss variety.

Right now they have a few needs, the 3C position still isn’t solved, the D needs attention, some contracts have to go and I think the youth getting treated right has to be the priority.

Guentzel-Crosby-X
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
X-X-Hornqvist (figure out what the McCann and Simon plans are)
X-Blueger-Tanev

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
X-X

Ideally, I think Pettersson gets pushed down to the 3rd pairing but they’ve got 3 major pieces on D. A lot depends on what the WBS guys and Poulin do, and the 2020 1st. But as is, McCann and Simon are RFAs who could fill those bottom 6 spots or be trade pieces. If POJ or Reilly surprises that would go a long way to the D; someone like POJ’s development has to be a priority and the same is for Poulin. A Murray return could fill one of those holes. The biggest spots have to be 1RW, 2LD and 3C. They’re holes but they’re not impossible to fill holes in a year.

And the assistant coaches... something needs to change there out of principle. I also dgaf is the master anchor is a 3.25M paperweight, he’s not a f*** damn regular even if he can’t be moved.

 

[canadianguy77]

Our wingers were too small and weak to win the initial puck retrievals after the dump-ins. F1 was almost always on an island against 2 Hab defenders and the puck went the other way in a hurry. It was infuriating to watch.

This isn’t a roster built for a puck possession game, and yet it’s the only strategy that Sullivan employed. We would’ve been better off trapping right back, and focusing on a transition offense.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Our wingers were too small and weak to win the initial puck retrievals after the dump-ins. F1 was almost always on an island against 2 Hab defenders and the puck went the other way in a hurry. It was infuriating to watch.

This isn’t a roster built for a puck possession game, and yet it’s the only strategy that Sullivan employed. We would’ve been better off trapping right back, and focusing on a transition offense.

Yes but that's tantamount to admitting that your plan isn't the right plan. And everything they do is the right plan.

Silly armchair GMs!

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah but you ended up kinda BOTH being right.

Odd, that. lol

I was going to say, I don't think those two view points are mutually exclusive.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well I'm not gonna rehash this. The Kessel situation made Malkin lose his shit. And so Kessel needed to go for that reason alone. Not to mention his awful play here last year. Bye. He didn't need replacing; we miss him sometimes on the PP, that's all.

The Kessel/Sullivan dynamic and Malkin being caught in the middle is what made Malkin lose his shit.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm still glad Kessel's gone, if for no other reason than it'd just be one more big contract for an aging player we'd have to move this off-season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The Kessel/Sullivan dynamic and Malkin being caught in the middle is what made Malkin lose his shit.

I think there's an interesting thought experiment/hypothetical case to be made for us backing the wrong horse with Sullivan in their feud, but I honestly think this year's rot goes far deeper than just missing Kessel.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kessel outscored every Pens player save Malkin in the playoffs and clearly made our PP tick.

In spite of his flaws, he was and is a net positive player. But Sullivan's narrow mold doesn't allow that, so we have a bunch of one-note wingers who can skate, muck, and get hurt but can't generate a goal.

Until we replace a good portion of what he brought, we're going to be stuck in neutral here.

Powerplay was at 9% against the Isles and Phil was on the ice for more gf than against.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

At best, Phil helps get us past Montreal only to get absolutely decimated by the Flyers in the 1st round. Likely more realistically; We're in the same exact spot, because Phil's presence doesn't give us a 3rd line, a bottom pairing on defense, get Dumo to play defense properly, get Letang to have any kind of impact offensively, or give us a 4th line capable of any kind of offensive pressure or production.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well we didn't have a third line anyway so we may as well have had Phil.

I'm kidding. Kind of.

 

[Pens1566]

Kessel outscored every Pens player save Malkin in the playoffs and clearly made our PP tick.

In spite of his flaws, he was and is a net positive player. But Sullivan's narrow mold doesn't allow that, so we have a bunch of one-note wingers who can skate, muck, and get hurt but can't generate a goal.

Until we replace a good portion of what he brought, we're going to be stuck in neutral here.

My main problem with Sullivan. He can't adapt and work with what he has. He always seems to be shove guys into roles they don't fit, and sees no other way. Good coaches use the strengths of the players they have and adapt accordingly.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Sullivan got too big within this organization after the back-to-back Cups. This became his system, for better or worse. His way or the highway.

It handcuffed his GM a lot and it eventually turned a Cup-winning roster into a team that cannot even beat the 24th-ranked team to make the playoffs.

It is what it is. Start over fresh with new ideas and new faces.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Even if JR was thinking of just this season, he should have moved Schultz. Schultz hurt their chances this year.

Ya, thats the biggest kick in the sack.

It's not like it was hard to predict, seeing as how he's been ass for awhile now.

But it's simply a case of them being all in and not wanting to let go of a guy who helped them win a cup.

And it backfired big time and is a prime example of what Im trying to get at here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yes they are all a bit older.

But does no one remember this same reaction of "its all over, woe is us" right before the back to back cups?

It was really not that long ago. And sounded a lot like this.

The front office finally got over their size fixation and looked for speed and skill again.

Recognizing the problem and having a plan that I can agree with and get behind is half the battle.

I don't think the front office ever looked for speed and skill TBTH, until JR came around. So I wouldn't entirely agree they ever went back to some skill/speed based model that worked.

It was essentially, lets have two generational talents carry us while we focus on building a great blue line (that never materialized).

Thats why so many of us pleaded for Shero to get legit top six help for Malkin and Crosby for years... guys that could skate and create on their own.

Then for the first time in the Crosby/Malkin era, JR came in with this KrAzy idea to build a team that was skilled and could really skate.

I also never believed things were over in 2014, nor do I believe that now.

It took a couple years then to rebuild on the fly and I feel that will be the case now.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

The Kessel/Sullivan dynamic and Malkin being caught in the middle is what made Malkin lose his shit.

That's what I said

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think there's an interesting thought experiment/hypothetical case to be made for us backing the wrong horse with Sullivan in their feud, but I honestly think this year's rot goes far deeper than just missing Kessel.

I think it was more a symptom of bigger problems. They never should have let Malkin get dragged into it and it all sounds like an unprofessional mess. It should have stayed contained between Kessel, the coaching staff and anyone higher up. Malkin also could have removed himself from the situation or not gone full on f*** it, but he also sounded possibly depressed with all the not being bothered with everything. Meanwhile, no one was like "we've got to shelter Malkin from this because it's really messing with him" or they had no control of the situation and couldn't. Just embarrassing.

That being said, if Sullivan has personal problems with another player he needs to be told to shut up and suck it up. That's had enough influence and he's a middle aged man in a work environment dealing with adults. Be functional. They all need to be professional.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think there's an interesting thought experiment/hypothetical case to be made for us backing the wrong horse with Sullivan in their feud, but I honestly think this year's rot goes far deeper than just missing Kessel.

For sure. I mean, Jack Johnson is a regular roster player. We've got issues.

But Kessel was made the scapegoat and it's clear that he was not the problem. We lost to a worse team this year than last, had trouble generating anything, meanwhile he's producing and his team's moving on.

Powerplay was at 9% against the Isles and Phil was on the ice for more gf than against.

Be sure to apply that same logic to Crosby and Guentzel. They are problematic because they can't score and are liabilities at ES based on last year's 4 game sample size.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

At best, Phil helps get us past Montreal only to get absolutely decimated by the Flyers in the 1st round. Likely more realistically; We're in the same exact spot, because Phil's presence doesn't give us a 3rd line, a bottom pairing on defense, get Dumo to play defense properly, get Letang to have any kind of impact offensively, or give us a 4th line capable of any kind of offensive pressure or production.

I think Kessel's game actually had a better chance of working with McCann than any of our playoff wingers because he's a skilled winger who can hang onto the puck and make plays.

He doesn't solve every problem here, of course. He can't make Sullivan scratch our bottom pair or heal Crosby and Guentzel quicker. But he did make the team better.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Kessel's game actually had a better chance of working with McCann than any of our playoff wingers because he's a skilled winger who can hang onto the puck and make plays.

He doesn't solve every problem here, of course. He can't make Sullivan scratch our bottom pair or heal Crosby and Guentzel quicker. But he did make the team better.

I'm not sure McCann's a legitimate center, to be honest. He may not be terrible, but he's certainly nothing special at C, imo. If he's going to have any kind of impact at the NHL level, it'll probably have to be as a 2nd line LW, or a 3rd line LW on a team with a much better 3rd line situation than this one.