Post-Game Talk: Jack Johnson Era 0 -2.

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
Feb 19, 2013
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I don't mean to say Tanev is BAD, necessarily. He isn't. He's your classic meat and potatoes energy guy. Great wheels and a nonstop motor. Willing to use his body to disrupt. I recognize and respect those kinds of players.

But for what he was kind of built up to be by so many fans... this like... ULTIMATE depth player... nah. Don't see it. Just looks like a bad contract for a 4th liner, to me.

I didn’t think you did. He just won’t hit JJ levels of hatred because he’s not useless. Not unless Tanev becomes totally awful next season.

Part of that is Sullivan being married to Tanev on L4. It’s more a bad contract for a 3rd liner for now, but he’s on L4. I did find it funny when 10 games in some people had decided that the contract was in fact good and he’d be in the top 6. His production slowed down. He’s a good energy guy for the bottom 6 who JR went insane for because he’s sometimes unhinged. It’s better than a terrible D getting a huge contract but neither should have happened.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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I didn’t think you did. He just won’t hit JJ levels of hatred because he’s not useless. Not unless Tanev becomes totally awful next season.

Part of that is Sullivan being married to Tanev on L4. It’s more a bad contract for a 3rd liner for now, but he’s on L4. I did find it funny when 10 games in some people had decided that the contract was in fact good and he’d be in the top 6. His production slowed down. He’s a good energy guy for the bottom 6 who JR went insane for because he’s sometimes unhinged. It’s better than a terrible D getting a huge contract but neither should have happened.

You are 100% right that at the very least one guy won't really hurt you when it comes to playing the actual game (so long as we keep our eyes off the cap charts) and the other absolutely will.
 
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Peat

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I think the whole “Kessel refuses to play there so we must get rid of him” thing says about as much about Sullivan as it does Phil at this point.

If they'd immediately got rid of him, sure. But they didn't. Sully gave him a bunch of rope with Malkin and the answer was one of Geno's worse seasons.

There is precedent there re: Sullivan with Cole too, right? Or did we never really get the full scoop of what was going on, there?

Sullivan certainly seems to be rigid about what he expects and what kinds of players he'll... tolerate. Probably not a great hallmark of a coach that wants a long shelf-life.

Cole got HSed - he was playing like crap at the time, it wasn't inexplicable - and there's rumours that a) he asked for a trade and b) about the Cole being too chatty to the media being part of a personality clash. Got back into the line-up, believe the rift was repaired - pretty sure I've seen Cole speak warmly of Sully - but they traded him anyway, which may be personality clash or may simply have been expiring contract and Rutherford being hungry for Brassard.

I didn’t think you did. He just won’t hit JJ levels of hatred because he’s not useless. Not unless Tanev becomes totally awful next season.

Part of that is Sullivan being married to Tanev on L4. It’s more a bad contract for a 3rd liner for now, but he’s on L4. I did find it funny when 10 games in some people had decided that the contract was in fact good and he’d be in the top 6. His production slowed down. He’s a good energy guy for the bottom 6 who JR went insane for because he’s sometimes unhinged. It’s better than a terrible D getting a huge contract but neither should have happened.

L4 was L3 this season and 3.5m for 25 points was only a mild overpayment last season - low end 2nd line money for average 3rd line production - without even considering the defensive stuff, so I'm not sure it's even that bad. Maybe not the best use of resources - although it really did feel an insane bargain early on - but certainly not a bad one. Better him than Dzingel or Ferland at least.
 

K Fleur

Sacrifice
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If they'd immediately got rid of him, sure. But they didn't. Sully gave him a bunch of rope with Malkin and the answer was one of Geno's worse seasons.

Right, but again I think this says just as much about Sullivan as it does Kessel.

Accountability is something this organization preaches but only practices when it feels like it. Mostly when they need a scapegoat


And just to sure- I’m not pining for Phil Kessel. I think it’s clear that he’s not the player he used to be.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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The Cole situation was blown out of proportion, imo. Dude wasn't playing well and probably dogging it in practice so he got scratched. I assume there was a heated discussion to boot. He was ultimately used as part of the (in hindsight; shitty) Brassard blockbuster, so it's not even like they gave him away for peanuts or anything.
 

lastcupever75

Phive cups PA.
May 14, 2009
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2 goals a game ?? is enough ??

no, they are talented offensively but need more "playoff type" players. they are too finesse, too small to win battles for puck possession and in front of the nets, where the dirty goals are scored

they get frustrated because they just can't skate around and free wheel like they do in the regular season.
Sid and Geno should not be leading the charge in that dept but often they are. No excuse for the rest of the players
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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I wasn't saying I wanted to keep Cole (though if JJ was the eventual answer to that hole then I think we all know what my feelings are). I was just curious what the whole dustup between he and Sullivan was. Forgot the details.
 

Andy99

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I wasn't saying I wanted to keep Cole (though if JJ was the eventual answer to that hole then I think we all know what my feelings are). I was just curious what the whole dustup between he and Sullivan was. Forgot the details.

he spoke to the media too much for Sully’s liking is what I recall, or some such idiotic reason...
 
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Peat

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Right, but again I think this says just as much about Sullivan as it does Kessel.

Accountability is something this organization preaches but doesn’t practice.

What, that Sullivan tried a bunch of stuff to keep a star happy? That Sullivan can't hypnotise Kessel into doing whatever?

Tbh, I'm not sure it says much about either of them. They had different ideas of how Kessel best fit into the team, they tried a bunch of stuff, nothing stuck well enough to please both of them. The acrimony over Kessel's attention to detail probably is to neither of their credit and harmed the team, but the stuff about where to play Kessel, that just seems to be something that affects coaches and stars everywhere.

I wasn't saying I wanted to keep Cole (though if JJ was the eventual answer to that hole then I think we all know what my feelings are). I was just curious what the whole dustup between he and Sullivan was. Forgot the details.

Cole at 4.1m always struck me as hella pricy but @KIRK insists he'd have signed here cheaper. If true, given how things played out, I'd have loved to keep him, and honestly I'd love to have him back as I think he'd be the perfect guy to help bring POJ through.
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
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L4 was L3 this season and 3.5m for 25 points was only a mild overpayment last season - low end 2nd line money for average 3rd line production - without even considering the defensive stuff, so I'm not sure it's even that bad. Maybe not the best use of resources - although it really did feel an insane bargain early on - but certainly not a bad one. Better him than Dzingel or Ferland at least.

Yeah, but then you factor in the 6 years and 10 team NTC list. Like with JJ the term is what makes things really dangerous and with that term you’d expect a lower cap hit.

No one should have been defining Tanev’s signing in half a season, though. No shit things changed. Ferland is sad. I’d feel so guilty if the Pens were letting him play at this point.
 

Peat

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Yeah, but then you factor in the 6 years and 10 team NTC list. Like with JJ the term is what makes things really dangerous and with that term you’d expect a lower cap hit.

No one should have been defining Tanev’s signing in half a season, though. No shit things changed. Ferland is sad. I’d feel so guilty if the Pens were letting him play at this point.

I dunno fam. Given inflation from Roussel, and given how Ferland got a full NMC, I'm willing to believe the extra term was needed as a way to outbid other teams without increasing the cap hit. Rutherford's not the only guy who goes mad for peeps like him. I suppose the answer is "don't bid on these UFAs" but I don't hate it. It's certainly an ugly contract to move if things go south but barring injury, that seems pretty unlikely.

I'm also 50% sure Tanev ends up Seattle's problem.
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
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I dunno fam. Given inflation from Roussel, and given how Ferland got a full NMC, I'm willing to believe the extra term was needed as a way to outbid other teams without increasing the cap hit. Rutherford's not the only guy who goes mad for peeps like him. I suppose the answer is "don't bid on these UFAs" but I don't hate it. It's certainly an ugly contract to move if things go south but barring injury, that seems pretty unlikely.

I'm also 50% sure Tanev ends up Seattle's problem.

Ferland was a different level of desired than Tanev and got 4 years at the same cap hit. Maybe you argue that injury concerns equalized that. Roussel, idk, but again 4 years and a slightly lower cap hit. 12M and 14M vs 21M.

The answer is to have a limit or not have a JJ contract.

I figure Hornqvist goes to Seattle if he’s not looking too hot or they think he’s near the cliff.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
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Ferland was a different level of desired than Tanev and got 4 years at the same cap hit. Maybe you argue that injury concerns equalized that. Roussel, idk, but again 4 years and a slightly lower cap hit. 12M and 14M vs 21M.

The answer is to have a limit or not have a JJ contract.

I figure Hornqvist goes to Seattle if he’s not looking too hot or they think he’s near the cliff.

I don't think we can afford to worry about Seattle and expansion right now. We have a broken roster that needs fixing now. I think we deal with Seattle after we fix things now.

I'm not talking about the goaltending situation because that is a different animal. Personally I would keep both goaltenders because I am a believer in the two-goalie system and I like the idea of two guys who are around the same age battling to see which one becomes our true No. 1 after expansion, with the loser likely traded before expansion.

Or, we could deal Murray now as long as the return makes it worthwhile. But then I would want another goaltender brought in because I do not believe Jarry-DeSmith is good enough.
 

Speaking Moistly

What a terrible image.
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I don't think we can afford to worry about Seattle and expansion right now. We have a broken roster that needs fixing now. I think we deal with Seattle after we fix things now.

I'm not talking about the goaltending situation because that is a different animal. Personally I would keep both goaltenders because I am a believer in the two-goalie system and I like the idea of two guys who are around the same age battling to see which one becomes our true No. 1 after expansion, with the loser likely traded before expansion.

Or, we could deal Murray now as long as the return makes it worthwhile. But then I would want another goaltender brought in because I do not believe Jarry-DeSmith is good enough.

It’s not really a worry. If anything, they could be useful for taking a contract. Maybe it opens up a beneficial trade for the Pens.

I don’t disagree about the goalies but I think they’ll trade Murray, and I think JR would elect to keep both in an ideal world, tbh. The man likes his depth in net and I agree.
 

Peat

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Ferland was a different level of desired than Tanev and got 4 years at the same cap hit. Maybe you argue that injury concerns equalized that. Roussel, idk, but again 4 years and a slightly lower cap hit. 12M and 14M vs 21M.

The answer is to have a limit or not have a JJ contract.

I figure Hornqvist goes to Seattle if he’s not looking too hot or they think he’s near the cliff.

But with a full NMC for two years. And yes, a bunch more injury concerns. Give me Tanev and less of that crap. Vs Roussel, you're talking inflation.

And if I'm Seattle, Hornqvist isn't on my list and if Pittsburgh want to bribe me, I want a handsome one.

Reasons

1) I'm probably jonesing after Oshie because he's the hometown boy and ideal first captain material, and I don't want 10m+ tied up in elderly PP dependent RWs
2) Hornqvist will be a 34 year old with two years left on his contract then. That's just not good value for a building franchise
3) Pittsburgh have a bunch of high energy responsible forwards who've shown talent when with talent that I'd want more anyway

If I'm Seattle, I'm crossing my fingers for Blueger. If not, Tanev.
 

DatGuy

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But with a full NMC for two years. And yes, a bunch more injury concerns. Give me Tanev and less of that crap. Vs Roussel, you're talking inflation.

And if I'm Seattle, Hornqvist isn't on my list and if Pittsburgh want to bribe me, I want a handsome one.

Reasons

1) I'm probably jonesing after Oshie because he's the hometown boy and ideal first captain material, and I don't want 10m+ tied up in elderly PP dependent RWs
2) Hornqvist will be a 34 year old with two years left on his contract then. That's just not good value for a building franchise
3) Pittsburgh have a bunch of high energy responsible forwards who've shown talent when with talent that I'd want more anyway

If I'm Seattle, I'm crossing my fingers for Blueger. If not, Tanev.
Losing 1 of those 2 players is a small loss compared to other teams. Most teams are going to lose a top 6 forward or top 4 D.
 
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Peat

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Losing 1 of those 2 players is a small loss compared to other teams. Most teams are going to lose a top 6 forward or top 4 D.

Pretty much, which is why I don't want to go around paying off Seattle to take X.
 

The Great Mighty Poo

Thank You 59.
Feb 21, 2020
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Christ, I can't decide who's insulted by that one but feel both should be. Well played.
Was going back and forth between Seagal or Gary Busey, but at least when Busey just goes batshit f***ing nuts he's entertaining, Seagal has the personality of a UPS truck, and the charisma of a piece of drift wood.
 

Peat

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Was going back and forth between Seagal or Gary Busey, but at least when Busey just goes batshit f***ing nuts he's entertaining, Seagal has the personality of a UPS truck, and the charisma of a piece of drift wood.

All the goss I've heard says Seagal's just a flaming tire heap of a guy away from the stage too so at least JJ is ahead of him there.
 

vikingGoalie

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So the good thing is I went off on vacation camping and had zero internet for the last week, nothing. So I didn't watch the last two games until after i got back. Holy f'k nuts. I thought we were headed in the right direction of getting on track after game 2, I thought that was the best game Murray has played in the playoffs since we won a cup. But nope, he couldn't shut it down in game 3 (not entirely a fair statement) and game 4 all of our offense disappeared. If we had generated 50 shots on net and price just played out of his mind that's one thing. but low 20's in a do or die game? what the hell?

Murray should be gone next season, all indications are that he wants PAID and we should not be the team to do so. DeSmith actually was pushing him for the starting job the previous season and should be fine for our backup, let Jarry have the reigns and see where it goes. Hindsight is always better, but you gotta wonder if Jarry had started from game 1 on wards if the outcome would've been different.

Malkin. what do we do with him? when he gets angry he is still a force on the ice, we have seen time and again where someone ticks him off and he just kicks it into high gear. Why the hell does it take someone goading him to get him to play at that level? Sid was obviously trying but was also obviously not 100%, which is really troubling this long after surgery.

Tanev and the Bart line, what happened to our buzz saw line? Why couldn't we just put them out there and they skate like heck, dump the puck and forecheck like mad? We did it all season when all 3 were healthy and rarely saw it in the playoffs. 3rd line was a mess, McCann turned into McCan't and Marleau showed that he's just too old to be effective anymore, speaking of which is a 34 year old Hornqvist going to be effective next season, I'd keep him as he does stir up a lot of crap in front of the net but it's a huge question mark.

What the hell was letang doing on the game/series winner. that's his guy, at least lift the damn stick and be aware. we literally out manned them 4-2 in that play.
If we get the #1 overall pick, that would sooth our pain some, but still he's a LW and we are staring at the fact that our #1/#2 centers are gonna be in their mid 30's. Our #1 defensemen has very much lost a step, he is still elite skating wise but in the past Letang could chase down all but the fastest skaters in the league, which helped cover his mental gaffes.

We do have Marino which is incredible to help on defense, but Schultz is gone (good riddance), JJ needs to not play for us anymore and Pettersson was just meh this year.

My points are.

Our centers are getting old and will be capable of Elite play but only in bursts, and unknown if we will ever see elite play out of them in the playoffs again as we have not 2 post seasons in a row now, and only spurts 3 seasons ago.
2 of our top 6 defenders need to be jettison'd
a 3rd is questionable as a middle defender but *should* be ok next season.
and our #1 defensemen is pushing his mid 30's and father time catches all eventually.

our former #1 goalie needs to go unless he is willing to work a deal, so we'll have a guy who never had to handle the load for the whole season. I have confidence that Jarry can do it but it hasn't been proven.

our 3rd line needs blown up, our 4th line needs to actually show up.

SO how the heck do we fix all of that and be able to make one last run before Sid/Geno really are to old to drive play. I think we can get another year out of them at an elite level but at this age players tend to fall off a cliff all of a sudden.

Or are some here just saying, meh the team is solid but didn't have enough time to get their legs back and re-gel before the "playoff/play in round"

We win the lottery, what the heck go for it. Otherwise we need to start making some hard decisions.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
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Was going back and forth between Seagal or Gary Busey, but at least when Busey just goes batshit f***ing nuts he's entertaining, Seagal has the personality of a UPS truck, and the charisma of a piece of drift wood.

More like a beached whale these days.

stevenseagalrussiacitizen2016-500x461.jpg
 

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