Jack Hughes vs Suzuki vs Stützle

[Goomba]

Because unlike Stutzle, Hughes has failed to reach expectations in two years in the NHL.
Yes, it's still way to early to say he won't reach his potential, but I have the right to have some doubt.

JackHughes leads the league in takeaways, top-3 in zone entries and exits, and his advanced stats further are indicative of a guy controlling the ice every time hes on

what exactly did Stuetzle do besides score in the easiest division in hokey in decades?

 

[Adele Dazeem]

JackHughes leads the league in takeaways, top-3 in zone entries and exits, and his advanced stats further are indicative of a guy controlling the ice every time hes on

what exactly did Stuetzle do besides score in the easiest division in hokey in decades?

If Hughes is the player you're describing him to be currently, New Jersey wouldn't be in the bottom of the standings.
He's a soft center who gets pushed around quite easily. His offensive skill is up there, but defensively he leaves his team open.

Stutzle has his weaknesses, but considering he put up more points than Hughes in his first year; has a better shot, skates better I see him hitting his mark more likely than Hughes.

Also, this isn't a far-fetched opinion as you can tell from the results.

 

[Bileur]

JackHughes leads the league in takeaways, top-3 in zone entries and exits, and his advanced stats further are indicative of a guy controlling the ice every time hes on

what exactly did Stuetzle do besides score in the easiest division in hokey in decades?

Do you have a source for this?

 

[ricky0034]

If Hughes is the player you're describing him to be currently, New Jersey wouldn't be in the bottom of the standings.
He's a soft center who gets pushed around quite easily. His offensive skill is up there, but defensively he leaves his team open.

Stutzle has his weaknesses, but considering he put up more points than Hughes in his first year; has a better shot, skates better I see him hitting his mark more likely than Hughes.

Also, this isn't a far-fetched opinion as you can tell from the results.

even taken at face value i'm really not seeing the jump from any of this to "surefire 90 point guy"

Stutzle put up a 44 point pace this year but from the way people talk about him you'd think it was more like 70+

 

[Goomba]

Do you have a source for this?

Yeah, its common sense

 

[Goomba]

If Hughes is the player you're describing him to be currently, New Jersey wouldn't be in the bottom of the standings.
He's a soft center who gets pushed around quite easily. His offensive skill is up there, but defensively he leaves his team open.

Stutzle has his weaknesses, but considering he put up more points than Hughes in his first year; has a better shot, skates better I see him hitting his mark more likely than Hughes.

Also, this isn't a far-fetched opinion as you can tell from the results.

I wont entertain the conversation further since its obvious you have no idea about the player Jack Hughes

 

[Bileur]

Yeah, its common sense

You said it was the easiest division to score in hockey in decades.

I thought « wow that’s actually impressive if the North was that bad, he must have a source, nobody would go that far out on a limb just making things up. I’ll ask if he can share it. ».

Not sure what you’re getting pissy about. If you make wild claims people will ask you to substantiate them.

Also, 3 of the bottom 4 teams in the league in goals against this season were in the east. Doesn’t seem like it was very hard to score against Buffalo, Philadelphia or New Jersey which all let in more goals than Ottawa.

 

[Goomba]

You said it was the easiest division to score in hockey in decades.

I thought « wow that’s actually impressive if the North was that bad, he must have a source, nobody would go that far out on a limb just making things up. I’ll ask if he can share it. ».

Not sure what you’re getting pissy about. If you make wild claims people will ask you to substantiate them.

Also, 3 of the bottom 4 teams in the league in goals against this season were in the east. Doesn’t seem like it was very hard to score against Buffalo, Philadelphia or New Jersey which all let in more goals than Ottawa.

A division of only Canadian teams who have no businesses being top-10 minus Toronto, all playing each other all year. And if we included all teams in the standings, the Rangers and Stars did better than Montreal and missed the playoffs

Yes it is obviously the weakest division in a very long time, and I didnt think that needed to be spelled out.

The entire Canada division had one team in the top-10 in the NHL this year. For reference, the West had three, the East had three, and the Central had three.

 

[Bileur]

A division of only Canadian teams who have no businesses being top-10 minus Toronto, all playing each other all year. And if we included all teams in the standings, the Rangers and Stars did better than Montreal and missed the playoffs

Yes it is obviously the weakest division in a very long time, and I didnt think that needed to be spelled out.

The entire Canada division had one team in the top-10 in the NHL this year. For reference, the West had three, the East had three, and the Central had three.

If they were the « easiest division in hokey(sic) in decades » as you claimed you’d think it would be pretty easy to demonstrate. Instead you’re grasping at straws.

So the other divisions have two extra teams in the top 10 (with Edmonton having more wins than Boston but fewer loser points) than the North, remind me how many bottom five teams were in the North compared to the other divisions?

Right, there were none in the North while there were two in the East, two in the Central and one in the West. In fact, the East had two of the bottom three teams, including the Sabres who were on pace for an absolutely brutal season.

Aside from their team in the bottom five, the West had two other teams finish below the worst East team.

It’s inherently hard to compare the divisions given they didn’t play each other. Do you really think that guys like McDavid, Draisaltl, Matthews and Marner wouldn’t have done just as well playing in any other division? Do you really think it was easier for a rookie like Stutzle to score goals when he had to take the puck away from guys like that?

« [you] didn’t think it needed to be spelled out » go ahead man spell it out because so far you’re failing miserably. You’re going to have to provide significantly more evidence than what you have if you’re going to try to substantiate a claim that the North was the easiest in decades.

 

[Goomba]

If they were the « easiest division in hokey(sic) in decades » as you claimed you’d think it would be pretty easy to demonstrate. Instead you’re grasping at straws.

So the other divisions have two extra teams in the top 10 (with Edmonton having more wins than Boston but fewer loser points) than the North, remind me how many bottom five teams were in the North compared to the other divisions?

Right, there were none in the North while there were two in the East, two in the Central and one in the West. In fact, the East had two of the bottom three teams, including the Sabres who were on pace for an absolutely brutal season.

Aside from their team in the bottom five, the West had two other teams finish below the worst East team.

It’s inherently hard to compare the divisions given they didn’t play each other. Do you really think that guys like McDavid, Draisaltl, Matthews and Marner wouldn’t have done just as well playing in any other division? Do you really think it was easier for a rookie like Stutzle to score goals when he had to take the puck away from guys like that?

« [you] didn’t think it needed to be spelled out » go ahead man spell it out because so far you’re failing miserably. You’re going to have to provide significantly more evidence than what you have if you’re going to try to substantiate a claim that the North was the easiest in decades.

So since they didnt have bottom feeders, that means they werent the worst division... but somehow they had no top-10 teams minus Toronto and that means theyre good..?

Ill just end this here

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

If Hughes is the player you're describing him to be currently, New Jersey wouldn't be in the bottom of the standings.
He's a soft center who gets pushed around quite easily. His offensive skill is up there, but defensively he leaves his team open.

Stutzle has his weaknesses, but considering he put up more points than Hughes in his first year; has a better shot, skates better I see him hitting his mark more likely than Hughes.

Also, this isn't a far-fetched opinion as you can tell from the results.

You can’t be serious...

 

[Bileur]

So since they didnt have bottom feeders, that means they werent the worst division... but somehow they had no top-10 teams minus Toronto and that means theyre good..?

Ill just end this here

I didn’t say they were good. Let’s keep in mind you’re trying to demonstrate that the North was the easiest division in decades, I’m demonstrating that they clearly weren’t.

For illustration, the Atlantic in 2017-2018 had 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the league. Buffalo, Ottawa, Montréal, and Detroit, all brutal. All four teams having a lower points pace than the worst North team this season. Florida was a bubble team. Tampa, Boston and Toronto were good, all top 10. The games between Boston, Toronto and Tampa were tough, but it was pretty easy for them to rack up points against four bottom feeders.

That division was clearly worse overall than the North this year.

 

[tstracuzza]

even taken at face value i'm really not seeing the jump from any of this to "surefire 90 point guy"

Stutzle put up a 44 point pace this year but from the way people talk about him you'd think it was more like 70+

44 pt pace for the youngest full time player in the league is a good start. He’ll approach PPG within 2 seasons with potential to be even better. needs to get stronger on the puck and he’ll be dominating

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

If Hughes is the player you're describing him to be currently, New Jersey wouldn't be in the bottom of the standings.
He's a soft center who gets pushed around quite easily. His offensive skill is up there, but defensively he leaves his team open.

Stutzle has his weaknesses, but considering he put up more points than Hughes in his first year; has a better shot, skates better I see him hitting his mark more likely than Hughes.

Also, this isn't a far-fetched opinion as you can tell from the results.

First year you don't think Adam Fox is a top pairing defenseman and now this?

Honest question - do you have eyeballs?

 

[Adele Dazeem]

First year you don't think Adam Fox is a top pairing defenseman and now this?

Honest question - do you have eyeballs?

I look deeper than most. Your (and your colleagues) assessments are superficial.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I look deeper than most. Your (and your colleagues) assessments are superficial.

Okay, so let's hear your explanation for your opinion on Adam Fox.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Okay, so let's hear your explanation for your opinion on Adam Fox.

I'm not going to write a lengthy explanation about why I think Adam Fox shouldn't be considered a top-2 D on a thread that has nothing to do with him.

All I will say is look past the flashy point totals (which are highly inflated due to PP, Rangers forwards magically starting to score at a high rate + credit to the Rangers for having a solid group of forwards; and a superstar in Panarin helping out his teammates in that same vain)

Fox is a top-2 D if all you look at is his offensive contributions, but he's not offensively gifted like an Erik Karlsson; he's more comparable to a Mike Green or a John Klingberg. Defensively he's not physical which isn't necessary in order to be a top-2 D but saying he's got the defensive prowess of a top-2 D is extremely naive. He's young enough that becoming a top-2 D is within his trajectory; but two seasons doesn't justify that label.

 

[Samsquanch]

I would be truly devastated and outraged if the Sens traded Stutzle for Hughes. Like rage beyond words..

No point in getting involved in this debate, the poll results are a beacon of light in this oh so foggy and disjointed world we share together. And ill take the reprieve gracefully and sleep easy for tonight.

 

[KlefDown]

No disrespect to Hughes and Suzuki but Stutzle is far and away the best player of the three. This guy is going to be elite elite

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not going to write a lengthy explanation about why I think Adam Fox shouldn't be considered a top-2 D on a thread that has nothing to do with him.

All I will say is look past the flashy point totals (which are highly inflated due to PP, Rangers forwards magically starting to score at a high rate + credit to the Rangers for having a solid group of forwards; and a superstar in Panarin helping out his teammates in that same vain)

Fox is a top-2 D if all you look at is his offensive contributions, but he's not offensively gifted like an Erik Karlsson; he's more comparable to a Mike Green or a John Klingberg. Defensively he's not physical which isn't necessary in order to be a top-2 D but saying he's got the defensive prowess of a top-2 D is extremely naive. He's young enough that becoming a top-2 D is within his trajectory; but two seasons doesn't justify that label.

This analysis comes off very lazy. Fox is better defensively than offensively. Watch him play and you’d know this. Did you only look at his height and box score stats?

 

[Samsquanch]

First year you don't think Adam Fox is a top pairing defenseman and now this?

Honest question - do you have eyeballs?

Okay, so let's hear your explanation for your opinion on Adam Fox.

Double-checks thread title again..



Dont get me wrong I like Fox a lot. But like so many good young dmen in that 22-25 age range that post big numbers in their first few seasons, their is still a ways to go before we can determine what kind of player they will settle into becoming. And Fox has not done enough yet to be considered a sure fire top pairing dman (one that can be the man on a great team). So I would hold off on gloating and ramming him down everyones throats for the time being, personally.

Gostisbehere, Phaneuf, Faulk, Brodie, Klingberg, Meyers, Hamonic, Dumba, Severson. Ekman-Larsson, Fowler, Del Zotto, Mezaros, Lindholm - These are literally just some of the very promising young d-men that peaked offensively at around Fox's age (or younger), were hailed as premier top pairing players by their own fans almost immediately. And then they eventually matured and found their real place in the NHL as dmen - and that was for the most part closer to a 2nd pairing guy on a good team (or worse). And their numbers regressed.

Anyways, if we feel like we have to inject NYR ranger players into this poll, it should have honestly been Laffreniere and Kakko. And then take Stutzle out and swap in Hishier, all of a sudden this becomes a legit conversation...

>Laff
>Hughes
>Kakko
>Hischier
>Suzuki...or Kokta...

That is a FAR more intriguing thought experiment imo. Hischier and Suzuki are more accomplished than the rest as of now, and are good players already - but have lower ceilings than the rest imo. Kakko is anyones guess, and more comparable to Koktaneimie in reality (ie a tier below all of them).

Id lean towards Laff myself, but Hughes is the guy that could challenge him in their primes I think..

 

[Benstheman]

Suzuki is easily the best player right now. In the future, Stutzle will be a tier above the other two.

 

[RSeen]

If Hughes is the player you're describing him to be currently, New Jersey wouldn't be in the bottom of the standings.
He's a soft center who gets pushed around quite easily. His offensive skill is up there, but defensively he leaves his team open.

Stutzle has his weaknesses, but considering he put up more points than Hughes in his first year; has a better shot, skates better I see him hitting his mark more likely than Hughes.

Also, this isn't a far-fetched opinion as you can tell from the results.

Lol defensively he leaves his team open? He has been terrific defensively. Clearly you have not done your research.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Double-checks thread title again..



Dont get me wrong I like Fox a lot. But like so many good young dmen in that 22-25 age range that post big numbers in their first few seasons, their is still a ways to go before we can determine what kind of player they will settle into becoming. And Fox has not done enough yet to be considered a sure fire top pairing dman (one that can be the man on a great team). So I would hold off on gloating and ramming him down everyones throats for the time being, personally.

Gostisbehere, Phaneuf, Faulk, Brodie, Klingberg, Meyers, Hamonic, Dumba, Severson. Ekman-Larsson, Fowler, Del Zotto, Mezaros, Lindholm - These are literally just some of the very promising young d-men that peaked offensively at around Fox's age (or younger), were hailed as premier top pairing players by their own fans almost immediately. And then they eventually matured and found their real place in the NHL as dmen - and that was for the most part closer to a 2nd pairing guy on a good team (or worse). And their numbers regressed.

Anyways, if we feel like we have to inject NYR ranger players into this poll, it should have honestly been Laffreniere and Kakko. And then take Stutzle out and swap in Hishier, all of a sudden this becomes a legit conversation...

>Laff
>Hughes
>Kakko
>Hischier
>Suzuki...or Kokta...

That is a FAR more intriguing thought experiment imo. Hischier and Suzuki are more accomplished than the rest as of now, and are good players already - but have lower ceilings than the rest imo. Kakko is anyones guess, and more comparable to Koktaneimie in reality (ie a tier below all of them).

Id lean towards Laff myself, but Hughes is the guy that could challenge him in their primes I think..

Fox is better defensively than he is offensively. He'd be a top pairing defenseman if he never scored a point lol.

 

[Boxscore]

Stutzle, no question. The kid is going to be a special, special player.