Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 2

[Sabre Dance]

Eichel is a tremendous young man. I'de let him marry my wife.

Being a leader is something completely different. We all remember Thomas Vanek. Outstanding talent and player, just wasn't a leader. It's hard to describe what a leader is or does, but you just know who those players are. It's not always the most talented player on the team.

 

[SundherDome]

Where is he right? He gave nothing but his opinion. Where has Eichel demonstrably been a poor leader on the ice? I can’t think of any. I can, however, say factually that Eichel has donated PPE to nurses in the Buffalo area.

Off the ice, he is great, the flowers to the nurses were great as well. On the ice, the sulking, the stick breaking, the "I have to do this myself" mentality, the clashing with coaches, clashing with team doctors, the open ended answers that lead to speculation. The maturity isn't there and you need to have maturity to be a leader.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Off the ice, he is great, the flowers to the nurses were great as well. On the ice, the sulking, the stick breaking, the "I have to do this myself" mentality, the clashing with coaches, clashing with team doctors, the open ended answers that lead to speculation. The maturity isn't there and you need to have maturity to be a leader.

Just so we are clear, i never said he should win the award. I just don't think people should immediately be so critical of Eichel. He has done some good and i think the nomination makes sense. And for every stick snap and and sulking, i have seen him talking to the other guys on the bench and before face offs. My point being, you can't be sure his leadership isn't felt by those who are directly affected by eichel.

I think, to soften the blow of his potential trade, a lot of us are doing some mental gymnastics to convince ourselves that eichel is better off gone.

 

[haseoke39]

Eichel is a tremendous young man. I'de let him marry my wife.

Sounds like a personal problem.

 

[jc17]

Off the ice, he is great, the flowers to the nurses were great as well. On the ice, the sulking, the stick breaking, the "I have to do this myself" mentality, the clashing with coaches, clashing with team doctors, the open ended answers that lead to speculation. The maturity isn't there and you need to have maturity to be a leader.

Maybe he wouldn't have a "do it all myself" attitude if he didn't actually have to do it all himself

 

[2 others]

Off the ice, he is great, the flowers to the nurses were great as well. On the ice, the sulking, the stick breaking, the "I have to do this myself" mentality, the clashing with coaches, clashing with team doctors, the open ended answers that lead to speculation. The maturity isn't there and you need to have maturity to be a leader.

I didn't see that in the 19-20 season. If there was a little bit of that, the stick breaking for example, i totally understand that. It shows emotion and not being content with losing. He was carrying that team for months and ended up being frustrated about another lost season. Dahlin does the same thing.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Sounds like a personal problem.

While I agree, I try not to yuck other people's yum.

 

[Fezzy126]

Just so we are clear, i never said he should win the award. I just don't think people should immediately be so critical of Eichel. He has done some good and i think the nomination makes sense. And for every stick snap and and sulking, i have seen him talking to the other guys on the bench and before face offs. My point being, you can't be sure his leadership isn't felt by those who are directly affected by eichel.

I think, to soften the blow of his potential trade, a lot of us are doing some mental gymnastics to convince ourselves that eichel is better off gone.

During last season, Eichel was nearly universally praised for his growth as a leader. You're fighting an uphill battle against recency bias and fanbase bitterness/fatigue.

 

[SundherDome]

I didn't see that in the 19-20 season. If there was a little bit of that, the stick breaking for example, i totally understand that. It shows emotion and not being content with losing. He was carrying that team for months and ended up being frustrated about another lost season. Dahlin does the same thing.

I get the emotions but there needs to be a point where you stop it and take ownership that one of his blind passes was picked off and went into the net. Another thing I noticed and I have ZERO information to back this up and Covid may have played a role, but the sex ND they shut him down, we never heard or saw from him. I can't describe it but everyone knows a guy/gal like this and you wouldn't go through a brick wall for them.

 

[SundherDome]

Maybe he wouldn't have a "do it all myself" attitude if he didn't actually have to do it all himself

Completely agree. He hasn't had the support he has needed. But as a leader, you know it is not sustainable and need to incorporate your team. I just think of so many 1v3 or 1v4 he tried to do instead of dropping it back to the dman and salvaging the possession.

 

[TehDoak]

Unfortunately, I think its pretty hard for us, as fans to quantify what 'leadership' is in terms of a hockey player and locker room.

We are reliant on the hockey media to tell us what happens in the locker room, and frankly, Buffalo media is pretty terrible. Several media members told us that RoR wasn't a leader and was selfish for his 'losing the love of the game' comments before being traded, now he's St Louis's captain and Conn Smythe winner. As it turns out, he just doesn't like losing.

Am I saying Eichel is a leader? No. Other than him getting the captain's C, we have no evidence either way other than the on ice results, which aren't great.

But to the degree that the Buffalo media is plugged into the ins and outs of the locker room, they frankly are not other than brief glimpses after practice and games and his direct quotes.

I have no idea if Eichel is a leader in that locker room or not, simply because the only evidence we have is that the team isn't good and he wears the captains C.

 

[SundherDome]

Just so we are clear, i never said he should win the award. I just don't think people should immediately be so critical of Eichel. He has done some good and i think the nomination makes sense. And for every stick snap and and sulking, i have seen him talking to the other guys on the bench and before face offs. My point being, you can't be sure his leadership isn't felt by those who are directly affected by eichel.

I think, to soften the blow of his potential trade, a lot of us are doing some mental gymnastics to convince ourselves that eichel is better off gone.

I don't think anyone thinks he should win the award but he doesn't meet the criteria to even be nominated from what fans see. Maybe he is an incredible leader but from what we see, that does not seem to be the case. It seems like an effort to keep him and say "look how we value you". Again this is from a view we have as none of us are in the locker room or will admit we are a burner account. His talking on the bench or before a faceoff is a generic centerman item. He is either telling them where he is going or to get out of his way. I don't want to trade him and myself, personally, am not softening the blow or convincing myself we are better off without him. Any trade is going to be disappointing, lopsided blockbusters early happen anymore with the world we live in. My ideal situation is that he has the Ovechkin light go off and realize he won't win trying to do everything himself. He needs to play elite on all levels

 

[brian_griffin]

I get the emotions but there needs to be a point where you stop it and take ownership that one of his blind passes was picked off and went into the net. Another thing I noticed and I have ZERO information to back this up and Covid may have played a role, but the sex ND they shut him down, we never heard or saw from him. I can't describe it but everyone knows a guy/gal like this and you wouldn't go through a brick wall for them.

I get the emotions but there needs to be a point where you stop it and take ownership that one of his blind passes was picked off and went into the net. Another thing I noticed and I have ZERO information to back this up and Covid may have played a role, but the sex ND they shut him down, we never heard or saw from him. I can't describe it but everyone knows a guy/gal like this and you wouldn't go through a brick wall for them.

What does your second sentence mean? Typo?

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Off the ice, he is great, the flowers to the nurses were great as well. On the ice, the sulking, the stick breaking, the "I have to do this myself" mentality, the clashing with coaches, clashing with team doctors, the open ended answers that lead to speculation. The maturity isn't there and you need to have maturity to be a leader.

I did notice that almost every time he scores he celebrates by "himself". Very good teammates always pointing to teammate you getting the point. Look at Mark Stone for example. I'm just thinking he is too much ME. But that's my opinion. Sorry for messy sentences.

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

What does your second sentence mean? Typo?

The second they shut him down* I believe is what he meant. I did find it odd too that we saw him at like one game

 

[dugman]

The second they shut him down* I believe is what he meant. I did find it odd too that we saw him at like one game

.....against the Bruins, if we want to debate which team he was cheering for....

 

[SackTastic]

Maybe he wouldn't have a "do it all myself" attitude if he didn't actually have to do it all himself

I've had this argument with my management. For years I would get into a mode where I HAD to do certain things myself, and I'd get in a bad place about it. They kept saying 'Oh you don't NEED to do that, you just think you should." Eventually I proposed a test that I would just sit on my hands for those things for an entire quarter.

The point finally got made when that only lasted 3 weeks.

 

[SundherDome]

What does your second sentence mean? Typo?

With me, you can never be to sure, sex ND = second

 

[SundherDome]

I did notice that almost every time he scores he celebrates by "himself". Very good teammates always pointing to teammate you getting the point. Look at Mark Stone for example. I'm just thinking he is too much ME. But that's my opinion. Sorry for messy sentences.

Not that it is the end all be all, I ced Sam doing the Same this year, he would huddle but was leaving before the dmen even got to the huddle. I think the life has been sucked out of these guys and they are over it.

 

[joshjull]

very good in depth look at the situation

 

[Montag DP]

Eichel is a tremendous young man. I'de let him marry my wife.

Being a leader is something completely different. We all remember Thomas Vanek. Outstanding talent and player, just wasn't a leader. It's hard to describe what a leader is or does, but you just know who those players are. It's not always the most talented player on the team.

Where have I heard this argument before? Oh right, the ROR trade.

And no, you don't know who those players are. You're not in the locker room.

 

[Gras]

Could The Kraken Trade For Jack Eichel?

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Could The Kraken Trade For Jack Eichel?

I really like 1C. I think he's got a bright future. Definitely no interest in the cap hell slug LW2 though. Eff that guy.

 

[sabremike]

Could The Kraken Trade For Jack Eichel?

That proposed trade is a double win for them: Not only do they get Eichel a few years later they get a local rival in Portland when the Sabres end up relocating when the season ticket holder base fall below that of most AHL teams.

 

[Fjordy]

Could The Kraken Trade For Jack Eichel?

I hope not