Player Discussion Jack Eichel Part 2

[Fjordy]

If they trade Eichel before the NMC, they're still dealing from a position of weakness.

• Trade partners are automatically limited ; Not many teams are going to be able to take a $10M cap hit, especially with the financial structure of it, in a COVID recovery world. ( Even with the changes to escrow and help that the players gave the owners. )
• Teams know that if the Sabres are looking to move him, it's because Eichel asked for it.

In Eichel's case, the NMC just gives him the veto power control officially. He has most of that power already.

Either way, doesn't matter. Any circumstance that results in Eichel leaving town is the death knell of this franchise.

This is not entirely true. There are teams in the league that have a place in the cap for Eichel, we can also take cap in the opposite direction, to expand the potential pool of trading partners. It's just that when his NMC goes into effect he can just say I only want to play in Boston and the Pegulas will either have to keep Jack who doesn't want to be in Buffalo or trade him to Boston who offers Debrusk, Carlo and the rest of the bullshit. Of course, I don’t want them to trade Eichel, but they have to fix this disaster right now by at least firing Krueger and hiring an experienced NHL coach, and making a couple of deals, otherwise Eichel will still request an trade and leave in the summer or in a year. Islanders go to the playoffs without Tavares, Columbus lost 2-3 key players and still made it to the playoffs, sometimes only a strong coach is enough, and not an elite 1C. Of course, all this is on the owners.

 

[Jim Bob]

If they trade Eichel before the NMC, they're still dealing from a position of weakness.

• Trade partners are automatically limited ; Not many teams are going to be able to take a $10M cap hit, especially with the financial structure of it, in a COVID recovery world. ( Even with the changes to escrow and help that the players gave the owners. )
• Teams know that if the Sabres are looking to move him, it's because Eichel asked for it.

In Eichel's case, the NMC just gives him the veto power control officially. He has most of that power already.

Either way, doesn't matter. Any circumstance that results in Eichel leaving town is the death knell of this franchise.

The Sabres have way more options prior to the NMC kicking in.

Once it kicks in, Eichel could go all Skinner on the Sabres and limit it to one or two teams (Bos & NYR for instance) and that really limits the return the Sabres can expect.

The Sabres are unlikely to "win" an Eichel trade. But, they should get a better return the sooner they trade him.

 

[Fjordy]

The Sabres have way more options prior to the NMC kicking in.

Once it kicks in, Eichel could go all Skinner on the Sabres and limit it to one or two teams (Bos & NYR for instance) and that really limits the return the Sabres can expect.

The Sabres are unlikely to "win" an Eichel trade. But, they should get a better return the sooner they trade him.

This

 

[SackTastic]

The Sabres have way more options prior to the NMC kicking in.

Once it kicks in, Eichel could go all Skinner on the Sabres and limit it to one or two teams (Bos & NYR for instance) and that really limits the return the Sabres can expect.

The Sabres are unlikely to "win" an Eichel trade. But, they should get a better return the sooner they trade him.

Sure they have MORE options before the NMC, no denying that. They just don't have a TON of good partners today.

This goes to the structure of the Eichel deal. Most of the $10M+ deals are year by year, either heavy signing bonus/light salary, or near a 50/50 split. This helps deep pocketed owners who can just front the big payment at the start of the year and not have the larger ongoing paychecks during the season.

Eichel's deal only has 1 more season of big signing bonus. ( 22-23 ). Every other year on his deal is no bonus, all base salary. The list of other teams that currently have players with bases that high narrows considerably. Anything is workable, but the structure of the deal adds a lot more complexity to the possibilities.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

My apologies if that has been discussed before, but what are the chances that Eichel is part of the problem on this team? Put his fantastic skill aside and consider a couple of interesting points:

- Eichel's first year, there are reports of a rift between the veteran players and the young guys.
- Speculation that Bylsma was fired because Eichel spoke up (on behalf of the team?) about not liking his system. Cue the GMJE jokes.
- Rumored that ROR and Eichel weren't getting along or on the best of terms with each other. I don't buy for a moment that ROR's love of the game comments did him in. He went on to win the Conn Smythe and the Stanley Cup in the following year. That doesn't exactly scream problem player.
- Sulking Jack Eichel at the first few end of season press conference. His attitude only changed after they put the C on his sweater.
- Now it's clear that Eichel is either hurt or phoning it in. my money is on phoning it in. It's not a good look and it makes me wonder about him.

Again, no team gets better by trading away their number one center. We became demonstrably worse after trading ROR and he was technically just our 2C. It's just that some of Jack's history makes me wonder.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sure they have MORE options before the NMC, no denying that. They just don't have a TON of good partners today.

This goes to the structure of the Eichel deal. Most of the $10M+ deals are year by year, either heavy signing bonus/light salary, or near a 50/50 split. This helps deep pocketed owners who can just front the big payment at the start of the year and not have the larger ongoing paychecks during the season.

Eichel's deal only has 1 more season of big signing bonus. ( 22-23 ). Every other year on his deal is no bonus, all base salary. The list of other teams that currently have players with bases that high narrows considerably. Anything is workable, but the structure of the deal adds a lot more complexity to the possibilities.

They aren't going to have better partners after the NMC kicks in.

And as far as the structure of the deal goes, the issues of fitting a $10M cap hit are going to be similar now and down the road. I don't believe the actually cash out part of Eichel's deal will be a big factor for most of the teams that are rumored to be interested and have the ability to offer up a decent futures heavy package.

The only potential deal that isn't a huge step back in the short term is if Boston puts an offer together that centers around Pasta.

 

[joshjull]

My apologies if that has been discussed before, but what are the chances that Eichel is part of the problem on this team? Put his fantastic skill aside and consider a couple of interesting points:

- Eichel's first year, there are reports of a rift between the veteran players and the young guys.
- Speculation that Bylsma was fired because Eichel spoke up (on behalf of the team?) about not liking his system. Cue the GMJE jokes.
- Rumored that ROR and Eichel weren't getting along or on the best of terms with each other. I don't buy for a moment that ROR's love of the game comments did him in. He went on to win the Conn Smythe and the Stanley Cup in the following year. That doesn't exactly scream problem player.
- Sulking Jack Eichel at the first few end of season press conference. His attitude only changed after they put the C on his sweater.
- Now it's clear that Eichel is either hurt or phoning it in. my money is on phoning it in. It's not a good look and it makes me wonder about him.

Again, no team gets better by trading away their number one center. We became demonstrably worse after trading ROR and he was technically just our 2C. It's just that some of Jack's history makes me wonder.

The Disco situation was the room disliked him. Murray was reportedly shocked to hear this during his end of year meetings with all of the players. Which was a problem in itself and demonstrated how out of touch he was at GM.

You’re correct that ROR’s comments didn’t doom him. Botts was already shopping him before that year’s trade deadline. Jack and ROR are also good friends. So them disliking each other doesn’t hold much water as a reason for the trade either.

I think Jack’s a little banged up. The only person who has said otherwise is Krueger. Whose credibility is pretty much shot at this point with the nonsense from last week. Jack’s also not getting as much help as he could 5v5.

Jack isn’t the problem, just like ROR wasn’t either. The problem has been bad management/ownership decisions since the tank. Murray wasn’t the guy we needed coming out of tanking and Botts wasn’t the answer to fix the situation.

We’re always taking steps sideways and backwards as an organization. Never forward.

 

[Ygo]

Stars are the hardest thing to find in the NHL. Never give up a star unless a star is coming back (and you better be right). You can find all the other players through trades and free agency. Protect two things always... star players and cap space! Everything else you can find...

Btw, the problem with this team is they have missed on finding the complementary components year after year (Eakin and re-upping Girgs to bigger money than needed, Sobotka et al via the ROR trade, Miller for two 2nds, and on and on...).

And to compound the issue, they do not know who the better players are and consistently give more ice to players with worse outcomes (Pilut handling is very good example amongst many others).

 

[tsujimoto74]

My apologies if that has been discussed before, but what are the chances that Eichel is part of the problem on this team? Put his fantastic skill aside and consider a couple of interesting points:

- Eichel's first year, there are reports of a rift between the veteran players and the young guys.
- Speculation that Bylsma was fired because Eichel spoke up (on behalf of the team?) about not liking his system. Cue the GMJE jokes.
- Rumored that ROR and Eichel weren't getting along or on the best of terms with each other. I don't buy for a moment that ROR's love of the game comments did him in. He went on to win the Conn Smythe and the Stanley Cup in the following year. That doesn't exactly scream problem player.
- Sulking Jack Eichel at the first few end of season press conference. His attitude only changed after they put the C on his sweater.
- Now it's clear that Eichel is either hurt or phoning it in. my money is on phoning it in. It's not a good look and it makes me wonder about him.

Again, no team gets better by trading away their number one center. We became demonstrably worse after trading ROR and he was technically just our 2C. It's just that some of Jack's history makes me wonder.

-OK
-None of the players like Bylsma. Murray was, apparently, shocked to learn that when, after the season ended, he decided to finally talk to any of his players.
-Eichel and ROR are still friends. This rumor was dumb then and it's dumb now.
-This is just you seeing what you want to see
-See above

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

-OK
-None of the players like Bylsma. Murray was, apparently, shocked to learn that when, after the season ended, he decided to finally talk to any of his players.
-Eichel and ROR are still friends. This rumor was dumb then and it's dumb now.
-This is just you seeing what you want to see
-See above

I am a firm believer in the saying "if there is smoke there is fire." So i definitely do not have the full picture of everything that has happened behind closed doors, but i think it still warrants some speculation. I am not necessarily advocating we get rid of Jack. We will set the franchise back another decade if we give up our only player with elite talent.

As for the seeing what i want to see - maybe? It's possible that i am a victim of confirmation bias, but i gotta tell you that there have been a few shifts where he has looked a lot like Pierre Luc Dubois. That is not how i remember eichel playing last year. He had become one of the team's more prolific back checkers. That drive isn't there this year. Or at least, i haven't seen it.

 

[Fjordy]

It's not about giving up Jack, it's about doing it before he gives up Buffalo, and he definitely do it with these clowns at the helm.

 

[fm]

If you're Boston, why would you trade Pastrnak for Eichel? lol

 

[Flash20]

If you're Boston, why would you trade Pastrnak for Eichel? lol

That's not enough

 

[joshjull]

 

[Fjordy]

If you're Boston, why would you trade Pastrnak for Eichel? lol

They will not, they will wait until Eichel's NMC comes into force and he asks for trade in Boston, then they will offer Debrusk and all the rest of the nonsense, and our clowns will agree.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Stars are the hardest thing to find in the NHL. Never give up a star unless a star is coming back (and you better be right). You can find all the other players through trades and free agency. Protect two things always... star players and cap space! Everything else you can find...

The Sabres have Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin, Hall, Skinner.....and others.

The Buffalo Sabres suck. Sooner or later the responsibilty lays at the feet of the players. What coach will they bring in next that they won't like or perform for?

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

If we trade this guy for a package of quantity over quality I am burning my jerseys and becoming a Kraken fan

 

[joshjull]

 

[joshjull]

 

[TheMistyStranger]

If we trade this guy for a package of quantity over quality I am burning my jerseys and becoming a Kraken fan

The only deal I feel like I'd be kinda okay with is with LA, that sees Buffalo acquire Turcotte, Byfield, Iafallo, ++.

 

[joshjull]

 

[joshjull]

The fact that the idea of trading him is coming from our end is just terrifying.


It can always get worse. The Sabres will find a way.

 

[Sabre the Win]

My apologies if that has been discussed before, but what are the chances that Eichel is part of the problem on this team? Put his fantastic skill aside and consider a couple of interesting points:

- Eichel's first year, there are reports of a rift between the veteran players and the young guys.
- Speculation that Bylsma was fired because Eichel spoke up (on behalf of the team?) about not liking his system. Cue the GMJE jokes.
- Rumored that ROR and Eichel weren't getting along or on the best of terms with each other. I don't buy for a moment that ROR's love of the game comments did him in. He went on to win the Conn Smythe and the Stanley Cup in the following year. That doesn't exactly scream problem player.
- Sulking Jack Eichel at the first few end of season press conference. His attitude only changed after they put the C on his sweater.
- Now it's clear that Eichel is either hurt or phoning it in. my money is on phoning it in. It's not a good look and it makes me wonder about him.

Again, no team gets better by trading away their number one center. We became demonstrably worse after trading ROR and he was technically just our 2C. It's just that some of Jack's history makes me wonder.

I'm starting to see threw his shit too, all the talent in the world doesn't mean he has a great personality or leadership abilities.

 

[SabresFan26]

I'm starting to see threw his shit too, all the talent in the world doesn't mean he has a great personality or leadership abilities.

Not to get into here say but this is my thoughts as well. The Sabres are bad because of their culture. They haven’t talent now unlike a few years ago. Culture is built by its leaders, who are its leaders? Eichel as captain, Okposo as an assistant, Krueger as HC and Pegulas at the top.
If the vision is to achieve a sustainable championship contender, then the current behavior and on ice habits are far from those whom are competing for championships.

Starts with cutting the head off and getting winners in here. Jack is immensely talented but we can’t get much worse without him.

 

[sabremike]

The fact that the idea of trading him is coming from our end is just terrifying.


It can always get worse. The Sabres will find a way.

Even better: They are pulling the same exact con they did with ROR: Get the message that "he wanted a trade" out when in fact they were actively shopping him and looking to trade him.