Blue Jays Discussion: It's the off-season. Stuff might happen. Or it might not.

[Cloned]

Atlanta was one hot 8th inning away from winning 2 games by scoring 2 runs in 22 innings.

 

[phillipmike]

Was looking at Braves-Dodgers type move from 2017 to clear money for us this year and to help the Angels spread their money around.

To the Angels:
CF Randal Grichuk (10.33M for the next 3 years)
SP Tanner Roark (12M for 1 season)
SP Ross Stripling (Arb eligible - 2-3M)
SS Santiago Espinal
Total: 25M for 2020 and 40-50M in total

To the Jays:
1B/DH Albert Pujols (30M for 1 season)
CF Jahmai Jones
Total: 30M for 2020 and 30M+ in total

Trade Value:

Rationale:

Angels: LA saves about 5-6M and opens up the DH spot for Ohtani and rest. They get 2 backend starters in Roark and Stripling, the latter who they tried to acquire and a SS to potentially replace Simmons if he walks. Angels pretty much spread out Albert's 30M to 3 needs on the diamond and Grichuk.

Grichuk goes to the team that drafted him and LA could hope he catches lightning in a bottle and move him around from OF to DH to give some players the night off or trade him.

Blue Jays: Jays will likely release Pujols at an additional cost of 5-6M for 2021 but clear Grichuk's 10.33M for 2022 and 2023. They get their CFer of the future in Jahmai Jones. Jones has great speed, walk rate, on base and a CF defense. Jones is blocked by Trout, Adell, Upton and now Grichuk. Marsh and Adams are ahead of him on the prospect depth chart too.

Not ideal for the Jays to 5-6M like that this year but this move would improve their CF and they still would only have only 89M committed to the 2021 team with Pujols' 30M. But clearing 10M in 2022 and 2023 would help our window a lot. 89M this off-season would give us 40-70M to spend, depending how much ownership gave us. Still a lot of money to get 2-3 starters and a bat. Jays save even more money if they non-tender Shaw and Drury.

Jays could use the long term money save to push for Vladdy, Bichette and Hernandez extensions.

Other Option - Houston: Another trade option for Grichuk is Houston. All three of their OFs are hitting free agency in Springer, Brantley and Reddick. Grichuk is from Houston.

 

[Garlando]

One name I'm interested in during free agency is Jurickson Profar. He's 27, capable of playing numerous positions (likely a corner infielder/4th OFer role on the Jays with the ability to fill in at 2B/SS if injuries arrive), and can comfortably provide league-average starter value across the board.

He's coming off a bounce-back year in SD where he hit .278/.343/.428 with 7 HRs and 7 SBs over 202 PAs. That came with an impressive 13.9% strikeout rate along with a 7.4% walk rate which highlights a quality plate discipline profile. He's not a guy that hits the ball terribly hard as evidenced by his 87.2 MPH avg EV and .150 ISO, but his ability to find the barrel of the bat and his launch angle easily support 20-ish HRs, and when coupled with his plate discipline and OBP skills, he's a clear positive value hitter IMO. All told, he was worth a 111 wRC+ this past year.

Defensively, he's played literally every position except C and P as a major leaguer at some point. While Fangraphs and Baseball Savant don't love his recent infield defense outside of 1B, I believe that he is plenty capable of handling 3B/1B for the Jays next year. He alternatively is ranked highly by Fangraphs for his OF defense and believes he is an excellent option out in LF or RF. That sort of versatility could be great for the team in the event that guys like Groshans/Martin start pushing down the door looking for a promotion.

He was worth 1.3 fWAR this past season (prorates to 3.2 WAR over 500 PAs) which would have ranked 3rd on the Blue Jays this year, 0.1 ahead of Lourdes Gurriel Jr. I think he's a great option for the Jays due to his versatility and steady skills, plus he probably won't cost a ton.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Doesn't seem like he had his best stuff. Or even his less-than-best stuff.

Or that Montoya extra day of rest messed him up?

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Okay what order do you resign these SPs?(This is my order)

Shoemaker
Ray
Walker

Also if there was any chance CM was fired who do you replace him with?

 

[The Nemesis]

Or that Montoya extra day of rest messed him up?

Why blame Montoyo when you can assume he's a literal giant marionette being operated by Ross Atkins?

We need a serious upgrade on Grichuk.

Grichuk is fine. He shouldn't be the everyday CF, but as a workable OF with a decent, above-average bat with some pop he does his job well enough. The only issue with him is that with Gurriel and Hernandez entrenched on the corners there's not much to do with him except leave him in the less-than-ideal CF spot (And you can't take Hernandez out of the OF without creating a 1b/dh logjam with Vlad and Rowdy)

 

[aingefan]

The next wave sure is a confident bunch, aren’t they?

And I don’t remember a group of young/new players being sooooo focused on playoffs/winning as a team, building towards championships....mostly they just spout the usual rhetoric like ‘do my best’ or ‘help the team’.

Its kind of encouraging.

 

[dredeye]

Love the kids coming up being this confident.

 

[Eyedea]

Why waste time trade for CF when Austin Martin do trick

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Jozay]

Lol, would be funny if some of those guys get traded for a SP.

Gotta think it might happen this offseason.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

I can't believe no sports for a longtime.
Whens the next baseball ball event?

 

[BigBlu]

Was looking at Braves-Dodgers type move from 2017 to clear money for us this year and to help the Angels spread their money around.

To the Angels:
CF Randal Grichuk (10.33M for the next 3 years)
SP Tanner Roark (12M for 1 season)
SP Ross Stripling (Arb eligible - 2-3M)
SS Santiago Espinal
Total: 25M for 2020 and 40-50M in total

To the Jays:
1B/DH Albert Pujols (30M for 1 season)
CF Jahmai Jones
Total: 30M for 2020 and 30M+ in total

Trade Value:

Rationale:
Angels: LA saves about 5-6M and opens up the DH spot for Ohtani and rest. They get 2 backend starters in Roark and Stripling, the latter who they tried to acquire and a SS to potentially replace Simmons if he walks. Angels pretty much spread out Albert's 30M to 3 needs on the diamond and Grichuk.

Grichuk goes to the team that drafted him and LA could hope he catches lightning in a bottle and move him around from OF to DH to give some players the night off or trade him.

Blue Jays: Jays will likely release Pujols at an additional cost of 5-6M for 2021 but clear Grichuk's 10.33M for 2022 and 2023. They get their CFer of the future in Jahmai Jones. Jones has great speed, walk rate, on base and a CF defense. Jones is blocked by Trout, Adell, Upton and now Grichuk. Marsh and Adams are ahead of him on the prospect depth chart too.

Not ideal for the Jays to 5-6M like that this year but this move would improve their CF and they still would only have only 89M committed to the 2021 team with Pujols' 30M. But clearing 10M in 2022 and 2023 would help our window a lot. 89M this off-season would give us 40-70M to spend, depending how much ownership gave us. Still a lot of money to get 2-3 starters and a bat. Jays save even more money if they non-tender Shaw and Drury.

Jays could use the long term money save to push for Vladdy, Bichette and Hernandez extensions.

Other Option - Houston: Another trade option for Grichuk is Houston. All three of their OFs are hitting free agency in Springer, Brantley and Reddick. Grichuk is from Houston.

The 5-6M extra payroll would easily be covered by the fact that our obligation to Tulo drops from 14M this year to 4M next year.

I don't know too much about Jones, but if he's got legit upside then it's an investment/gamle on par with dozens of international signings that go nowhere...

The slight bitter pill to swallow would be including Stripling, considering the price we paid to acquire him.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

if they hit goddamn do we have some big guns coming soon

 

[phillipmike]

I can't believe no sports for a longtime.
Whens the next baseball ball event?

NFL:
Regular Season just started

NBA:
-Finals is currently on
-Draft and free agency opens in at the end of October, perhaps early November
-Season likely starts in January

NHL:
-Draft on Oct 6th (4 days)
-Free agency Oct 9th
-Season starts some time in January

MLB:
-Playoffs is still on
-I expect MLB free agency to open up sometime in November which will be a big off-season for the Jays
-Spring Training starts on February 27th - so 5 months

Looks like the Jays, Raptors and Leafs will be having some big off-seasons coming up which will be big. Raptors will be undergoing a change with Ibaka, Gasol and FVV as free agents perhaps gearing up for the 2021 free agency with Giannis, Kawhi and others available. Leafs are coming off a very disappointing season but a top 5 defensemen in Pietrangelo might be available along with other trades. And the Jays will be big buyers to help this young core contend. Huge next few months for Toronto Sports.

 

[Cloned]

NFL:
Regular Season just started

NBA:
-Finals is currently on
-Draft and free agency opens in at the end of October, perhaps early November
-Season likely starts in January

NHL:
-Draft on Oct 6th (4 days)
-Free agency Oct 9th
-Season starts some time in January

MLB:
-Playoffs is still on
-I expect MLB free agency to open up sometime in November which will be a big off-season for the Jays
-Spring Training starts on February 27th - so 5 months

Looks like the Jays, Raptors and Leafs will be having some big off-seasons coming up which will be big. Raptors will be undergoing a change with Ibaka, Gasol and FVV as free agents perhaps gearing up for the 2021 free agency with Giannis, Kawhi and others available. Leafs are coming off a very disappointing season but a top 5 defensemen in Pietrangelo might be available along with other trades. And the Jays will be big buyers to help this young core contend. Huge next few months for Toronto Sports.

Problem is that the 3 out of the big 4 have never more or less ended their seasons at the same time, which is kind of happening here. Usually you'd have baseball ending now with hockey and basketball close to restarting. This year we have to wait until next April for baseball again, and probably December/January for hockey and basketball.

 

[Gargyn]

I would take this and Shoemaker as a 6th starter and Aaron Sanchez on a minor league deal for the backed of the pen.

For some reason I think Walker will get too much money. More than I would be willing to pay with his injury history. Perhaps the Jays revisit their McGuire-Musgrove trade with the Bucs in the off-season.

Bauer
Ryu
Pearson
Musgrove
Ray
Shoemaker

Even guys like Quintana, Happ, Paxton, or Odorizzi would be solid.

Jays need a 3B. I would prefer to move Bichette to 3B and get a SS like Simmons or Semien. If not then go after a 3B; Dematheiu, Turner and Fletcher in that order.

Getting rid of Roark and/or Grichuk’s contract would be nice too. Getting a real CF would be nice.

Agreed with all of this. Would love a 3B to fill in until Groshans can prove he’s ready or Martin depending if he plays the infield. And yes, Grichuk is the odd man out in the outfield. We need a better defensive CF but also a guy who can hit. I love your pitching suggestions. Shoemaker seems content on coming back, Ray was pretty good for the most part and a guy like Musgrove would provide good depth. But most importantly we need a big gun like Bauer. Manoah, Kloff and SWR aren’t ready for another couple years.

 

[Discoverer]

Why waste time trade for CF when Austin Martin do trick

When you GM, they see. They see.

 

[Kurtz]

So this hasn't been discussed much, but we're below average to awful defensively at like every single position. Should we try to address this through fa through guys like Simmons/Jackie Bradley, or do we just double down on our strengths and hope that they young guys improve defensively?

 

[Suntouchable13]

So this hasn't been discussed much, but we're below average to awful defensively at like every single position. Should we try to address this through fa through guys like Simmons/Jackie Bradley, or do we just double down on our strengths and hope that they young guys improve defensively?

That’s my concern too. We have a really good core, but defensively they are yeesh.

 

[Epictetus]

Wait, Musgrove for Mcguire trade talks happened?

 

[Eyedea]

So this hasn't been discussed much, but we're below average to awful defensively at like every single position. Should we try to address this through fa through guys like Simmons/Jackie Bradley, or do we just double down on our strengths and hope that they young guys improve defensively?

Shaw (3B), Biggio (2B), Tellez (1B), Jansen (C) I’d say are all above average options. Yes Jansen struggles with runners but over a full season I think his game-calling and framing are great. Shaw might not be a longterm option but then we have a potential plus defender in Groshans in the pipeline. Gurriel is still progressing well at LF considering that’s a new position for him, and there’s hope of Bichette sticking at SS. If anything, Groshans might even push him over to 3B. Secondary options in Espinal, Davis, Kirk, McGuire, are good. Grichuk’s bad at CF, Vladdy probably shouldn’t be in the field, and Teoscar likely is what he is (replacement to poor corner OF).

I think you can only hope that Bichette and Gurriel improve defensively. Biggio definitely shouldn’t play anything other than 2B though.

 

[Discoverer]

So this hasn't been discussed much, but we're below average to awful defensively at like every single position. Should we try to address this through fa through guys like Simmons/Jackie Bradley, or do we just double down on our strengths and hope that they young guys improve defensively?

The only real changes I would want to make defensively would be to replace Grichuk with an actual CF and pick a position for Biggio and leave him there to get better rather than having him be mediocre at a bunch of places. Then you can maybe put a bit of extra emphasis on defense when you at a 3B if you really want to.

And unless they can move Grichuk and bring in a good CF, I wouldn't bother with someone like Bradley. I would just keep Davis as the 4th OF and make sure he plays CF any time he's in the lineup.

 

[Epictetus]

Someone like Kyle Seager ain't a bad target for third.