Blue Jays Discussion: It's the off-season. Stuff might happen. Or it might not.

[SDig14]

Thanks. But you don't trade your 4th/5th ranked pitching prospect, drafted in the 2nd round, for somebody you're probably sticking in the pen. That's not value. It also drives down whatever league-value Stripling might have. We couldn't reverse that trade now with the disregard we've shown our own new player. After all, he's "not quite good enough to start for us".

And if you're looking for more pitching, that could have been Kendall in 2 years with many more years of control.

Don't get me wrong, if you identify Stripling as a cog you believe in and want to add, then maybe you make that trade. And then you hand him a spot and let him prove it.

But the way it's panning out, it seems Ross/Mark just had some spare change burning a hole in their pocket.

Well, Atkins basically said they didn't have Williams in their top 15 prospects, so they obviously see him a lot further away than 2 years, even more when you consider prospects aren't even playing.

And even if we added a Bauer, that's like Bauer and Ryu and then everyone else. After that Stripling has as good a shot as anyone. I love Pearson, but he hasn't exactly pitched many innings, Ray is wild and Roark eats some innings but isn't very good.

It's likely a combination of the fact they still see him as a starter and they value Williams less than you do.

 

[Discoverer]

Thanks. But you don't trade your 4th/5th ranked pitching prospect, drafted in the 2nd round, for somebody you're probably sticking in the pen. That's not value. It also drives down whatever league-value Stripling might have. We couldn't reverse that trade now with the disregard we've shown our own new player. After all, he's "not quite good enough to start for us".

And if you're looking for more pitching, that could have been Kendall in 2 years with many more years of control.

Don't get me wrong, if you identify Stripling as a cog you believe in and want to add, then maybe you make that trade. And then you hand him a spot and let him prove it.

But the way it's panning out, it seems Ross/Mark just had some spare change burning a hole in their pocket.

I like Williams and was disappointed to see him traded, but Stripling is a valuable pitcher whether he's a regular starter or a swing man (like he was in LA).

And if you think the timeline for a guy who just turned 20 and has 16 professional innings under his belt in the GCL is two years, then you're probably higher on Williams than just about anyone else.

 

[SpezDispenser]

What an acquisition Springer would be.

 

[supermann_98]

What an acquisition Springer would be.

Yeah he’d make the offense legit. Still gotta get another starter tho, and I’d hope we revisit Tijuan Walker. He was pretty sick in his short time here

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Pipe down there Ross, Ray did not dominate.



Interesting way to put it, we "lost" Shoemaker and Walker. Wondering if that means we have moved off them.

I mean he didn't say he did dominate. He said he has shown the ability to dominate. Which Ray definitely has the ability to do and has shown it in the past.

 

[Eyedea]

Pipe down there Ross, Ray did not dominate.

“Shown the ability” is just facts though. The slider is nasty and he was still generating swings and missing bats. He might not be what he was in prior years but he can still be a solid backend option for the club.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

If you can have Bauer for 30M or Tanaka and Paxton for the same who do you choose?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Not a big fan of Stripling. I think he was a good pump and dump for the Dodgers and has a down arrow for me.

Having said that, Williams wasn't that great a loss and the Jays likely didnt evaluate him as high after getting him in the system. Depending on who else we traded it wasn't a bad trade, and Stripling can maybe ride his backspin fastball + downer breaker for a few years in a new league that hasn't seen him much yet as a 4/5 or swingman.

 

[The Nemesis]

Well, Atkins basically said they didn't have Williams in their top 15 prospects, so they obviously see him a lot further away than 2 years, even more when you consider prospects aren't even playing.

And even if we added a Bauer, that's like Bauer and Ryu and then everyone else. After that Stripling has as good a shot as anyone. I love Pearson, but he hasn't exactly pitched many innings, Ray is wild and Roark eats some innings but isn't very good.

It's likely a combination of the fact they still see him as a starter and they value Williams less than you do.

As an addition, right now Williams is MLB Pipeline's #23 Dodgers prospect and carries a 45 FV and 2023 ETA. Fangraphs had him at (I think) 13th in the Jays system pre-trade and graded him a 40 FV with a 2024 ETA.

Basically they're saying that the current projected top end for Williams is that he becomes a Stripling type. 4/5/swing pitcher. Given that's also not exactly a high value FA role, Stripling's cost as a free agent should likely not be terribly significant so while there is control/cost savings, it's not like it's the difference between paying a guy peanuts and $15m a season. Stripling is making $2.1m this season and isn't FA eligible until 2023 too.

i'd take the financial hit to have the similar piece now instead of 3-4 years from now. And it's not like the Jays aren't flush with pitchers in the minor leagues who should mitigate whatever hole is left by Williams' departure.

 

[Greek_physique]

If you can have Bauer for 30M or Tanaka and Paxton for the same who do you choose?

Bauer

1x2 punch of him and Ryu would be great

 

[phillipmike]

1 player every fanbase is focused on

Blue Jays: DJ LeMahieu, 2B*

The Blue Jays have a huge opening at third base (yes, it would be a position switch), a young team in need of some veteran guidance and, at least theoretically, a little more money to spendthan some other teams might. Blue Jays fans aren’t alone in dreaming this; Toronto is MLB Trade Rumors’ pick to land the batting champ.

 

[phillipmike]

Mitchell: If Jays don’t make an impact signing it’s probably a disappointment

At the 5:30 Mark Mitchell says the Jays were after Kluber last offseason but rejected the Indians offer of Kluber for Kirk.

I wonder if the Jays go after him for free now.

Also that’s 2 trade Kirk was rumored to be in. Kluber in the offseason and Musgrove at the deadline. I’m wondering if that is still their motivation or if Kirk has proven enough to stay around.

At the 5:50 mark he mentioned 2 of Groshans, Gurriel and Kirk might be a good deal for Lindor and Carrasco. He used the Dodgers deal for Betts and Price as the framework.

 

[SDig14]

I'd assume they're not targeting Simmons for an everyday role, so what term and money will be a fair deal for someone like him?

 

[Cor]

Would Ryu-Bauer be the best Blue Jays 1-2 combo since Doc and Burnett?

 

[Cor]

I'd assume they're not targeting Simmons for an everyday role, so what term and money will be a fair deal for someone like him?

MLBTR predicts him to get a 1 year, 12M deal. (They have him going to the Yankees)

 

[LeafChief]

Would Ryu-Bauer be the best Blue Jays 1-2 combo since Doc and Burnett?

I'd imagine so.

 

[phillipmike]

Would Ryu-Bauer be the best Blue Jays 1-2 combo since Doc and Burnett?

For a full season I would agree.

Though Price-Stroman was lights out too.

 

[Garlando]

A flier on Drew Smyly might be worth a look after he quietly made some big gains last year in SF. While it is a small sample of just 26.1 innings last year, he posted the following:

- 3.42 ERA that hid a dominate 2.01 FIP and 2.86 SIERA

He did so by gaining 2.6 MPH and just under 200 RPMs on his FB (most of any SP), while also changing his pitch mix to feature his curveball 36% of the time.

His curveball was straight nasty eliciting a 40.8% chase rate, a 43.7% zone rate, and a ridiculous 22.4% Swinging-strike rate. The result is that his K% jumped from 23.3% to 37.8% which for reference would have ranked 3rd best in the majors if he had enough innings to qualify.

I have little to no expectation of that level of performance going forward for Smyly and he has had injury issues in his career, but his changes are notable and he’s likely a guy that can be had at an affordable rate and term.

 

[The Nemesis]

I've been meaning to fix this all day, but we're over 1k posts and have to swap out for a new thread.

sorry if anyone is trying to post something right now. I'll have the new thread up in a minute or two.

New thread: Blue Jays Discussion: - Off-season Pt II: It's the off-season in November!... Wait. That's normal for baseball.