Post-Game Talk: It's the End of the World as we know it, and we feel fine (Part 2)

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He's done a lot of good things. I'd want to keep him as well if I believed he actually could clean house. I'm pissed about him playing it way too safe the last 5 years, but I don't hold grudges. I wouldn't mind seeing him retained if he wised up and realized his mistakes. Instead of trying to push forward with the moves he already made, undo them. But I can't see him doing all of that unless he was forced to. And if he has to be forced to do so, then there's no need for him to be our GM.

That's actually a really succinct and common sense way of looking at it. Well put.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'd much rather trade Kunitz AND Dupuis than Neal.

Cleanse the team of KCD. I'll get the sage, at least I think it's sage, we'll work that out later.

 

[mpp9]

I'm still a Shero supporter.

His patience can be good and bad, as anyone whose followed the fortunes of our players and our fanbase's consequent torch and pitchfork outings will agree. I think he's very much a net positive, and I'm interested to see how he cleans house this summer.

As for Neal, in spite of a poor playoffs, I thought he was one of our best forwards in Game 7 outside of that dumb penalty. He was working and generating chances, and backchecking well too.

I think Neal will get dealt as a shakeup move. I wouldn't move him unless we get a forward who better fits the role of nasty, net front presence, create your own offense type though.

As for Shero, he should have fired DB last summer. He tied his fate to DB IMO. He's a patient guy and that has it's positives. But he also hasn't built this team around Crosby and Malkin. He didn't communicate with DB with the Iggy fiasco. The Scuds contract is close to dead weight. And we have several players signed until they're 38 and several others with NTCs.

He deserves alot of blame for where this team is at. I agree with you in that this isn't even close to being all on DB. The players share some. And so does management.

I dont' trust him to begin a new era where we do right by Sid and Geno. Exploit our strengths. If he's kept, there isn't a doubt in my mind Trotz is here next. And the guy has zip experience coaching generational talents or even close to that level of player. And it'll give him all the more reason to build this team like he did in Nashville. Continue his emphasis on using valuable cap room on defense. And possibly alot of the same negatives from the previous coaching staff/system will carry over.

New set of eyes. New beginning if it were up to me.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He's done a lot of good things. I'd want to keep him as well if I believed he actually could clean house. I'm pissed about him playing it way too safe the last 5 years, but I don't hold grudges. He does bring a lot to the table. He's has some pretty good deadlines. Biggest downfall is not being able to let go of 2009. So I wouldn't mind seeing him retained if he wised up and realized his mistakes. Instead of trying to push forward with the moves he already made, undo them. But I can't see him doing all of that unless he was forced to. And if he has to be forced to do so, then there's no need for him to be our GM.

"Forced to" in what respect? By the higher-ups or by our unacceptable defeat this year?

 

[KIRK]

I think Neal will get dealt as a shakeup move. I wouldn't move him unless we get a forward who better fits the role of nasty, net front presence, create your own offense type though.

As for Shero, he should have fired DB last summer. He tied his fate to DB IMO. He's a patient guy and that has it's positives. But he also hasn't built this team around Crosby and Malkin. He didn't communicate with DB with the Iggy fiasco. The Scuds contract is close to dead weight. And we have several players signed until they're 38 and several others with NTCs.

He deserves alot of blame for where this team is at. I agree with you in that this isn't even close to being all on DB. The players share some. And so does management.

I dont' trust him to begin a new era where we do right by Sid and Geno. Exploit our strengths. If he's kept, there isn't a doubt in my mind Trotz is here next. And the guy has zip experience coaching generational talents or even close to that level of player. And it'll give him all the more reason to build this team like he did in Nashville. Continue his emphasis on using valuable cap room on defense. And possibly alot of the same negatives from the previous coaching staff/system will carry over.

New set of eyes. New beginning if it were up to me.

Kind of where I keep ending up when I try to see-- not agree with, but just to see-- the other side of the argument.

 

[BHD]

The Rossi article is encouraging. Whatever happens, it is nice to know that ownership isn't content with mediocre results.

 

[IcedCapp]

trading Neal would be such a kick to Malkin's nuts

 

[Darth Vitale]

MOD NOTICE:

Guys if you can, please take any rebuild / trade / "big moves" talk to the roster building thread where we have all kinds of numbers posted, etc. Let's keep this thread to the coaching and GM and owner stuff, and media quotes about same (since that's regrettably unavoidable in this situation). And if you want to talk about guys to let go (not in a trade), that's cool. Just trying to keep a bunch of stuff from being repeated in two places, making it hard to follow for those who want to discuss the separate topics.

The next few weeks are going to be a nuthouse in here so your help in keeping stuff on point in the respective threads is appreciated.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1670299

 

[ArcticFox]

trading Neal would be such a kick to Malkin's nuts

They both need two kicks each to the nuts. One for playing dirty all the time and one for being lazy on defence.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think Neal will get dealt as a shakeup move. I wouldn't move him unless we get a forward who better fits the role of nasty, net front presence, create your own offense type though.

As for Shero, he should have fired DB last summer. He tied his fate to DB IMO. He's a patient guy and that has it's positives. But he also hasn't built this team around Crosby and Malkin. He didn't communicate with DB with the Iggy fiasco. The Scuds contract is close to dead weight. And we have several players signed until they're 38 and several others with NTCs.

He deserves alot of blame for where this team is at. I agree with you in that this isn't even close to being all on DB. The players share some. And so does management.

I dont' trust him to begin a new era where we do right by Sid and Geno. Exploit our strengths. If he's kept, there isn't a doubt in my mind Trotz is here next. And the guy has zip experience coaching generational talents or even close to that level of player. And it'll give him all the more reason to build this team like he did in Nashville. Continue his emphasis on using valuable cap room on defense. And possibly alot of the same negatives from the previous coaching staff/system will carry over.

New set of eyes. New beginning if it were up to me.

At this point I would like to emphasize that the two biggest contracts Shero ever pursued were UFA offers to Hossa and Parise, both at higher prices than what they eventually signed for. The emphasis on defense in free agency wasn't by design, it was by necessity - those were the guys who would come here. Unless a different GM would have had the power to twist an elite UFA winger's arm into coming here, he wouldn't have been any more successful on that front.

This team failed on a number of fronts this year against an inferior team. We will see change, and nobody's got a better trading track record than Shero. If anybody knows of a GM who does, name him. Then check to see if he's available.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I MAY be OK with keeping Shero if he hired the right guy to coach this team, but I don't trust him to do that. I trust that he has his Nashville training and that's his model.

Oh how I wish Shero patterned himself after his dad.

The other BIG problem I have is the draft...I wanna start looking at Euro prospects thinking there's at least a CHANCE they might become Penguins property.

Just a chance, that's all I ask.

 

[Waffle Fries]

That quote in the media thread about how Shero said he wants to be a blue collar team and passed up on skilled players because they weren't "Penguins" was pretty damning to me.

I do like him, but the more I think about it, the more I think he should be gone.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

At this point I would like to emphasize that the two biggest contracts Shero ever pursued were UFA offers to Hossa and Parise, both at higher prices than what they eventually signed for. The emphasis on defense in free agency wasn't by design, it was by necessity - those were the guys who would come here. Unless a different GM would have had the power to twist a UFA's arm into coming here, he wouldn't have been any more successful on that front.

Wait, wait, wait... are you saying he signed Martin and Michalek (among others) because, um... he had to like... scratch that itch, or something? As in "Hey -- it's the offseason -- gotta hand out contracts! Don't really care to who!"

I know I'm being an ass but I sincerely don't understand.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Wait, wait, wait... are you saying he signed Martin and Michalek (among others) because, um... he had to like... scratch that itch, or something? As in "Hey -- it's the offseason -- gotta hand out contracts! Don't really care to who!"

I know I'm being an ass but I sincerely don't understand.

Martin and Michalek were high-end defensemen in a free agent class that had no high-end forwards. We had the money to spend to the cap.

If there aren't any high-end forwards coming here in UFA, I'm not sure I see the point in leaving cap space unused. We weren't likely going to be a better team in '10-'11 if we had opted to sign nobody or mediocre wingers instead of Martin and Michalek that off-season. You play with the hands you're dealt.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Ugh. I really want a full clearing of house. Don't trust Shero to do what's right by Sid and Geno. And hiring a coach who hasn't had much of a track record with talented forwards is a shaky start.

Honestly, this is where I'm at. In fact, I want Shero gone almost as much as I want Bylsma gone (not quite, but getting there).

I just think that Shero's had long enough to turn this franchise into yearly Cup contender, but instead has refused to build around its two best players and has transformed this team into a regular season champion and playoff failure.

Bylsma's responsible for how badly structured the team looks on the ice, the lack of adjustments, the lack of showing intensity, etc. But Shero's responsible for Crosby not having a star winger throughout his career other than 2 months of Hossa, and constantly bringing aboard guys like Glass, Adams, Pyatt, and Kobasew and thinking that's adding depth.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

That quote in the media thread about how Shero said he wants to be a blue collar team and passed up on skilled players because they weren't "Penguins" was pretty damning to me.

I do like him, but the more I think about it, the more I think he should be gone.

Yeah, if it had been talent with a "blue collar" work ethic it would be a different story. But he then went on to build this mess of a team that boasts some notably lazy players, one of them had an A... and was a defenseman.

The whole Penguin player philosophy was and is ********.

 

[ColePens]

Last year we all knew DB was gone and he was re-signed. 25% of me definitely thinks the idiotic decision could happen. But Jaded made a good pt about ticket sales the other day. It could be the final straw to a corporate team.

I'm just going to be cautiously optimistic about the next 5 days.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I wasn't sure Bylsma was going to be gone last year, but I was hopeful. I'm pretty damn sure this time.

 

[Michael8771*]

TIOPS (yes i know its tiops) is reporting that Shero is looking to keep Bylsma! Get both of these clowns out of here ASAP!!

Yeah, well that's not happening. I can't believe that RS would say such a thing. If he did he deserves more criticism than DB. And that's obviously quite a bit.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Last year we all knew DB was gone and he was re-signed. 25% of me definitely thinks the idiotic decision could happen. But Jaded made a good pt about ticket sales the other day. It could be the final straw to a corporate team.

I'm just going to be cautiously optimistic about the next 5 days.

This is why I sound like such a pessimist. I just know there's still a chance Bylsma returns. And if that happens, I honestly, truly don't know what I'm going to do.

I'm a hockey fan, and I'm a Penguins fan. But when my passion for the sport is ruined by a coach I simply can't stand, and my enjoyment of Penguins games is ruined because of said coach, I honestly don't know if I can tune in next season.

 

[mpp9]

At this point I would like to emphasize that the two biggest contracts Shero ever pursued were UFA offers to Hossa and Parise, both at higher prices than what they eventually signed for. The emphasis on defense in free agency wasn't by design, it was by necessity - those were the guys who would come here. Unless a different GM would have had the power to twist an elite UFA winger's arm into coming here, he wouldn't have been any more successful on that front.

This team failed on a number of fronts this year against an inferior team. We will see change, and nobody's got a better trading track record than Shero. If anybody knows of a GM who does, name him. Then check to see if he's available.

Shero's idea of building around Sid and Geno is longshot chance offers to highly coveted elite players. Drafting a 3C with his #2 overall pick. And focusing on D-men in the draft from there on out. The guy chose bringing in Scuds for 4 years over offering a contract to MacArthur for 2 years, when we had our coach just prior call Despres top 4 ready. And then this deadline, he tried to clean up his mess at forward by aggressively pursuing Kesler. Then when that fell through, we went in the playoffs with a severe disadvantage up front relative to the other contenders. Christ, we had to roll Sid/Geno together against our 1st round opponent.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Martin and Michalek were high-end defensemen in a free agent class that had no high-end forwards. We had the money to spend to the cap.

If there aren't any high-end forwards coming here in UFA, I'm not sure I see the point in leaving cap space unused. We weren't likely going to be a better team in '10-'11 if we had opted to sign nobody or mediocre wingers instead of Martin and Michalek that off-season. You play with the hands you're dealt.

I disagree. As I did then.

I thought one was more than sufficient. Even at the time when the team's defensive depth was less than it is, now. I'll never, ever believe in signing players for the sake of signing them. I understand that UFA signings are in some ways a "free asset" but I think that's a path of rapidly diminishing returns if you have no real plans for those players.

And obviously at least with one of those guys... that was very much the case.

I would have much rather gunned for their main guy on the blueline (Martin, I assume) and take a flier or two on one of these "mediocre wingers," instead. Since that has long been an actual team need. Maybe one of them would have panned out. Tough to find out if your only forays into that frightening land are the likes of Kobasew, Comrie, Boychuck, etc.

 

[penguins2946*]

There is no chance Bylsma returns. It's not going to happen. Lemieux wanted him fired last year. If Shero tries to stand in Mario's way again this year, Shero will be joining Bylsma in the unemployment line. There is no chance Bylsma is coach here next year. None.

 

[lastcupever75]

Believe what you want.

But it is a business, and you don't want to pay a guy 12 million for scoring 1 goal in 13 playoff games. That's just not acceptable. That money can be better used elsewhere.

correct

and he fills the seats at consol. directly putting money in the pockets of mario and burkle

2 shrewd business men

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Last year we all knew DB was gone and he was re-signed. 25% of me definitely thinks the idiotic decision could happen. But Jaded made a good pt about ticket sales the other day. It could be the final straw to a corporate team.

I'm just going to be cautiously optimistic about the next 5 days.

I'm all too aware of this. This time it really looks like the **** hit the fan with the fans and the media, though.