Its so clear we have to get some grindyness (toughness and thugness)

[REALTALK81]

Great coaches (in any sport) adjust in game to try and find a solution. Babcock pulls Andersen after 7 go in. No real changes to the lines. Try anything. Put Moore with Tavares and Marner. Put Kapanen on the third line with Kerfoot and Mikheyev. If He doesn't have the attention of the room, give Keefe a shot.

 

[Hustlr]

Great coaches (in any sport) adjust in game to try and find a solution. Babcock pulls Andersen after 7 go in. No real changes to the lines. Try anything. Put Moore with Tavares and Marner. Put Kapanen on the third line with Kerfoot and Mikheyev. If He doesn't have the attention of the room, give Keefe a shot.

Not a single line adjustment.

I think my biggest gripe has been the 4th line coming out at the worst possible times, even though it hasn’t burnt us that much.

 

[kevsh]

I think it's less about toughness than a team that consistently makes very bad decisions. (Which is not to say adding a little toughness would be a bad thing, it's just not the sole answer)

Case in point, when Matthews/Nylander/Johnsson are on the ice, why is Ceci taking shots from the point? Assuming he's out there with Reilly at the time, he's the 5th choice out of 5 you want shooting.

In their own end, instead of following the model of the Blues who are the blueprint for short passes in their own end to clear the zone, the Leafs have blueliners banking the puck right into the neutral zone where there exactly zero Leaf forwards - or, worse, making long outlet passes that every opponent in the league knows is coming. Net result is they they are a turnover machine in their own zone which is recipe for disaster against teams like TB (And since Leaf forwards play so high in their own zone, short passes aren't possible. So changing that would be a first step.)

When dumping the puck into their opponent's end Leaf forwards are almost without fail second (or third) on it. Pretty easy for an opposing defender to retrieve the puck, take his time and find an open man. They have speed to burn to get to it first or at least pressure the defender - it's not about toughness (though obviously that would help), but the primary focus is getting to the puck first or at least limiting the defenders options. Worse still, their dump-ins are often so poorly timed that there is no forward ready to chase (excluding line changes obviously).

They still need a shutdown defenceman who can handle top pairing minutes. Put him with Reilly, Muzzin/Barrie stay and drop Ceci to play with Sandin now, Dermott when he returns. Will be very difficult (read: costly) to obtain so it won't happen anytime soon, but it's still what they need. This defensive group isn't going to take them any deeper into the playoffs than years past, so unless Leaf forwards take a crash course on defensive zone play soon we'll grumbling next Summer about another year wasted with a young, talented core.

 

[REALTALK81]

Not a single line adjustment.

I think my biggest gripe has been the 4th line coming out at the worst possible times, even though it hasn’t burnt us that much.

It's been like that for a while. Remember Hyman taking draws against Bergeron? Babcock doesn't understand that his favorite players don't belong in certain situations. Treats the team like an Instant Pot. Set it and forget it.

 

[KuleminFan41]

People are overreacting to the Tampa game far too much. Its 5 games in, the Leafs certainly have the team capable enough to ring off 3 straight convincing wins . The last thing you want to do, is overreact to a loss and make changes based on just that. Even the Blues got shelled twice in the finals(5-1 and 7-2) and still won the cup. Sometimes, you just have a bad night.

 

[Stephen]

The Leafs need an injection of a Tom Wilson, JT Miller or Tyler Bertuzzi at the mid rage to replace one of Kapanen or Johnsson, and if we're talking about franchise altering moves, turn Mitch Marner into Matthew Tkachuk.

But the real difference maker is if they made a true investment on finding a workhorse 6'4" two way defenseman in the Pietrangelo mold and then filled in the gaps with the next Ron Hainsey. I don't really think Barrie is what we need. And Ceci looks very shaky.

 

[Superstar]

View attachment 263279

I would appreciate it if we could thug it up and took a 0:05 (minute) major last night!

 

[Superstar]

Boston and Tampa know how to defend. Leafs clearly do not. Stick checking in front of our net is not enough.

Columbus ain't so hot right now...Dubas should try to pry Josh Anderson from them...that'll be a good start.

 

[Crysis]

Kapanen can buy you two pretty effective grinders for the third/fourth line with his 3.2m hit.

 

[Polaris1010]

Yes a coaching change could inject some life into this team but I fear they will eventually return to doing what they are doing now.

Fire the coach.

I realized now they will fire Babcock

To fire Babcock is the worst move to make. That is why Babcock is good as gone. The Toronto Maple Leafs will always do the wrong thing.

The main goal of coaching in the NHL is to teach defense. Matthews wrist shot, a Nylander rush, Marner's vision, that is not taught by NHL coaches. The player has it or he doesn't.

But defense, how the forwards play without the puck, protect the puck, get it in deep, Babcock has done well coaching. He has not reached everybody on the team with his teachings, but this team the past two years won a lot of games, and they were not run and gun types of wins.

On game day, the most important part is matching of lines. Babcock does that well too. That is NHL level coaching.

Babcock is a good coach. Teaches defense. Matches lines. The results of his coaching career speaks for itself.

That is why the Toronto Maple Leafs will fire Babcock. The morons in management value usage and total ice time. Those are not important. Matching lines is important. Being in the right position on the forecheck is important.

Too bad for Mikey.

The drought continues. The Cubs did not win a championship for over 100 years. The Leafs will be the same.

 

[Duffman955]

People are overreacting to the Tampa game far too much. Its 5 games in, the Leafs certainly have the team capable enough to ring off 3 straight convincing wins . The last thing you want to do, is overreact to a loss and make changes based on just that. Even the Blues got shelled twice in the finals(5-1 and 7-2) and still won the cup. Sometimes, you just have a bad night.

5 games?

Team has played like butthole for almost a calender year.

0.500 in 2019

 

[Coachcorner]

Washington
St.Louis
Boston
Vegas

All teams that play a hard nose game. All teams that have skilled players surrounded by grit

All teams that made deep playoff runs

Yeah that's a hard list right thurr like chingy said back in the day. Great examples. Pittsburgh had some hardness also when they had theirs, a lil bit of that hornqvist power etc in front of the goal etc suckas. But yeah your list is hard sire ain't nuthing to it.

Also the uh other guy listed some of our great players who gave us deep playoff runs all the way to the conference finals. We then had guys like nieuwendyk, sundin(strong as a bull, tavares comparable in some ways), Tucker, domi, roberts gary etc corson, Owen Nolan etc. Real hard nose suckas who bled that dirt. Mayne they was warriors. My thang and angle is when I watched the whole scenario: These was the players who lift the whole audience in a gladiator type of way into the game.... they got the whole crowd going and the TEAM of course. They made a couple of real deep runs. My thang is: Toronto is a city that needs that one thug getting it going, everybody going. Cause the crowd often especially nowadays is kinda quiet. Compared to many other arenas is real quiet. Toronto is the most legendary ice hockey city, hockeys mecca. You gotta have a couple of those thugs grinding that talk and energy. They get everybody going and give that last boost the city and the team needs. I've watched the game in this city for a long time so that hasn't changed. The game has changed but the city hasn't. This team needs what other teams have. It's real weird lookin at how dubas do, cause he ain't getting us those real winners and doers. We need at least one, I hope for two of those goony thugs. Ritchie, Kassian, Reaves, Carrier, ... etc. Simmonds hell even Lucic (not welcome with that dollar bill though), but others like Ferland etc. Brendan Lemieux would be the exactamundo type for us. There are many more. Why the hell we won't get some.

Theres' so much intelligent discussion going on in this thread so it's difficult to bring anythang new to the table. But there was my angle on the whole thang this time. Nice to see so many young and older fans discussing this here. Many great points and I've taking it all in real nicely. Lets keep it going. They will learn from all this and make the changes. And if he doesn't..... mayne he out. Might take some time, but if a team is built the wrong softly way everytime......... its go time baby.
Thanks for the real comments, y'all is treally knowing this game and what we need and don't. :leaf: :

 

[CincoHolio]

People are overreacting to the Tampa game far too much. Its 5 games in, the Leafs certainly have the team capable enough to ring off 3 straight convincing wins . The last thing you want to do, is overreact to a loss and make changes based on just that. Even the Blues got shelled twice in the finals(5-1 and 7-2) and still won the cup. Sometimes, you just have a bad night.

I'm not defending the team's play of late or even Babcock for that matter, but this post brings up a very valid point. People need to chill this early into the season. Time will tell if Babcock becomes this year's Mike Yeo but this is not the point in the season to make that assessment. As far as the team make up goes - Dubas hasn't painted himself into a corner. Half of our D is on expiring contracts. Trades can still be made. The guy has been on the (GM) job exactly 1 year. Give the guy a chance to prove (or not) that he has a vision beyond 1 freaking season's body of work.

 

[MarkT]

Avs fan coming in peace (I also like the Leafs).

I was honestly shocked when I found out that the Leafs had added Barrie and Kerfoot to the team, since they were probably the two most butter-soft guys on the Avs. I love Barrie, but he's the last guy you want covering a guy in front of the net. Then Dubas went and systematically removed nearly every tough, gritty player from the roster. Seriously, outside of Muzzin, who on the roster would you want covering guys in front of your net? Who on the roster is likely to throw a hit when it's the best play available? Who on the team thrives when battling in front of the opposition net? Are there even 5 guys that fit those descriptions?

Honestly, watching the Tampa game, it's clear that the Leafs were dominated in a lot of ways, but one of them was definitely physically.

It's also funny watching all of the people arguing against the idea that the Leafs need more toughness. For them it always seems to be just about size or just about hits or just about fighting. It's not about that. It's about having more players who play like Hyman and Muzzin. That's all.

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Meh he could move AJ and Kap, Ceci even later in the year. I think changes need to start with the coach though. I don't think these guys want to go to war with babcock at the helm

Or Is it Babcock wants tougher player(s) but Dubas ain't budging.

 

[Nylander88]

Columbus ain't so hot right now...Dubas should try to pry Josh Anderson from them...that'll be a good start.

Id love Josh Anderson. At 1.85m salary and due for a good raise next year though...that trade would have to start with Kapanen or Johnsson basically. He'd look good in Blue and White though

 

[moon111]

Or Is it Babcock wants tougher player(s) but Dubas ain't budging.

Tough players don't show up on the spreadsheet.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Or Is it Babcock wants tougher player(s) but Dubas ain't budging.

We have a disconnect between the way snowflakes see things and reality. Dubad never played hockey.

 

[Morbo]

Great coaches (in any sport) adjust in game to try and find a solution. Babcock pulls Andersen after 7 go in. No real changes to the lines. Try anything. Put Moore with Tavares and Marner. Put Kapanen on the third line with Kerfoot and Mikheyev. If He doesn't have the attention of the room, give Keefe a shot.

yeah, let's focus on the real problems the team has, not the popular pretend ones.

 

[KuleminFan41]

5 games?

Team has played like butthole for almost a calender year.

0.500 in 2019

What happened last season, doesn't matter anymore. Go look at the standings, do you think Buffalo and Detroit are going to finish ahead of Tampa and Boston? I mean, it must be considering 5 games is all it takes to gauge how a season will go, right?

I'm not defending the team's play of late or even Babcock for that matter, but this post brings up a very valid point. People need to chill this early into the season. Time will tell if Babcock becomes this year's Mike Yeo but this is not the point in the season to make that assessment. As far as the team make up goes - Dubas hasn't painted himself into a corner. Half of our D is on expiring contracts. Trades can still be made. The guy has been on the (GM) job exactly 1 year. Give the guy a chance to prove (or not) that he has a vision beyond 1 freaking season's body of work.

I'm baffled that people are already dismissing this team after 5 games, especially considering Tampa didn't start off hot either. I think last season is proof enough that you're never really out of it. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the Leafs to put themselves into a hole like St.Louis but its 5 games, not 30. Another thing about last season, Buffalo had the hottest start and ended up missing the playoffs , so I'm not sure why people think there's a special formula to how you start off a season. I mean, the same people complaining about these last 2-3 games, are the same ones who complained the Leafs played " too well" in the first half of last season and that some how it invalidates their position in the standings because they didn't keep it up the entire season. People need to just relax

 

[Socreges]

Fire the coach.

I realized now they will fire Babcock

To fire Babcock is the worst move to make. That is why Babcock is good as gone. The Toronto Maple Leafs will always do the wrong thing.

The main goal of coaching in the NHL is to teach defense. Matthews wrist shot, a Nylander rush, Marner's vision, that is not taught by NHL coaches. The player has it or he doesn't.

But defense, how the forwards play without the puck, protect the puck, get it in deep, Babcock has done well coaching. He has not reached everybody on the team with his teachings, but this team the past two years won a lot of games, and they were not run and gun types of wins.

On game day, the most important part is matching of lines. Babcock does that well too. That is NHL level coaching.

Babcock is a good coach. Teaches defense. Matches lines. The results of his coaching career speaks for itself.

That is why the Toronto Maple Leafs will fire Babcock. The morons in management value usage and total ice time. Those are not important. Matching lines is important. Being in the right position on the forecheck is important.

Too bad for Mikey.

The drought continues. The Cubs did not win a championship for over 100 years. The Leafs will be the same.

Father said Mike isn't the right coach for this team. He said he's constantly outcoached by younger and smarter coaches. He makes 0 in game adjustments and doesn't manage to play his best players consistently. Father said he has a stable full of young stallions that should be unleashed and allowed to gallop at full pace each game but he doesn't. He said that if the Leafs replace Mike with someone more progressive like Keefe we can win the Cup this season and next. Back to back!

 

[TheBeastCoast]

We did not lose by 4 goals against Tampa because they were more "gritty" then we were we lost because we played like garbage, got bad goaltending and gave them wide open looks. Just the same as we didn't lose to Boston last year because they were "tougher" we lost because the players we had didn't show up to play and match the intensity. We have the players in that room to beat literally any team in the league...maybe instead of looking outside the room to place blame as to what we don't have look at what we do have. It is enough to expect them to be able to win. Period.

 

[Jozay]

Adjustments arent Babcocks strong suit, to the say the least.

 

[rumman]

Out hitting is one thing. Winning puck battles, willing to take a hit to make a play is another. Dubas has cornered himself cap wise and skill wise. Will be hard to change the chemistry of this team now. It is full steam ahead with most of these players.

changes in managements thinking will have to wait until Dubas is sent packing, I'd say that'll add up to two wasted years..........at least.

 

[rumman]

Meh he could move AJ and Kap, Ceci even later in the year. I think changes need to start with the coach though. I don't think these guys want to go to war with babcock at the helm

before the team can address the lack of physicality it needs to admit it's lacking said physicality, I wouldn't hold your breathe expecting this GM's view to change anytime soon. Perfect example of what's lacking on this team is when JT was leveled and not a player came to his defense, every team knows this and I'd expect all the "elite" offensive players are in for a season full of cheap shots.