Its so clear we have to get some grindyness (toughness and thugness)

Dave92

Registered User
Oct 9, 2019
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Dont worry, paying for toughness is a market inefficiency that Dubas identified.

How did he come to that conclusion you ask? ...

God, God spoke to Kyle and told him that despite almost irrefutable evidce to the contrary, tough physical players are no longer a necessary part of a Stanley Cup contending team.
 

OVO16

#WeTheNorth
Apr 16, 2017
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The last two Stanley Cups were played by

St.Louis Blues vs Boston Bruins
Washington Capitals vs Las Vegas Knights

But I’m sure there’s people here who still want more Marincin’s on this team
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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See, the good thing is, there are several teams out there who would love to trade some grit and depth for a star player. Dubas has a team where with just a few moves, can easily change the entire make of the team by making a few trades to surround the core with bangers and stuff.

However what does that even look like? He got Muzzin, who was one of the most physical D out west before he got here, and has slowly stopped hitting. Ceci is not soft in the slightest, will always block a shot and take a hit to make a play. Does adding a guy like Edmonston to the bottom pairing really make a difference?

Does bringing in more Komarov's, Martin's, and Polaks, who we all wanted gone, really make this a better team? Of course not. They would need to get some top 6 guys who play like grinders, which are so rare they never get dealt. A Wilson, Ferland, etc doesn't make the team tough to play against by themselves, and would cost a Nylander + to return.

People are suggesting to get a team full of grinders and plug in a few stars and see what happens, when we have a team filled with essentially top 6 skilled players and top 4 D.

1 or 2 guys won't make a difference. This is coaching IMO. Remember in pre-season Matthews throwing hits? Now all these guys stop hitting.

It's clear that before the roster is dismantled for "grit", that you want to see the team with a different coach to see if he can get the best out of them.

Who are these people? I have heard that the team is soft and needs a few "heavier" players. Matthew Tkachuk would be a player I would start with but Flames realise what they have in him.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
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Meh he could move AJ and Kap, Ceci even later in the year. I think changes need to start with the coach though. I don't think these guys want to go to war with babcock at the helm

We have the roster to win on skill. No idea if we have the heart. No idea if we have the coach. I do know the roster is largely rentals. If this team folds a few more times like this, I may just hope we slide out of playoff contention and sell the rentals and regroup. Make some moves and I don't mean just roster. This team should never fold to TB like that.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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Yes a coaching change could inject some life into this team but I fear they will eventually return to doing what they are doing now.

We do not know whether the players have checked out on Babs. If they have, fire him. If not, Babs is not the problem. I would give this cast some time to gel and get Hyman and Dermott back. How they respond tomorrow night will be interesting.

This could be the wrong mix of core players. But if it is, AM & JT aren't going anywhere, and Nylander could be a bargain....... bt I'd rather try a coaching change first.
 
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OVO16

#WeTheNorth
Apr 16, 2017
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Once Hyman comes back... move Moore back down to the 4th line. Waive Shore and call up Agostino.

Moore - Gauthier - Agostino

Run that 4th line and see the energy they create
 

supermann_98

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May 8, 2002
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Agree about Petan. He should be put on waivers and never play another game in the blue and white.

Also agree we need a big physical winger who can hit and score the occasional goal.
All our forwards - even the big ones - are softies, and the Marlies roster, outside of maybe Marchment, are a bunch of softies.

What I wouldn't give to have one of the Tkachuk kids on this team.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
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This could be the wrong mix of core players. But if it is, AM & JT aren't going anywhere, and Nylander could be a bargain....... bt I'd rather try a coaching change first.

I would move Marner or Nylander. Many are giddy on Nylander early this season but I do not think his game translates in the playoffs. Many will say I am wrong but time will tell.
 
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inthe6ix

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Oct 3, 2008
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Grindyness? Grit? Yes, we could use more of it since it is obvious we were not heavy enough on the puck.

But we got owned last night in all facets, plain and simple. There are no excuses when you lose that badly to the better team on the night; you just tip your hat and try to get better for the next time you face them.
 

Leafsfan74

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
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It's clear what Dubas strategy is. He's convinced that he knows what is needed to succeed. I don't think Don Cherry as GM would work though, this isn't the league today no matter what some try to say (anyone remember the Ice Dogs record in the early 2000's when he was part owner?).

The current crop has always needed some jam, this hasn't changed and it won't change. It has to come within them. We've seen many talented young teams, as they had in Edmonton, that never dig deep and win. Dubas seems to believe that as they mature, they will be more physical, confident, whatever. There is some truth to this, but it won't suddenly turn them into a bunch of power forwards.

Let's not discuss fairy tales, this is the team. He might tinker with some 3rd or 4th line pick ups, and you can never have enough stay at home, physical D men, but let's face it, due to the Cap, this is the team along with Hyman. It's early, let's see how the season turns out.

This team is good enough to win it all...on paper...
 
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inthe6ix

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Oct 3, 2008
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Agree about Petan. He should be put on waivers and never play another game in the blue and white.

Also agree we need a big physical winger who can hit and score the occasional goal.
All our forwards - even the big ones - are softies, and the Marlies roster, outside of maybe Marchment, are a bunch of softies.

What I wouldn't give to have one of the Tkachuk kids on this team.

Or even a Josh Anderson!
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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Richmond Hill, ON
Agree about Petan. He should be put on waivers and never play another game in the blue and white.

Also agree we need a big physical winger who can hit and score the occasional goal.
All our forwards - even the big ones - are softies, and the Marlies roster, outside of maybe Marchment, are a bunch of softies.

What I wouldn't give to have one of the Tkachuk kids on this team.

Thought Agostino had a spot on the 4th line once he signed for 2 years. Archibald could be that winger based on his play in the pre-season.
 
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OVO16

#WeTheNorth
Apr 16, 2017
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OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS WE NEED TO BE TOUGHER

lol here we go. Didn’t take long.

Example 1 of a poster who’s clearly ignorant in the subject and misreading what the basis of the thread is all about
 
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TakeTheBody

Registered User
Jan 10, 2018
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The only way it involves grit is having the same commitment to defense as you do to offense. That takes grit. Using your body to block a shot, take a hit, make a play. If you don't have that you can bring in all the gud pros you want. You will not win.
 

OVO16

#WeTheNorth
Apr 16, 2017
9,941
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The only way it involves grit is having the same commitment to defense as you do to offense. That takes grit. Using your body to block a shot, take a hit, make a play. If you don't have that you can bring in all the gud pros you want. You will not win.

I wish I can like this post 100 times
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
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October Andy is back but is it possible that we need better goaltending and more toughness ??

It wouldn't change a single thing. Nothing about the start of this season is based on lack of physicality.

If the Leafs get a handful of average saves, they are probably at 2 more wins than they are currently at and nobody would be talking about it.
 
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Leafsfan74

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
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.870 goaltending through 5 games and league average shooting percentage

OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS WE NEED TO BE TOUGHER


You are right. I think it's always the reaction, not just in Toronto by the way. As fans you think "do these guys even care?!". You see some "toughness" on display and it makes you feel better, doesn't change the outcome.

They've been in every game, even this one when they took a 2-1 lead. As often happens, the penalties killed them, as they did in Montreal, that game stung as it should have been won. Then the bad penalty and a penalty shot.

No team can overcome sub par goaltending. It's early.
 
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SHANNYPLAN

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Nov 24, 2016
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Leafs - Jets
Cody Ceci
For
Adam Lowry

Leafs - Islanders
Scott Mayfield, 4th
For
Alexander Kerfoot

Johnsson - Matthews - Nylander
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Micheyev - Lowry - Kapanen
Korshkov - Gauthier - Moore

Rielly - Dermott
Muzzin - Barrie

Sandin - Mayfield
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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Richmond Hill, ON
It wouldn't change a single thing. Nothing about the start of this season is based on lack of physicality.

If the Leafs get a handful of average saves, they are probably at 2 more wins than they are currently and nobody would be talking about it.

Agree but the "good" Andy masks the warts this team has. Better to recognise it and deal with it earlier than later. The team lacks a big shutdown dman that can make Andy's life easier.
 
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