Its so clear we have to get some grindyness (toughness and thugness)

[Coachcorner]

Period mayne. Y'all seen how petan - gauthier - spezza plays for the fourth "line".... Line, give me a break. Never has there been such a pretencious line, soft, small, lost at the same time. Takin penalties with soft dirt, allowing goals with minuses, not scoring, not doing what a fourth line should. Energize suckas, hit peeps, give that thug talk, give that love and money, get that paper baby. We ain't have dat. Petan for one should be gone for life, never play for the maple leafs again. He ain't enough period. Spezza... should be benched for a long time, give a long sentence. Now get some Lou type of a sucka. That kassian, reaves, ritchie brendan lemieux type. Claude's son. That exactly the type we need to energize our bunnies. Y'all know I'm right too, deep in your heart. Some of' ya'll just ain't saying it out loud. Well I'ma say that. Make a trade or fire some otha sucka. Get me a fool mayne. We need that ONE thug. It ain't much, but every treal team, I mean real team needs that one, true thug under God. We ain't succeeding in the playoffs once again, once again with purely based on softies who can play the great skilly goal game. That we can play, but not that boston stlouis type of dirt. Y'all better recognize. We need that one thug under God period.

That makes a team. :leaf: : :maple leaf:

Click to read more...

 

[hfman]

FOR YE THAT DEFEATS ONLY THEE, YE SHALL NEVER OVERCOME THE DARKNESS IN WHICH YE HERALDS THE INSTITUTIONAL FEAR OF HE, FOR HE IS THY TRUE TEST OF THE POWER OF TESTS

OH, HAIL YE

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

Until we get a new GM it won’t happen. Dubas doesn’t get it.. but why would he? He’s never played the game.

 

[tellermine]

Every team needs it grinders.
If they can score even better.
Skill and grindy can still be attributes in same player.

So Yeah. Leafs need it to.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Toughness? Grinders? Grit? You'll upset the "best leaf team of all time" crowd with those words.

 

[Trapper]

 

[ottomaddox]

Tampa pushed TOR around last night.

Tampa!

 

[LeafalCrusader]

We're the London Silly Nannies of the NHL

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I feel like every time we get outskilled people say we got pushed around and need grit lol

Hits were 26-17 in last nights game and Cernak/Palat combined for 9 of Tampa's 26.

Add Agostino to the roster and wait for Dermott and Hyman to come back (2 of out top 3 hitters last year) and bump Sandin to the A.

Then pull Timashov/Petan/Shore/Spezza out and you have your gap in physicality closed.

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Moore-Gauthier-Agostino

Rielly-Ceci
Muzzin-Barrie
Dermott-Holl

 

[ToneDog]

Out hitting is one thing. Winning puck battles, willing to take a hit to make a play is another. Dubas has cornered himself cap wise and skill wise. Will be hard to change the chemistry of this team now. It is full steam ahead with most of these players.

 

[ULF_55]

I feel like every time we get outskilled people say we got pushed around and need grit lol

Hits were 26-17 in last nights game and Cernak/Palat combined for 9 of Tampa's 26.

Add Agostino to the roster and wait for Dermott and Hyman to come back (2 of out top 3 hitters last year) and bump Sandin to the A.

Then pull Timashov/Petan/Shore/Spezza out and you have your gap in physicality closed.

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Moore-Gauthier-Agostino

Rielly-Ceci
Muzzin-Barrie
Dermott-Holl

Can't disagree with this line-up.

Even without Hyman and Dermott back if all lines could produce at even strength it might help.

NHL.com - Stats

I'd prefer Timashov until Hyman's ready, in my opinion he seems to understand what a 4th. liner has to do moreso than Petan.

Last night wasn't good for many, but it was particularly bad for the 4th. line taking 2 penalties where Tampa scored, with ease.

 

[sparxx87]

Out hitting is one thing. Winning puck battles, willing to take a hit to make a play is another. Dubas has cornered himself cap wise and skill wise. Will be hard to change the chemistry of this team now. It is full steam ahead with most of these players.

You’re right. Dubas will be given just enough time to dethrone JFJ as the worst hire in franchise history.

Brendan Shanahan is one of my favourite players of all time but he’s allowed this dysfunction on his watch. He hired Kyle Dubas so if anyone gets fired, it should be them IMO.

 

[Morbo]

What's clear is we need to get some goaltending.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Can't disagree with this line-up.

Even without Hyman and Dermott back if all line could produce at even strength it might help.

NHL.com - Stats

I'd prefer Timashov until Hyman's ready, in my opinion he seems to understand what a 4th. liner has to do moreso than Petan.

Last night wasn't good for many, but it was particularly bad for the 4th. line taking 2 penalties where Tampa scored, with ease.

This lineup would be just as physical as Boston and Tampa's lineups, especially since Boston lost Acciari, and we have the skill to match those guys as well.

Those teams have much better structure and coaching though.

 

[Rogue]

What's clear is we need to get some goaltending.

I fully support this. I posted my full opinion in the Andersen thread.
Gritt would be nice, but for me it seems like we lack winning spirit even more.

 

[OVO16]

This topic gets brought up every year and that proved that it’s clearly an issue that hasn’t gotten taken care of yet.

This thread also get derailed by the same posters with the same claims...completely misunderstanding the situation.

- No one wants Goons on this team
- No one is talking specifically about fighting or having the ability to fight
- You don’t even have to be a fierce hitter or a constant hitter

What we need is players who actually

-Play the body
-Tough along the boards
- Knock people over on their asses instead of poke checking
- Clear the front of the net with some purpose
-Stop with the soft flybys and actually crosscheck the other opposition player
-Play with some goddamn grit in your game
-Play with some damn attitude

- And yeah...having a 4th line that can skate, hit and create energy would be great too.

This team is marshmallow soft. We’re never gonna be playoff ready

 

[ShaneFalco]

Out hitting is one thing. Winning puck battles, willing to take a hit to make a play is another. Dubas has cornered himself cap wise and skill wise. Will be hard to change the chemistry of this team now. It is full steam ahead with most of these players.

Meh he could move AJ and Kap, Ceci even later in the year. I think changes need to start with the coach though. I don't think these guys want to go to war with babcock at the helm

 

[ULF_55]

What's clear is we need to get some goaltending.

And defending.

Shots were even, but Tampa definitely earned their luck on a couple and Andersen gifted them with at least one.

Man-o-man does the Tavares line get pummeled defensively though. And seriously, having marner practice face-offs on the PK?

 

[ToneDog]

This lineup would be just as physical as Boston and Tampa's lineups, especially since Boston lost Acciari, and we have the skill to match those guys as well.

Those teams have much better structure and coaching though.

Boston and Tampa know how to defend. Leafs clearly do not. Stick checking in front of our net is not enough.

 

[OVO16]

To continue from my post above...I actually think we have the personnel to be this kind of team.

But like others have mentioned....it’s a coaching/system problem. Babcock teams were never tough enough to begin With. It’s like he specifically asks players to play soft.

I’m done with Babcock.

 

[Kamiccolo]

See, the good thing is, there are several teams out there who would love to trade some grit and depth for a star player. Dubas has a team where with just a few moves, can easily change the entire make of the team by making a few trades to surround the core with bangers and stuff.

However what does that even look like? He got Muzzin, who was one of the most physical D out west before he got here, and has slowly stopped hitting. Ceci is not soft in the slightest, will always block a shot and take a hit to make a play. Does adding a guy like Edmonston to the bottom pairing really make a difference?

Does bringing in more Komarov's, Martin's, and Polaks, who we all wanted gone, really make this a better team? Of course not. They would need to get some top 6 guys who play like grinders, which are so rare they never get dealt. A Wilson, Ferland, etc doesn't make the team tough to play against by themselves, and would cost a Nylander + to return.

People are suggesting to get a team full of grinders and plug in a few stars and see what happens, when we have a team filled with essentially top 6 skilled players and top 4 D.

1 or 2 guys won't make a difference. This is coaching IMO. Remember in pre-season Matthews throwing hits? Now all these guys stop hitting.

It's clear that before the roster is dismantled for "grit", that you want to see the team with a different coach to see if he can get the best out of them.

 

[OVO16]

For example...I would have chosen Agostino Over Shore to make the team. I would have kept Gravel over Marincin/Holl

Moore - Mathews - Nylander
Johnsson - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kapanen
Agostino - Gauthier - Shore

Reilly - Ceci
Muzzin - Barrie
Sandin - Gravel

 

[GoonieFace]

To continue from my post above...I actually think we have the personnel to be this kind of team.

But like others have mentioned....it’s a coaching/system problem. Babcock teams were never tough enough to begin With. It’s like he specifically asks players to play soft.

I’m done with Babcock.

I think this is the exact opposite actually. He loves his Hyman type players, always has. He has none. Dubas has provided him with a 4th line of butter soft Spezza and Petan types. Gauthier is actually throwing his body around a little more. Would love to see a real 4th line on this team. The defence lacks physicality (minus Muzzin). No intimidation what so ever. I mean Shattenkirk just waltzed right to the net.

 

[ToneDog]

Meh he could move AJ and Kap, Ceci even later in the year. I think changes need to start with the coach though. I don't think these guys want to go to war with babcock at the helm

Yes a coaching change could inject some life into this team but I fear they will eventually return to doing what they are doing now.

We do not know whether the players have checked out on Babs. If they have, fire him. If not, Babs is not the problem. I would give this cast some time to gel and get Hyman and Dermott back. How they respond tomorrow night will be interesting.

 

[thewave]

Tampa pushed TOR around last night.

Tampa!

Yes that was concerning.